The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (65 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

martcov

Well-Known Member
Didn’t say blaming Brexit either did it and the latter is an issue clearly given the massive investment in advanced diesel technology.

The British car industry sells a relatively small amount of cars into Europe so it’s impact is always minimal and the profit impact of devaluation in companies like JLR have been significant in a positive way.

I’ve PM’d a few people on here regarding the impact and reasons for this - sorry I don’t trust you and Tony not to make capital out of it.

‘The car giant is blaming Brexit’ Is the Birmingham Mail lying?

Where do we get the car parts? Some estimates say a large portion of car parts are made in the EU.

I thought JLR are going to invest big time in electric cars in Coventry or near by? Or is that going to be in Slovenia if it goes bandy here?

Why would we make capital of your logical fact based arguments? I would be quiet, if your arguments are convincing.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
You’ve missed something out haven’t you Tony

How would you know? Other than me stating that it was part of the statement. You did notice that I pointed out it was only part of the statement? You’ve hardly cracked the enigma code there as I’ve already told you I’ve missed parts of the statement out. I had already provided a link to the statement in full as reported in the Birmingham Mail though so technically no, I haven’t left anything out.

You’re not the sharpest tool in the box are you? Although you are a tool. Probably explains why the statement is above you’re pay grade.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
What do companies do to mitigate exchange rate impacts Tony?

I’ll get that. They buy or sell forward, which is costly and in effect, a form of insurance. That’s one argument for the EURO. It saves direct costs for businesses throughout Europe.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
What do companies do to mitigate exchange rate impacts Tony?
The statement doesn’t actually mention exchange rates. It’s concerns are with tariffs. Again something you would know if you actually read the statement released by JLR. Maybe it hasn’t reached the toilet cleaners yet? You could always try the link I provided if you want a heads up.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Is it because of brexit though? I don’t know major amounts but it seems sales have been down for a while and Diesels are being taxed to death currently when from what I know diesels aren’t even that bad on emissions.

In Germany Diesel is far cheaper than Petrol. Germany believed for years that Diesels were more environmentally friendly and reduced the tax on Diesel.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
In Germany Diesel is far cheaper than Petrol. Germany believed for years that Diesels were more environmentally friendly and reduced the tax on Diesel.

Diesels sales in Germany fell by 10% last year
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Diesels sales in Germany fell by 10% last year

I can imagine. You can’t get rid of old Diesels now. Although the blue Euro 6 ( I think ) should be ok. Mein is and I have to use AdBlue. Mine is leased so I shouldn’t lose any value even if Diesels are not moving.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I can imagine. You can’t get rid of old Diesels now. Although the blue Euro 6 ( I think ) should be ok. Mein is and I have to use AdBlue. Mine is leased so I shouldn’t lose any value even if Diesels are not moving.

Er I’m talking sales of new diesel cars
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I’ll get that. They buy or sell forward, which is costly and in effect, a form of insurance. That’s one argument for the EURO. It saves direct costs for businesses throughout Europe.

Yeah a common currency was always the aim of the Third reich - never a great role model economically or socially in my view
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Er I’m talking sales of new diesel cars

As I said, I can imagine. Everyone is talking negatively about diesels ... except the salespersons who are praising the modern “blue” engines. Some people are not listening and fear total diesel bans in some cities or some parts of cities. If they ban diesels on the main through road here where I live, then it will be a real pain for diesel drivers. As I said, what about the fxxking ships? Local elections in May and some election posters already have “hands off our diesels” and are blaming the greens. Some people say that nitrogen oxide is present in the atmosphere anyway and that the whole thing is exaggerated. I am neutral on that, but can see here that the ships are polluting the air in this city.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Yeah a common currency was always the aim of the Third reich - never a great role model economically or socially in my view

Really? I have some Belgian third Reich notes, but they are francs. Third Reich French coins were made of aluminium and were still francs. I suspect the main aim of the Third Reich was to make Germany great again and be a powerful nation state, a common right wing goal and more in line with Brexit. Not interested in multi lateral cooperation. As you say not a great model, economically or socially and can only end in tears as with the Third Reich.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
No. I’m telling you what the Union who was involved in negotiations to save the plant and jobs said. They said “One of the most attractive natural features of the plant was its paint shop - fitted to produce van-sized vehicles - which would reduce costs”.
And I'm asking you if it was worth what you call a massive gamble or build one elsewhere. After all money talks. So it shows that money will be invested here.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
As I said, I can imagine. Everyone is talking negatively about diesels ... except the salespersons who are praising the modern “blue” engines. Some people are not listening and fear total diesel bans in some cities or some parts of cities. If they ban diesels on the main through road here where I live, then it will be a real pain for diesel drivers. As I said, what about the fxxking ships? Local elections in May and some election posters already have “hands off our diesels” and are blaming the greens. Some people say that nitrogen oxide is present in the atmosphere anyway and that the whole thing is exaggerated. I am neutral on that, but can see here that the ships are polluting the air in this city.
So is large vehicles having to have petrol engines or is it Brexit to blame for sales being down?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
So is large vehicles having to have petrol engines or is it Brexit to blame for sales being down?

