The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (65 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

That is your opinion. Of course you are allowed an opinion. I just wish I was allowed one on here.

You are stating your opinion and I'm disagreeing. There's no need to play the victim.

 

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[Astute]

But this benefit was specific to trade with India. You said it doesn’t need to be improved which is probably a fair point although it does fly in the face of one of the major arguments of the leave campaign. You then ask why will it be worse. It tells you in the article you linked why it most likely will be worse. Did you see it?

The EU has been struggling to make a trade deal with India. They called off talks years ago after trying. Yet you make out that the UK will have more problems making a deal.

More problems than giving up?

 

[Astute]

You are stating your opinion and I'm disagreeing. There's no need to play the victim.

Victim? Now you are being silly.

 

[Sick Boy]

The EU has been struggling to make a trade deal with India. They called off talks years ago after trying. Yet you make out that the UK will have more problems making a deal.

More problems than giving up?

The problems were caused by the UK, as stated in the article. The UK alone is not going to have the same bargaining power.

 

[Sick Boy]

Victim? Now you are being silly.

Well you seem to be there is more or less an even split between remain and leave voters on this thread, so it's not like you're a lone voice.

 

[Astute]

The problems were caused by the UK, as stated in the article. The UK alone is not going to have the same bargaining power.

The problems?

Try reading again. Scotch whisky tariffs and not wanting mass immigration from India were the only two problems stopping a deal?

So the rest of the EU doesn't make Scotch whisky. But will they be happy with mass migration from India? Then you have many more problems to overcome.

 

[Astute]

Well you seem to be there is more or less an even split between remain and leave voters on this thread, so it's not like you're a lone voice.

Strangely enough I was a remainer. The problem is I can see both sides. And I don't have a problem with those who voted leave.

Nobody k ows how good or bad it will be. But you are not a remainer on here if you don't constantly go on about how bad IT IS going to be. You would think that the lies were only from one side. You would think that only bad can come from it.

 

[skybluetony176]

The EU has been struggling to make a trade deal with India. They called off talks years ago after trying. Yet you make out that the UK will have more problems making a deal.

More problems than giving up?

Completely missing the point. Whatever the trade deal we agree with India regardless of how easy or difficult it is to get has got to balance out a huge loss to trade with India we currently enjoy as EU members. Again it’s all in the article that you linked. Did you see it? It’s one very specific detail and was a quote directly from an Indian who understands trade not only between India and the U.K. but also India and the EU both pre and post brexit.

 

[martcov]

Weakness?

We are not as obnoxious as those who run the EU. But that doesn't make us weak. Countries want to trade with us. And as most deals will be under WTO rules as they are now they will be similar.

So what have we gained by leaving?

 

[skybluetony176]

The problems were caused by the UK, as stated in the article. The UK alone is not going to have the same bargaining power.

The odd thing is that the article Astute has linked aside from the point I’m making that’s going completely over his head also demonstrates how we still have our sovereignty despite EU membership.

 

[Astute]

Completely missing the point. Whatever the trade deal we agree with India regardless of how easy or difficult it is to get has got to balance out a huge loss to trade with India we currently enjoy as EU members. Again it’s all in the article that you linked. Did you see it? It’s one very specific detail and was a quote directly from an Indian who understands trade not only between India and the U.K. but also India and the EU both pre and post brexit.

Of course I am missing the point. Because I am right on what I am saying.

Go on then. What sort of trade deal exists between India and the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

For the benefit of Astute read this section from the article you yourself linked

“It’s certainly not going to be easy if you think of tariffs for cars and dairy products, for example. But I see much more room for compromises now,” said Sunil Prasad, secretary-general of the Europe-India Chamber of Commerce in Brussels.

He stressed that Brexit has created a sense of urgency in New Delhi that talks with the EU should be revived, primarily because Indian companies had traditionally focused on the U.K. as a launchpad into the single market.

“Most Indian companies used to go to Britain as their point of entry into Europe,” said Prasad. “It appeared the obvious choice because of historical ties and the language. But with the U.K. leaving, they now look to Germany, to France, to Belgium. And they hope for a trade deal to facilitate investment and trade flows.”

