Grendel
Well-Known Member
Only in your world of self delusion
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (135 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Only in your world of self delusion
No. I am well aware of what’s going on. Corbyn is being taken apart and the chances of punishing the Tories are dropping like a stone. Might suit you, but this government is already right wing and we definitely need a counterbalance. The lies of Brexit are being exposed and we need someone to pull the country together, even if Brexit can’t be stopped. These jokers are not going to help the JAMs and the poor ( the ones they see as losers ). As I said, and CA accidentally admitted, and the leave lies show, we were well and truly played for Brexit and now it seems like it’s happening again to stop labour getting a boost in the municipal elections.
Pity Blair is so tainted. He is not the one to do it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You are lunatic. It’s amusing after today’s game to read your lunacy but yiu really belong in a tin foil padded asylum. Even most of the euro supporters on here give you a wide berth.
Astute
Well-Known Member
dutchman
Well-Known Member
You think people in England actually care whether a small part of Ireland remains in the UK or not?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You do seem to be clueless at times.
The Tories will do what they need to stay in power. You would disagree until I remind you how the Brexit vote came about. Then you would change the subject.
Nearly all politicians are the same. This includes Tories, Labour and those on the EU gravy train. They want what is best for them. We are just the idiots they lie to so they can lie to us even more. The best liar becomes PM unless they put someone in they expect to get shot to pieces.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see the demographic and geography of those who who voted. If the concentration of those voting in the poll are from Belfast I’m surprised it’s that high, if the votes are from across Northern Ireland I’m surprised it’s not higher.
Really? I have been saying similar things to what you are now saying.
Unfortunately, no.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Another EU cheerleader doing as Brussels wants. Sod the people and workers:
French rail workers stage 'Black Tuesday' protests against overhaul
French rail workers stage 'Black Tuesday' protests against overhaul
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
See I'm all for that type of resistance against the EU. Can't our government on the side of the railway workers somehow, however...
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Current government. Like I've said previously, we cannot view Brexit just in the context of a Tory government.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The problem is, this is the version of Brexit that was led in the rteferendum, is being led through parliament, and even the so-called Marxist who's leader of the opposition won't go that far.
So the governments we have can do more damage than the EU. Remember, the EU's not static either, and can be changed and policies altered. I'd have more faith in that happening, in fact, than I would any British government supporting workers' rights with a spate of nationalisations, import tariffs, and subsidies!
They created the chance for Brexit. They are in charge of leaving. The buck stops with the Conservative party. If it goes wrong they will be punished by the electorate.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The French rail network is run by the government. Ours isn't.
And the strike is against the French government and not exactly against the EU.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree. What I am saying is that the future beyond Brexit doesn't need to be the one envisaged by the current government.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The EU will only change what they want to. They had already refused changes ask for by Cameron. The main reason we got the leave vote as Juncker made sure we found out after Cameron made out the opposite was true.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It is technically against the EU, Macron is taking steps to implement the EU's core agenda to liberalise 'markets' across Europe. That means privatising public services.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
In many ways, the Brexit campaign is slightly ludicrous. A major criticism of the EU for many years has been about how left-leaning it is, reflecting French and others' traditional dispositions, but in recent years it's been getting more and more free market (arguably, I suppose, reflecting the power shift across Europe!). It's just we seem to want to go further!
I wish I had your optimism, but can you see the left-leaning post-Brexit joy coming over the hill? Nobody wanted to try and sell me *that* version of Brexit at the referendum. I know there are many versions sold... but that one was conspicuous by its absence (and ironically there could well have been more of a majority to leave had it been).
Even a Japanese free market style Brexit with tariffs, and protectionism of domestic industry as per the USA would be a start. It seems we're hell-bent on trying to produce the most free of free markets... at the expense of any foundations we have left.
The problem is always an issue of blame. Instead of trying to improve the EU (it's always in a constant state of flux) we pursue isolationist policies. Instead of trying to produce a constructive social Brexit, we pursue policies designed to hit people hard to justify some political grandstanding. Domestically, we go for the negative instead of trying to build opn and improve the positive. There's a plurality of meaning and views, but we try and reduce it to a single position because it stops us asking the actual difficult questions.
Maybe the time's set for a Deleted member 5849 Party...
Astute
Well-Known Member
Technically yes as you say...not really as I said.
This is people power against the system. Macron is fully behind the EU. The EU will be fully behind Macron. But I don't know how they will be able to help him against workers such as the French. And if the farmers fall into line with the train drivers the country will come to a standstill.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The major criticism for me and many others was and is the ability to get changes needed. Tweaks can't be made to benefit countries. And what is good for one will rarely be good for all
We are not pursuing isolationism. It is the EU pushing us in that direction so far. It is my view (as well as many other people) that they don't want us to do well after leaving as millions of people in other EU countries also want to leave and the EU wants to make them fear leaving.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The French government has a stake in it. It isn’t completely under government control. Ironically this also means that the French government unlike the British government has a stake in the British rail network. Taking back control and all that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Control should never have been given away so cheaply.
Yet in France the SNCF IS under government control. It is heavily in debt. And it also runs at a massive loss. And new EU laws coming out soon means massive changes have to be made. The strikes are to try and stop the changes from happening. And we all know how militant the French workers can be.
Juncker will not be standing for election again, so that was a daft reason to leave for.
They have said we won’t be able to have a better deal than existing members. Obviously. That was our choice. So you cannot blame the EU for that and they have been transparent on the issue as none of the 27 members are likely to accept a deal where we are better off out than in. But, we are global Britain and have obviously taken that into account. So nothing to moan about there.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Have you read something the way you wanted to again?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You have nothing to moan about?
Quick. Doctor. Mart has had a massive bang to the head.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you have quoted the Mirror as they must be a reliable and honest paper
Try reading it again. Then tell me you agree with it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you have quoted the Mirror as they must be a reliable and honest paper
Try reading it again. Then tell me you agree with it.
Maybe you would prefer the same story from the Daily Mail then UK fares subsidise rail travellers in Germany, France and Netherlands | Daily Mail Online
It’s not just through rail fares we’re subsidising European rail either, some is coming from the taxpayer directly through government grants to franchises that European governments have a stake in.
Subscribe to read
Letters: UK's crying need for a publicly owned railway
You said it was the main reason for the leave vote. Juncker’s so-called intransigence...
Astute
Well-Known Member
Fuck me.
Nothing is allowed from the Mirror or Mail if it is for Brexit. But if it can be used in the other side.....
Grow up.
It isn't subsidising. It is profit taking and using it elsewhere. And as I said it shouldn't have happened. Housing shouldn't have been sold cheaply. Railways should be state run....maybe. The postal service? British Gas?
Bloody hell could go on forever. But let me remind you that both the Tories and Labour were guilty of selling off everything for short term gain.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Support for EU rises in Denmark as consequences of Brexit become clear
They must have lost the memo along with France, Austria and Holland.
They must have lost the memo along with France, Austria and Holland.