bit of both, and as far as JLRs concerned the two saloons they've released are dog shit. Perfect storm.
To be fair, the automotive industry used to have one of these down turns every 3 or 4 years. We've had a really good spell but it'd crashing down to earth with a bang.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
bit of both, and as far as JLRs concerned the two saloons they've released are dog shit. Perfect storm.
To be fair, the automotive industry used to have one of these down turns every 3 or 4 years. We've had a really good spell but it'd crashing down to earth with a bang.

Which saloons?
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
JLR vehicles are fantastic , I got rid of that German shite a year ago and love my Range Rover . Best car I have ever had . It feels and drives so different to a Q5.

The best bit is you don’t look like a Kid driving on PCP deal
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
What did I call a massive gamble?
If nothing on here was questioned people would believe that Brexit was to blame for land rover sales being down and they only build vans in Luton because they couldn't paint them anywhere else. Nothing to do with EU rules and diesel engines. And too expensive or whatever reason they couldn't paint vans elsewhere. Spare parts? Many of them come from the EU.....
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
If nothing on here was questioned people would believe that Brexit was to blame for land rover sales being down and they only build vans in Luton because they couldn't paint them anywhere else. Nothing to do with EU rules and diesel engines. And too expensive or whatever reason they couldn't paint vans elsewhere. Spare parts? Many of them come from the EU.....
That’s very nice but what did I actually say call a massive gamble?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Clearly is as you’re out the loop. You don’t seem to have any knowledge of what has actually been said by JLR. Maybe you should spend less time on here and more time paying attention to what’s happening at work.
My sister works in the JLR supply chain. The number 1 issue is the changes to diesel tax laws. As it is for many car manufacturers.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Hamburg is supposed to start banning all Diesels in 2 streets in April. One section is 400 Meters long and involves a 900 meter diversion. Supposed to reduce pollution. It doesn’t as the diversion is in the city and means all diesels drive a longer stretch. Makes more people in Hamburg rethink buying a diesel though.

No one in the Hamburg government is proposing doing away with the Hamburg harbour though, which produces far more pollution than all cars in the city.
 

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
Hamburg is supposed to start banning all Diesels in 2 streets in April. One section is 400 Meters long and involves a 900 meter diversion. Supposed to reduce pollution. It doesn’t as the diversion is in the city and means all diesels drive a longer stretch. Makes more people in Hamburg rethink buying a diesel though.

No one in the Hamburg government is proposing doing away with the Hamburg harbour though, which produces far more pollution than all cars in the city.

What’s this obsession with diesels engines? I didn’t even think they were that bad. With today’s technology and the collective pollution of planes and boats and horrendous factories everywhere cars seem a minor issue compared.

Is it just to tax them more for more money and to make us think they care?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
What’s this obsession with diesels engines? I didn’t even think they were that bad. With today’s technology and the collective pollution of planes and boats and horrendous factories everywhere cars seem a minor issue compared.

Is it just to tax them more for more money and to make us think they care?
It is EU law that has caused it all. But it started in Germany first and the EU took it and made it law for all countries in the EU. But governments didn't push it through. Especially in Germany where the car makers are very strong. It is right that something was done in many large cities. But it is car owners that will have to pay.

End of the Road: Are Diesel Cars on the Way Out in Europe?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
My sister works in the JLR supply chain. The number 1 issue is the changes to diesel tax laws. As it is for many car manufacturers.

I’m sure it is but the point is it does have something to do with Brexit as confirmed by the JLR statement and not nothing to do with Brexit as someone on here who claims to be someone important at JLR claims. I did hear on the news last night that any JLR employee who is below the pay grade of those who have the knowledge and understanding to be part of the statement will have the situation explained to them Monday so maybe Grendull will know more then. Luckily for him I’ve already given him the heads up so he might be able to understand it a little on Monday.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
You never said massive gamble. It is what has been implied by you and others. The normal Brexit crap.

You’ve read between the lines then. Can I suggest that you open the book at the right page first because I haven’t implied anything. I have quoted people who have been involved in the negotiations at Luton though and referenced the statement issued by JLR while providing a link to the full statement though. Maybe that’s confused you and you think I’ve implied what they have implied.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I’m sure it is but the point is it does have something to do with Brexit as confirmed by the JLR statement and not nothing to do with Brexit as someone on here who claims to be someone important at JLR claims
Then try reading the link I have put up.

They rely on diesel sales. Yet there are those like yourself that seem to get delight from blaming everything wrong on Brexit. And you are not alone.

