Astute
Well-Known Member
So why do 2 out of 3 of them want us to stay in the EU?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (39 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It tells you in the opening paragraph of the article that you yourself have linked.
“Britain’s wealthiest landowners are raking in millions of pounds of taxpayers money through the agricultural subsidy system, it is revealed today.”
Seriously. Do you not read anything ever?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You’d have to ask them that. It’s not because they’re not going to carry on getting subsidies once we leave though. Because they will.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Give your head a shake.
So all the money goes to farmers? No. Not at all. They get paid by the acre. Just for owning or renting it. Or are you saying that the National Trust are the biggest farmers in the UK?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
According to Gove we’re going to keep paying farming subsidies when we leave at the current EU rates until 2022 at least.
Gove sets out post-Brexit farm funding
Gove sets out post-Brexit farm funding
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Give your own head a shake. I’ve never said it does go to the farmers, I’ve repeatedly said land owner. The whole point I’ve been making is that it goes to the land owners, such as James Dyson. In some cases the land owner is also the farmer but in other cases the farmer is a tenant and the money goes to the land owner, such as James Dyson.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Better than for ever under the EU. We can put a plan together where money goes where it is needed and not for the rich for doing nothing but owning land.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You always call it farming subsidies. So now it isn't farming subsidies?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s because it is, it’s to do with the common agricultural policy. It’s not the same as saying it goes to farmers. Especially when you keep making the point that it goes to the land owners at the same time. Jesus, did you think I thought James Dyson spends all day sat on a tractor or something?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s yet to be seen but I admire your optimism if nothing else. A bit like the £350M a week to the NHS.
Astute
Well-Known Member
No. You always call it farming subsidies. The farming subsidies are a part of the CAP.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Mmm? CAP? By any chance does that stand for the Common Agricultural Policy? You know, like I just told you in the very post you quoted saying NO like I’ve got it wrong? It does doesn’t it? It’s also where James Dyson gets paid from. Billionaire Brexit backer Sir James Dyson was the biggest private recipient of EU farm subsidies last year
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course I know what the acronym CAP stands for. Why should do the whole thing?
So back to Dyson who I said was the largest single private payment. But explain like I also said earlier how the largest payment from the CAP was to the National Trust if it is a farmers payment like you said.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell. Seriously?
Because like Dyson they are the land owner. The farmer is the tenant and it’s the landowner not farmer (unless the farmer is also the land owner) who gets the payment Farms to let
Astute
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
So what are you trying to say? You are saying that it is a farmers premium. It isn't. It is a rich landowners premium. It is paid to those who own land.
But it is nothing new. You usually contradict yourself.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
About £30 a load? Speculation?
Nearly as bad as you saying it was a farmers premium when you knew the money went to the landowners.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s a farming subsidy and I said in the very first post I made on the subject that it goes to the land owner you thick prick.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yet another insult by you when you have shown to be wrong. Well done. You argued for ages that the money went to the farmers and not the rich landowners like I said.
So are you KeyboardWarriorTony now?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course there wasn't a plan. Cameron bought the votes not considering what would happen if we voted leave. Many politicians don't care what they say as long as they stay in power.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Things not looking good in Italy :shy:
Italy's next government is Europe's next crisis - CNN
This is what some of us were saying. The Euro makes Germany rich and others suffer as they are all tied together on the same currency. And not enough help reaches the EU countries in the South of Europe.
Should Europe be scared of Italy's populists?
The problem as some of us have stated before is those running the show are not interested in reform. Their only interest seems to be in making the EU bigger. The populist vote is growing. And because many are suffering through the EU the populist vote isn't going in the direction of the EU.
The problem is that the EU will be more interested in punishing us for having the balls to leave than working out why votes are going against them in all countries and doing something about it. And by the time the votes against them are enough to cause them a problem it is too late to do anything about it.
And it wouldn't surprise me if their answer to the problem is to punish us even more to show the other countries what happens when you leave.
If it can go wrong in Italy when they are the third largest economy that gets billions invested each year from the EU it can happen anywhere.
Italy's next government is Europe's next crisis - CNN
This is what some of us were saying. The Euro makes Germany rich and others suffer as they are all tied together on the same currency. And not enough help reaches the EU countries in the South of Europe.
Should Europe be scared of Italy's populists?
The problem as some of us have stated before is those running the show are not interested in reform. Their only interest seems to be in making the EU bigger. The populist vote is growing. And because many are suffering through the EU the populist vote isn't going in the direction of the EU.
The problem is that the EU will be more interested in punishing us for having the balls to leave than working out why votes are going against them in all countries and doing something about it. And by the time the votes against them are enough to cause them a problem it is too late to do anything about it.
And it wouldn't surprise me if their answer to the problem is to punish us even more to show the other countries what happens when you leave.
If it can go wrong in Italy when they are the third largest economy that gets billions invested each year from the EU it can happen anywhere.
Things are not looking good in countries where populists are taking power. The USA is experiencing a massive attack on it’s democracy from a group of liars and an „influence for sale“ swamp. Nazis hacking into Austria. The government taking power from the judiciary in Poland. Urban crushing the press in Hungary. And now people like Farage gleefully hoping for a Brexit Style mess in Italy.
Brexiteers hoping that other countries suffer the uncertainty and polarisation that the UK is suffering.
The UK is punishing itself and you blame the EU.
