The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (31 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
In the article Tim Congdon says:

„The Council of Ministers is - in practice - the EU's most important arena of decision-taking.

But Germany, despite having the largest population and by far the most substantial economy, with an output almost twice that of Italy, has been no more powerful on the council than five other countries.“

Which according to some on here as the whole thing was created for Germany‘s benefit and is controlled by Nazi Merkel. Who is more likely to be correct?
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Germany don't have a bigger say. But they do best out of being in the EU. And the Muppets in charge of the EU never do anything to upset Germany.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
No. He is a total Kipper. The articles were standard Kipper election campaign material. Just thought it strange him pointing out that Germany‘s strength in the Council doesn’t reflect it‘s economic strength. The constant Germany runs the EU line doesn’t mention this. He is of course right on this as Council voting is based on population figures not economic strength.
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He was also right each time we have done shit. And also right when we have ended up doing well. He was the only one that I know of that saw problems coming in the 80's.

Just like he disagreed with Osborne over what would happen if we voted leave.

So he is only right sometimes?

He has made predictions since the 80's that I know of. He has been right several times when those you like to listen to have been wrong. How about finding predictions of his that have been wrong?

You will try to discredit him but admit that he is truthful on all matters.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Selectively correct? Sometimes he is right and on the main points he is wrong. E.g. he doesn’t like regulations regarding climate change.

Sometimes even you are right.

Germany doesn’t control all aspects of EU policy. That is Juncker according to some on here and Kippers in general.
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It depends on how you look at climate control regulations. Look at what has happened at JLR with the diesel engines. Or Germany with the diesel engines. Niw there are cleaner engines available people don't want to buy them.

But point out where he has been wrong with the economy before?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
He was also right each time we have done shit. And also right when we have ended up doing well. He was the only one that I know of that saw problems coming in the 80's.

Just like he disagreed with Osborne over what would happen if we voted leave.

So he is only right sometimes?

He has made predictions since the 80's that I know of. He has been right several times when those you like to listen to have been wrong. How about finding predictions of his that have been wrong?

You will try to discredit him but admit that he is truthful on all matters.
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I don’t doubt that he is truthful or right on many things. He seems to have built up a good reputation. Some people do disagree with him on some things to do with money supply through credit from banks as to QE.

But, as you say, we don’t know where we are going to land. Depends a lot on whether we stay in the CU and if not, who is going to trade with us on what terms.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
It depends on how you look at climate control regulations. Look at what has happened at JLR with the diesel engines. Or Germany with the diesel engines. Niw there are cleaner engines available people don't want to buy them.

But point out where he has been wrong with the economy before?
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The Germans are not happy about rules on Diesel as they have a big percentage of Diesel cars, partly because they don’t tax Diesel as much as petrol. This reduces CO2 and has helped the sale of Diesels including from JLR.

But the regulations force people to go for electric cars and develop cleaner Diesel engines. Robert Bosch think they have the technology to solve the Diesel problem, which, if true, will boost the industry as people go for the new engines in the future.

I don’t know where Tim Congdon has been wrong before, but I would be surprised if he, or anyone, has been 100% right. I don’t doubt that he knows what he is talking about, but there are many factors in leaving the EU and it is hard for anyone to know where we will land.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
I don’t doubt that he is truthful or right on many things. He seems to have built up a good reputation. Some people do disagree with him on some things to do with money supply through credit from banks as to QE.

But, as you say, we don’t know where we are going to land. Depends a lot on whether we stay in the CU and if not, who is going to trade with us on what terms.
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Osborne disagreed with him. And we know how far wrong Osborne was. He even predicted the 2008 crash. Who else did.

So he isn't wrong just because others disagree with him. Just like when he tried warning Maggie in the 80's.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
The Germans are not happy about rules on Diesel as they have a big percentage of Diesel cars, partly because they don’t tax Diesel as much as petrol. This reduces CO2 and has helped the sale of Diesels including from JLR.

But the regulations force people to go for electric cars and develop cleaner Diesel engines. Robert Bosch think they have the technology to solve the Diesel problem, which, if true, will boost the industry as people go for the new engines in the future.

I don’t know where Tim Congdon has been wrong before, but I would be surprised if he, or anyone, has been 100% right. I don’t doubt that he knows what he is talking about, but there are many factors in leaving the EU and it is hard for anyone to know where we will land.
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I prefer to listen to someone who has an excellent track record than those who keep getting it wrong.

So is he wrong to disagree with the way that climate control laws have been handled? It is costing jobs and a lot of money.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
I prefer to listen to someone who has an excellent track record than those who keep getting it wrong.

So is he wrong to disagree with the way that climate control laws have been handled? It is costing jobs and a lot of money.
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I was at a renewable energy exhibition a couple of years back and one of the seminars I attended was about renewable energy creating jobs. Under Obama’s presidency his commitment to the Paris accord was creating jobs in the American renewable energy industry 20 times faster than any other US industry was.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I was at a renewable energy exhibition a couple of years back and one of the seminars I attended was about renewable energy creating jobs. Under Obama’s presidency his commitment to the Paris accord was creating jobs in the American renewable energy industry 20 times faster than any other US industry was.
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Using renewable energy and saying how laws were brought in and the implementation of them was wrong are two totally different things.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Just pointing out that climate control also contributes to growing economies.
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Yes. But that wasn't the point that was raised.

There is no need to try and discredit someone just because they don't agree with you.