So why haven't you made a comment about the link I put up for you to read? Maybe it contradicts what you are saying. There is no bias at all in the article and it explains the situation very well. And Mart agrees with it but you made no comment about what he has said either. But if he had made an anti Brexit post you would be all over it.

And strangely enough I have said it is an EU law that makes sense yet you also ignored that comment. Because it doesn't go with what you are trying to say.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
You’ve read between the lines then. Can I suggest that you open the book at the right page first because I haven’t implied anything. I have quoted people who have been involved in the negotiations at Luton though and referenced the statement issued by JLR while providing a link to the full statement though. Maybe that’s confused you and you think I’ve implied what they have implied.
Jaguar Land Rover cuts 1000 contract jobs due to diesel sales slump | Autocar
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
What’s this obsession with diesels engines? I didn’t even think they were that bad. With today’s technology and the collective pollution of planes and boats and horrendous factories everywhere cars seem a minor issue compared.

Is it just to tax them more for more money and to make us think they care?

No, I think there are statistics which show so many people die per year or have respiratory illness because of pollution from diesel cars. A third of private cars and 95% of vans in the city where I live are diesel. That alongside the ferries, cargo ships and cruiseships puts us well up in the top twenty German cities with polluted air. We are on the coast and regularly swept clean by storms and gales, yet still have too much Nitrogen Oxide in the air. Yes, there are exaggerations e.g. people point out where the monitoring stations are placed - next to the road and further away from the harbour. Makes cars look bad and the ships not quite so bad. Plus some claim that „Stickoxid“ etc. have always been present to an extent. But, I don’t doubt that the air in the cities is getting worse as more and more vehicles are on the road. Even the internet is having an effect as more and more parcels are being delivered. The streets seem full of delivery vans during the day. Something has to be done, but whereas replacing a small diesel car with an electric one within a couple of years seems possible on a large scale, I don’t see how you do that with lorries, vans and ships in the short term.

Having said that we, our city, are replacing our buses with hybrid or other non polluting ones. That is costly and will take years to replace them all. Some want a ‚blue‘ sign for diesel Euro 6 and upgraded Euro 5 vehicles which will enable modern diesel owners to carry on as before whilst banning older diesels from parts of cities. That suits me as my Merc van and Land Rover Discovery are both Euro 6.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
It is EU law that has caused it all. But it started in Germany first and the EU took it and made it law for all countries in the EU. But governments didn't push it through. Especially in Germany where the car makers are very strong. It is right that something was done in many large cities. But it is car owners that will have to pay.

End of the Road: Are Diesel Cars on the Way Out in Europe?

The courts have allowed cities to ban certain areas for diesel cars in Germany. Shows that there is an independent justice. Whether the cities do that is another thing. Our city won’t because, as I mentioned, a third of cars are diesel and they would just move to another route and cause massive traffic jams at peak times, which won’t solve anything.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Then try reading the link I have put up.

They rely on diesel sales. Yet there are those like yourself that seem to get delight from blaming everything wrong on Brexit. And you are not alone.

So why haven't you made a comment about the link I put up for you to read? Maybe it contradicts what you are saying. There is no bias at all in the article and it explains the situation very well. And Mart agrees with it but you made no comment about what he has said either. But if he had made an anti Brexit post you would be all over it.

And strangely enough I have said it is an EU law that makes sense yet you also ignored that comment. Because it doesn't go with what you are trying to say.

Ok. Firstly I haven’t said it isn’t anything to with the demonisation of diesel cars. Secondly I haven’t blamed it all on brexit. Thirdly my only real input has been correcting someone who claims it has NOTHING to do with Brexit when his employer is saying that it clearly does have SOMETHING to do with Brexit. Fourthly as I’ve already pointed out to you I have linked the JLR statement in full which clearly states that there decision is linked to Diesel engines and also linked to brexit uncertainty specifically around tariffs effecting their bottom line.

Stop trying to make out I’ve said and done something I haven’t. I’ve acknowledged the link to diesel several times now in this thread since the JLR statement was released and I am also the only person who has linked the full JLR statement and unlike you and Grendull have clearly read it in full as I’m not in denial of any of the points raised in that statement.

Unfortunately for diesel cars there are extra health implications over the toxins that they give out over petrol cars to the point where they’ve been directly attributed to deaths not only by the EU but also our own government. Are you seriously suggesting that people in power whether that be our own government or the EU don’t address that? Do you think when we leave the serving government at the time are going to do a U turn and say fuck it produce all the diesels you like let’s fill the streets with them and let the NHS deal with the consequences? You’re seriously deluded if you do so unless you are seriously deluded whether the EU enforce the law or not is irrelevant because our government would be anyway and have done things on top of the EU law to deal with it.
 

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