The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (176 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
No, it wasn’t the EU. They wanted to join the Euro. There were huge
If we had voted remain we wouldn’t be having a dispute about which sort of remain we want. There would be no need for a second referendum in this case.
Here is a Resümee about Soros:
Compare him to Farage, Trump, BoJo, Mogg or Bannon ..... Populists and habitual liars against one of the biggest philanthropists.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Yes. We can do a trade deal with them.
We can send them our women, they can send us theirs.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Anyone who thinks George Soros is the beacon of democratic values is fucking nuts.
On the continued point about the € I have maintained for a long time that one currency cannot manage so many micro-economies within it, all with differing fiscal/monetary aims. The answer to that isn't to increase the EU's powers to ensure everyone has to tow the party line otherwise we may as well fuck the whole thing off and go live in the sea.
On the continued point about the € I have maintained for a long time that one currency cannot manage so many micro-economies within it, all with differing fiscal/monetary aims. The answer to that isn't to increase the EU's powers to ensure everyone has to tow the party line otherwise we may as well fuck the whole thing off and go live in the sea.
Plenty around at the moment.... would try listening to people like Bannon.. he is quite open.... „darkness is good“ according to him.. „liberal democracy is dead“....
And these people and their fans deflect on to Soros accusing him of having been in the SS and killing Jews etc..although he was 15 at the end of the war and at school at the time living under forged papers not to get caught by the Nazis... The propaganda seems to be working.. at least judging by some comments on here ...
How come we can govern regional differences with a single currency for 4 countries in the UK? The answer is a unified fiscal and financial system. Which will come to the Eurozone eventually. The alternative would be 20 odd competing currencies and regular devaluation of the weak currencies taking away the value of savings, creating inflation and increasing costs through currency trading. Not many takers for that scenario.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Because they're 4 countries that have shared a common culture and law for hundreds of years, places that have broadly similar industries, climates and resources, not to mention a common language. (Granted there are the native languages but these are minority languages).
Not a group of 27 countries thrown together on the basis of a federalist ideal after being independent of each other for hundreds of years, all with different industry, some different climates and different natural resources.
27 countries weren’t thrown together, they weren’t joined by force or blood lines or an unelected aristocracy. And there are 28 countries in the EU. In our Union, we have different climates, different terrain, different ways of worshiping the wizard in the sky.... not to mention raw materials such as oil in Scotland ( off the coast) or coal fields in different countries.
Our home countries are united under a monarchy there by right of god, and our unified language was imposed by force and our law on to the weaker countries.
Our head of state is also head of „our“ church and „defender of the faith“.
Scots were even banned from wearing kilts and their language made illegal. And you are nice enough to accept Gaelic languages by mentioning them as minority languages, they being minority languages in the countries where they were once the majority language, mainly because of our government‘s past policies.
In comparison, the EU is a benevolent voluntarily union ratified by elected parliaments and administered by elected MEPs and a Council of elected representatives of 28 parliaments.
I would agree that there won’t be any takers for imposing the British system of a unified currency or federal system through force, with an unelected monarchy and upper house.
There is no equivalent of article 50 in our United Kingdom should our home countries wish to leave our „one currency fits all“ model through leaving the United Kingdom.
As I said, reforms are necessary for the Eurozone, and it can only work by having a coordinated fiscal and financial system overseen by an agency, an EU finance ministry, and a transfer system to help weaker regions.
That will be hard work and take years, but I hope that the latest problems will kick start a reform process.
I really wouldn’t sneer at the EU as „being thrown together“ whilst sitting in the UK. It shows a complete lack of historical knowledge on your part.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Well...maybe the latest shenanigans shows things for what they truly are. A day after I read that the MartCov lauded German coalition is in some difficulty over...wait for it...immigration policy (Reuters), than they post the below. Apparently Germany & France have agreed a budget for the Eurozone. The details are to be "worked out" with the other EZ members. If they can make it work it might well be good for the EU...but I have my doubts.
Mind you...worked out = negotiated if you ask Mart & one or two others as far as the EU goes, no doubt...or, bullying & cajoling if you ask myself & one or two others.
Italy have already stuck two fingers up to the migration policy. It's all building up a head of steam & getting interesting. I do hope they can hold it all together though.