You don't keep getting it right about how the economy is going and what will happen next for over 30 years without knowing what you are talking about. He has even got it right when other 'experts' have told him he was wrong. So who am I to call him wrong this time?
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
You are totally confused. We will negotiate and we will have to accept some things. Our partners will have to accept something’s we want. That is the whole point of negotiations. That means we are not free to do anything we want to if we want to trade with people. Simple.

I know NATO is not the EU. People are always on about an EU army forcing us to defend e.g. Estonia. We have to anyway in the EU or out because of NATO. Simple.

We always had the chance to influence the EU through the Council and we did. We didn’t get everything we wanted and we never will anywhere else. The days of having a world Empire are long gone. We will always be restricted in some form. Simple.

We have agreed to the UN charter and the Geneva Convention. Just because others break agreements, doesn’t mean we are free to do what we want.

We will never be a totally sovereign nation. If you believe we will be or that it is desirable to be, then you have an extreme view of sovereignty.

The whole idea of sovereignty is a Brexit red herring.
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WUM or what?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
You seem know things about treaties that no one here does. They were all negotiated and ratified, which would contradict your conspiracy theory. 27 governments didn’t come to the same conclusion as yourself. 1% of UK GDP is not the end of the world in itself. That would not be the biggest loss of Brexit. The EU is not just about money, despite the BS flying around the Brexit media.
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No mart, it is all about YOU isn't it?

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
No. But the quote from your article clearly states that the U.K. has traditionally been India’s entry point into the EU.

Are you aware of the recent development of London Gateway? It currently has 3 deep sea births and can accommodate the worlds largest container ships. Part of the reason for this development was because it allows easy rail and road links with the channel tunnel and Dover.

It isn’t the only deep sea port in the EU and one of the reasons to use it is being diminished. Not just for India but the world as a whole.
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Have you ANY idea how easy this "link" to Dover & the Channel Tunnel actually is in reality?
It's quicker to transport smaller items by human chain than by truck.
So that limits things to the overcrowded rail network to be "easy"

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Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Surprised you haven't said anything about this..."Germany lowers growth forecast as business morale weakens - source" - Germany lowers growth forecast as business morale weakens - source

I'm sure you would have leapt upon it if it was about Britain!
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It shows those that don't understand about what happens with a strong currency against a weak currency.

Some on here seem to celebrate a strong Euro. But it badly harms the weaker countries and eventually harms the stronger ones. And the Euro isn't exactly very strong either.

So lets get back to the UK. If the EU tries to make it hard for us we could have a hard time at first. This would devalue the £. But once the £ is devalued we would become a cheap place to buy from. But we would buy much less from the EU. The odds are this would drag the EU down with us.

The odds are those running the EU know this. If they don't they shouldn't be in a position of power.

This is what I mean when I say they should do what is best for the people of the EU.

But there is a bonus on the Euro devaluing. The weaker countries in the Euro would have a currency where it should be for them. And the stronger countries in the Euro would do well. So it would end up going back up in value.

Economics are easy to understand as long as you ignore those who want you to believe what they say or you don't listen to those who don't understand.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I bet them Germans are well jealous of us after having to lower their growth forecast to 2,6%. Especially as the BCC has just risen ours. To 1.5%.
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How about borrowing? This forms a large part on how things are going.

Germany are having to raise 183 billion this year as there is a lot of long term debt to be repaid. The UK is borrowing the least amount for 11 years. And ut is also lower than forecast. Down to 42 billion.

But then look even more into it. German companies run at a massive surplus. It is seen as being great by most in Germany. Short term it is. But long term it could be bad.

There’s no need to envy Germany’s trade surplus

You can't look at one headline and miss out other important ones and think you have the whole story.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
How about borrowing? This forms a large part on how things are going.

Germany are having to raise 183 billion this year as there is a lot of long term debt to be repaid. The UK is borrowing the least amount for 11 years. And ut is also lower than forecast. Down to 42 billion.

But then look even more into it. German companies run at a massive surplus. It is seen as being great by most in Germany. Short term it is. But long term it could be bad.

There’s no need to envy Germany’s trade surplus

You can't look at one headline and miss out other important ones and think you have the whole story.
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Which is why I posted about the GBP dropping again. The Express had bigged up recent strength as being connected with Brexit. It was mainly because of interest rate speculation, but they don’t care.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Which is why I posted about the GBP dropping again. The Express had bigged up recent strength as being connected with Brexit. It was mainly because of interest rate speculation, but they don’t care.
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The pound has within 1 cent remained unchanged for 2 months

It’s performance over the last few months shows an upward trend curve
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Which is why I posted about the GBP dropping again. The Express had bigged up recent strength as being connected with Brexit. It was mainly because of interest rate speculation, but they don’t care.
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It's a floating currency, it moves up and down all the time. I wouldn't on the one hand take the Express' earlier story as credible to then shoot it down with their later story. Both are pretty irrelevant. The UK government has for years been in the habit of trying to devalue sterling to make exports competitive. For the rest of us, we prefer the idea of having a few more quid to spend on holiday.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
Soon be time to go vegetarian :shifty:

American meat is 'safe for UK trade deal'
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It’s not the safety of the meat that bothers me it’s the way it’s farmed. US fields are full of GM crops that are harvested to feed cows that never leave the shed and then have to have all sorts of shit injected into them to make the meat marble like it would naturally if they were allowed to roam around fields once in a while.

No thanks. I’ll be avoiding US meat and anything that isn’t labelled to confirm it isn’t.
 
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