The prospect of Brussels leading the charge for a trade deal with New Delhi is galling for Brexiteers, who have long argued that Britain’s former colonies would be its most natural trade partners after the U.K. leaves the EU.“


Basically what ever trade deal we negotiate with India it has got to replace trade that we stand to lose as we will no longer be India’s entrance point into the single market. The EU is India’s largest trading partner and the U.K. has been at the centre of that. That is what we’re going to lose by leaving the EU and single market. How easy the trade deal is to negotiate is irrelevant. The important question is how is it going to replace lost trade from us leaving the EU?

 

[Astute]

So what have we gained by leaving?

We haven't left yet. Or do you know something that everyone else doesn't as usual?

If you are truthful you will admit that you know nothing until we know all deals made and have left to see how it works.

At worse there will be tariffs. So instead of billions going to the EU there will be billions going to our government instead of the German car makers for starters.

 

[Astute]

For the benefit of Astute read this section from the article you yourself linked

“It’s certainly not going to be easy if you think of tariffs for cars and dairy products, for example. But I see much more room for compromises now,” said Sunil Prasad, secretary-general of the Europe-India Chamber of Commerce in Brussels.

He stressed that Brexit has created a sense of urgency in New Delhi that talks with the EU should be revived, primarily because Indian companies had traditionally focused on the U.K. as a launchpad into the single market.

“Most Indian companies used to go to Britain as their point of entry into Europe,” said Prasad. “It appeared the obvious choice because of historical ties and the language. But with the U.K. leaving, they now look to Germany, to France, to Belgium. And they hope for a trade deal to facilitate investment and trade flows.”

The prospect of Brussels leading the charge for a trade deal with New Delhi is galling for Brexiteers, who have long argued that Britain’s former colonies would be its most natural trade partners after the U.K. leaves the EU.“


Basically what ever trade deal we negotiate with India it has got to replace trade that we stand to lose as we will no longer be India’s entrance point into the single market. The EU is India’s largest trading partner and the U.K. has been at the centre of that. That is what we’re going to lose by leaving the EU and single market. How easy the trade deal is to negotiate is irrelevant. The important question is how is it going to replace lost trade from us leaving the EU?

But what about the bits you missed out?

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course I am missing the point. Because I am right on what I am saying.

Go on then. What sort of trade deal exists between India and the EU?

I’ve already told you that. India and the EU has a GSP arrangement which is virtually tariff free. The company I work for received a 20ft container from my India last week with around £80k’s worth of industrial components in, all received tariff free under the EU GSP arrangement with India.

Can’t tell you everything on the arrangement but I think that it’s everything but armaments if memory serves me correctly. Although I’m happy to be corrected on that.

 

[skybluetony176]

But what about the bits you missed out?

What about them? Are they going to replace us being India’s gateway into their biggest trade partner? Perhaps you can explain why.

 

[Astute]

What about them? Are they going to replace us being India’s gateway into their biggest trade partner? Perhaps you can explain why.

That is the difference between us two.

I want to debate what could be good and what could be bad about Brexit. I put up a link that doesn't look good on the UK or EU. So what does Tony do?

He quotes the bad part about the UK and omits everything bad about the EU.

 

[Grendel]

I’ve already told you that. India and the EU has a GSP arrangement which is virtually tariff free. The company I work for received a 20ft container from my India last week with around £80k’s worth of industrial components in, all received tariff free under the EU GSP arrangement with India.

Can’t tell you everything on the arrangement but I think that it’s everything but armaments if memory serves me correctly. Although I’m happy to be corrected on that.

Import duty on cars into India is up to 125%

 

[skybluetony176]

That is the difference between us two.

I want to debate what could be good and what could be bad about Brexit. I put up a link that doesn't look good on the UK or EU. So what does Tony do?

He quotes the bad part about the UK and omits everything bad about the EU.

So you’re just going to dodge the question then.

India imports over €40billion of goods into the Single Market every year and according to the article you linked the U.K. is the entrance point to that currently. That’s a hell of a lot of work for dock workers, lorry drivers, clearing agents, customs officers, rail freight workers etc.

How is that going to be replaced? Does it explain it in the article you linked?