How sick is that? I have just been at the scene of the battle of nations 1813 in Leipzig. People of 22 Eurpean sovereign nation states murdered each other. The biggest war memorial in Europe is dedicated to their remembrance. Most of those Nations now live in peace in the EU. Which rightminded person would wish a return to centuries of European wars caused by a system of selfish Nation States?
Astute
Well-Known Member
If only you could look at the situation without your pro EU goggles on.
What I have said countless times is that the EU needs reform. Even you agree with me here. But reform is the last thing on the agenda. People power is rising. I am not saying that it is a good thing. But all the EU wants to do is make the EU bigger without fixing what is wrong.
Being able to see what trouble could lie ahead isn't being anti EU. It is being realistic. And yes I do blame the EU for the direction that they are taking the whole thing in.
Italy has major problems. The EU answer is to close the borders. Or at least they did nothing to keep the borders open. But I suppose they didn't want to upset Macron. So where is the help for Italy and Greece? We are all supposed to be in it together.
You keep making out that there is only peace in Europe because of the EU. There had been peace for many years before the EU came about. So what has the EU done that has kept the peace?
As I have said before if it carries on like this there is more chance of it causing trouble than stopping it. It keeps the rich richer and the poor poorer. If anti EU sentiment carries on at this rate it won't be long before it gets out of hand. But you just can't see it. And before you say it I don't want it to happen. And before you say it won't happen just look at Italy. Nobody knows what will happen next.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
A big gripe for some Italians is illegal migration and refugees arriving from Africa and other EU countries not being willing to share the burden of this migration.
I agree countries like the UK should have been willing to do more to help but when you have some sounding off about legal migration from within the EU, it doesn't look likely.
Also Cinque Stelle are incompetent and will collapse; La Lega Nord are basically fascists who were once in an alliance with the odious UKIP, which says it all UKIP's true colours. As I've said before, Italy's problems are very much down to decades if not centuries of corruption that is deeply engrained into society.
I agree countries like the UK should have been willing to do more to help but when you have some sounding off about legal migration from within the EU, it doesn't look likely.
Also Cinque Stelle are incompetent and will collapse; La Lega Nord are basically fascists who were once in an alliance with the odious UKIP, which says it all UKIP's true colours. As I've said before, Italy's problems are very much down to decades if not centuries of corruption that is deeply engrained into society.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes Italy does have problems that have gone on for a very long time.
But the migration problem is a new one. It is exasperating the original problems. They are now stranded in Greece and Italy. Most seem to want to go to Germany and Sweden. But after the problems it created for Merkel last time they didn't want it to happen again. France is refusing to take any. Their reply was to close the borders. The EU isn't in unity like many would love you to believe. The reason they are happy for borders to be closed is they would then have the freedom to travel to any EU country on mainland EU.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes the UK is 1/5 of the whole amount of the EU trade. We can't do anything yet because of EU rules. But once we have left we will be able to make a deal.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
My FIRST post on the subject
Your reply.
Me pointing out the obvious to you from your own source
The first time I point out to you that I've said it's the land owner that receives the subsidy
You missing the point again and making out I'm saying something I didn't
Me pointing out that they are
You thinking that they come from something other that Common Agricultural Policy having not realised that CAP is an acronym for Common Agricultural Policy
Me pointing that out to you
You now pretending that you did know what CAP stands for despite previously saying that subsidies come from CAP not the Common Agricultural Policy. You then bring the National Trust into it again without realising that they are one of the biggest farming land lords in the country thus having no understanding of why they're one of the biggest recipients of Farming subsidies from CAP, that's an acronym for the Common Agricultural Policy by the way
You still not understanding it I give you a link to the NT's lists of farms that they are the land owners of that they let out
And then you post this nonsense
The last bit is laughable given you go by the name of astute. Do you actually know what astute means? I'll give you a clue. It's the opposite of what you've just demonstrated above.
Your reply.
Me pointing out the obvious to you from your own source
The first time I point out to you that I've said it's the land owner that receives the subsidy
You missing the point again and making out I'm saying something I didn't
Me pointing out that they are
You thinking that they come from something other that Common Agricultural Policy having not realised that CAP is an acronym for Common Agricultural Policy
Me pointing that out to you
You now pretending that you did know what CAP stands for despite previously saying that subsidies come from CAP not the Common Agricultural Policy. You then bring the National Trust into it again without realising that they are one of the biggest farming land lords in the country thus having no understanding of why they're one of the biggest recipients of Farming subsidies from CAP, that's an acronym for the Common Agricultural Policy by the way
You still not understanding it I give you a link to the NT's lists of farms that they are the land owners of that they let out
And then you post this nonsense
The last bit is laughable given you go by the name of astute. Do you actually know what astute means? I'll give you a clue. It's the opposite of what you've just demonstrated above.
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3% of their exports come to the uk according to the article. It’s 11500 miles away. Good, but relatively insignificant.
Yes, we could increase the 3% share of NZ exports to us and maybe send things 11500 miles to them. I think staying in the EU who are doing a deal with NZ anyway sounds like a much better bet.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Stop being negative. NZ has a population of 4.6M they’re easily worth the risk of leaving a free trade agreement with 508M on our doorstep for.
They? Who are they? Them and us. Always them and us nowadays. Who pushed the them and us? NF, BNP, Britain First? For Britain, Nigel Farage. Now you speak the same language. Shows how the country has changed over the last couple of years. They... in this case... seems to be Arab refugees. Why don’t you at least give „them“ a name or description?
Astute
Well-Known Member
And everyone knows you were saying that it was a payment made to farmers Mr Keyboardwarrior.