What bad is it going to be for the EU? Goods will go direct to the continent instead of coming via the U.K. This will open up new trade roots on the continent and the job creation that goes with that. Again according to the article YOU linked it says that the shackles will be of for both the EU and India opening up a FTA.

Did you actually read the article because all it actually seems to do is point out benefits for the EU and negatives for the U.K. if anyone should have linked it to back up the argument it probably should have been me.

 

[skybluetony176]

Import duty on cars into India is up to 125%

To be fair it does say cars and dairy in the article I quoted so yes you are right.

Do you expect that to change once we leave the EU? Is that going to outweigh any losses we encounter from no longer being India’s gateway into the EU?

 

[Sick Boy]

Strangely enough I was a remainer. The problem is I can see both sides. And I don't have a problem with those who voted leave.

Nobody k ows how good or bad it will be. But you are not a remainer on here if you don't constantly go on about how bad IT IS going to be. You would think that the lies were only from one side. You would think that only bad can come from it.

I seem to remember you claiming to be neutral before saying how you had switched to voting leave. You only have to go back through some of your pre-referendum posts and liked posts to see your true view.

 

[Astute]

So you’re just going to dodge the question then.

India imports over €40billion of goods into the Single Market every year and according to the article you linked the U.K. is the entrance point to that currently. That’s a hell of a lot of work for dock workers, lorry drivers, clearing agents, customs officers, rail freight workers etc.

How is that going to be replaced? Does it explain it in the article you linked?

What bad is it going to be for the EU? Goods will go direct to the continent instead of coming via the U.K. This will open up new trade roots on the continent and the job creation that goes with that. Again according to the article YOU linked it says that the shackles will be of for both the EU and India opening up a FTA.

Did you actually read the article because all it actually seems to do is point out benefits for the EU and negatives for the U.K. if anyone should have linked it to back up the argument it probably should have been me.

Me dodge the questions?

All you have done is looked for the bad for the UK and ignored the bad for the EU. Usual for you on this thread.

They want to talk with the EU. But talks have never got anywhere in the past. But you make out that it is already sorted. And you omited it all on the part you put on here.

So how about the trade deal between the EU and UK?

It says they used to look at us first for exports. You k ow the whole history from this and know it will end badly for us.

How about a honest debate for once.

For instance when did you last post a link that looks bad on the EU? When did you last not defend one?

 

[Grendel]

To be fair it does say cars and dairy in the article I quoted so yes you are right.

Do you expect that to change once we leave the EU? Is that going to outweigh any losses we encounter from no longer being India’s gateway into the EU?

The point is the EU will not want these restrictions if it is to have free trade going both ways as Germany is the major beneficiariy of s pure free trade arrangement.

Unless you actually build cars there you sell them at zero profit. The problem with a free trade arrangement across many countries is that you get beneficiaries and those whose balance becomes negative depending on the import export relationship.

Ultimately it will make little impact on us.

 

[Astute]

I seem to remember you claiming to be neutral before saying how you had switched to voting leave. You only have to go back through some of your pre-referendum posts and liked posts to see your true view.

Not neutral. Can see leaving being bad for me but good for my younger kids.

The thing is the longer this goes on the more we find out about hiw the EU runs. I had never looked into it before. And I, like millions of others, do not like what we have seen.

 

[skybluetony176]

Me dodge the questions?

All you have done is looked for the bad for the UK and ignored the bad for the EU. Usual for you on this thread.

They want to talk with the EU. But talks have never got anywhere in the past. But you make out that it is already sorted. And you omited it all on the part you put on here.

So how about the trade deal between the EU and UK?

It says they used to look at us first for exports. You k ow the whole history from this and know it will end badly for us.

How about a honest debate for once.

For instance when did you last post a link that looks bad on the EU? When did you last not defend one?

It was your link not mine. Perhaps you should have tried reading it or at least digesting it. You still didn’t answer the question. The question was raised specifically from a point in the article you volunteered so maybe you could answer the question.

 

[Astute]

The point is the EU will not want these restrictions if it is to have free trade going both ways as Germany is the major beneficiariy of s pure free trade arrangement.

Unless you actually build cars there you sell them at zero profit. The problem with a free trade arrangement across many countries is that you get beneficiaries and those whose balance becomes negative depending on the import export relationship.

Ultimately it will make little impact on us.

And the article I linked says a major problem is out of the way as they have high tariffs on Scotch whisky.

So do they class car tariffs for the Germans as minor? Even second hand cars have massive tariffs.

That was why the EU gave up 5 years ago. Yet some make out it will be OK this time.

 

[Sick Boy]

And the article I linked says a major problem is out of the way as they have high tariffs on Scotch whisky.

So do they class car tariffs for the Germans as minor? Even second hand cars have massive tariffs.

That was why the EU gave up 5 years ago. Yet some make out it will be OK this time.

I'd imagine a large reason is due to the differences in environmental regulations and problems around this. The EU is still India's largest trading partner.

 

[Grendel]

I'd imagine a large reason is due to the differences in environmental regulations and problems around this. The EU is still India's largest trading partner.

The free trade will never happen unless they make car trade free which would have a huge impact on their balance of payments

 

[skybluetony176]

The point is the EU will not want these restrictions if it is to have free trade going both ways as Germany is the major beneficiariy of s pure free trade arrangement.

Unless you actually build cars there you sell them at zero profit. The problem with a free trade arrangement across many countries is that you get beneficiaries and those whose balance becomes negative depending on the import export relationship.

Ultimately it will make little impact on us.

The impact on us is trade coming the other way. If India is importing €40B worth of goods into the EU and using the U.K. as the entry point to do that then you have to acknowledge that when this stops that is going to have an impact on UK jobs and businesses. The Indian exporter is not going to put an extra stop on their shipments for the fun of it are they? They’ve going to go direct to the EU to, as the article says, the benefit of France, Belgium and Germany. It will be their dock workers, customs workers, haulage companies etc. dealing with India to EU shipments not ours.

 

[Astute]

It was your link not mine. Perhaps you should have tried reading it or at least digesting it. You still didn’t answer the question. The question was raised specifically from a point in the article you volunteered so maybe you could answer the question.

Yes it was my link. Shows I am not biased like you are.

Are you saying that all goods from India come through the UK?

 

[Astute]

I'd imagine a large reason is due to the differences in environmental regulations and problems around this. The EU is still India's largest trading partner.

Our cars are environmentally safe to what they have.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes it was my link. Shows I am not biased like you are.

Are you saying that all goods from India come through the UK?

No. But the quote from your article clearly states that the U.K. has traditionally been India’s entry point into the EU.

Are you aware of the recent development of London Gateway? It currently has 3 deep sea births and can accommodate the worlds largest container ships. Part of the reason for this development was because it allows easy rail and road links with the channel tunnel and Dover.

It isn’t the only deep sea port in the EU and one of the reasons to use it is being diminished. Not just for India but the world as a whole.

 

[Astute]

No. But the quote from your article clearly states that the U.K. has traditionally been India’s entry point into the EU.

Are you aware of the recent development of London Gateway? It currently has 3 deep sea births and can accommodate the worlds largest container ships. Part of the reason for this development was because it allows easy rail and road links with the channel tunnel and Dover.

It isn’t the only deep sea port in the EU and one of the reasons to use it is being diminished. Not just for India but the world as a whole.

Yes traditional. But you have tried to make it look like it all comes through here.

And you have been overdramatic with the rest. We import and export a lot. And the most comes through a place most people have never heard of. I worked there for many years. And an even bigger surprise to many is that it is in Lincolnshire and not down south.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes traditional. But you have tried to make it look like it all comes through here.

And you have been overdramatic with the rest. We import and export a lot. And the most comes through a place most people have never heard of. I worked there for many years. And an even bigger surprise to many is that it is in Lincolnshire and not down south.

I haven’t made anything out. I have quoted the article that you’ve linked though.

And why was the port no one has ever heard of developed? Was it to take work away from other EU ports like Rotterdam by any chance? Would you admit that leaving the EU will change the dynamic of that?

 

[Sick Boy]

Theresa May is preparing to surrender over plans to leave the Customs Union after Brexit

I predicted before we would end up in the EAA, reckon this could be the first step