"Merkel, Macron back euro zone budget in 'new chapter' for bloc" - Merkel, Macron back euro zone budget in 'new chapter' for bloc
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Mind you...worked out = negotiated if you ask Mart & one or two others as far as the EU goes, no doubt...or, bullying & cajoling if you ask myself & one or two others.
Italy have already stuck two fingers up to the migration policy. It's all building up a head of steam & getting interesting. I do hope they can hold it all together though.
"Merkel, Macron back euro zone budget in 'new chapter' for bloc" - Merkel, Macron back euro zone budget in 'new chapter' for bloc
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Not sure do mate, a heavy dose of relish on top there.
The demise of the EU suits who exactly ,USA, Russia?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Anyone who mentions George Soros is nuts. There’s billionaires finding politics on all sides. That’s how it works, especially in the States. Koch brothers at one end, Soros at the other. If you think he’s special you’ve bought some conspiracy shit hook line and sinker.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, my hope is the EU puppeteers see the need to reform for the better rather than ploughing ahead with the current agenda(s) of what seems (in this case at least) to be the agenda of 1 or 2. The UK needs the EU to be functional at least.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
And today...
"We see a strong need to significantly reduce secondary movements... by preventing unlawful crossing of internal borders between Member States by irregular migrants and asylum seekers and by ensuring swift readmissions by the competent Member State," said a draft of the statement for Sunday's meeting.
Asylum seekers already do not have the right to travel freely within the EU while their applications are being processed. But such "secondary movements" are difficult to stop in the border-free Schengen zone, and have been widespread since immigration to Europe peaked in 2015, when more than a million people arrived from the Middle East and Africa
Does this indicate some sympathy in the EU for Farage & co's original much maligned stance?
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"We see a strong need to significantly reduce secondary movements... by preventing unlawful crossing of internal borders between Member States by irregular migrants and asylum seekers and by ensuring swift readmissions by the competent Member State," said a draft of the statement for Sunday's meeting.
Asylum seekers already do not have the right to travel freely within the EU while their applications are being processed. But such "secondary movements" are difficult to stop in the border-free Schengen zone, and have been widespread since immigration to Europe peaked in 2015, when more than a million people arrived from the Middle East and Africa
Does this indicate some sympathy in the EU for Farage & co's original much maligned stance?
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Nah, not really. Farage seemed to have an issue with legal migration and legal migrants living next door Farage attacked over Romanians 'slur'
He also liked to claim that British people felt uncomfortable hearing other langauges spoken
Nigel Farage: parts of Britain are 'like a foreign land'
I suppose this is why most Britons are multilingual and never speak English when abroad. You also don't get British communities in places like Spain as the British are so aware of how dreadful that can be.
Not like you to try and paint him in a good light though, eh.
If anything it's certain countries trying to avoid taking on their share of migrants from countries where they land; Britain is very much included in those which have turned their backs on the problem.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Paint him in a good light? Not especially...I like passionate straight talkers. He has turned out to be something of a double-twister in some respects.
I can understand why some, having lost work, quality of life & sometimes even livelihood because their trade has been devalued, sympathised with his stance...I sympathised with their argument too.
That effect was encouraged by what amounts to a Government polcy to let businesses cut pay levels by employing migrant workers who also understandably wanted to enter the country.
I do own up to playing devil's advocate with some arguments...coz nothing is really absolutely clear cut.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Doesn't read like that to me. Sounds more like the stance taken by many of Farage's critics. That the rules we already have are sufficient they just aren't enforced correctly.
We have a border in to Europe, people should be processed there whether immigrants, asylum seekers or refugees. The problem is we go and bomb counties like Syria with no plan for handling the inevitable displaced population. Huge numbers flee and the borders to Europe can't cope.
If the system quickly and fairly dealt with people and they were distributed evenly throughout Europe you'd still have a large number of people coming in which is not what Farage wants.
What was his stance? What has he got to do with Schengen negotiations? I doubt whether anyone in the EU has sympathy for the bullshitter Farage.
Did the government allow businesses to ignore the minimum wage? If the minimum wage is below the normal wage, which allows immigrants to undercut unskilled British workers, why haven't the government increased the minimum wage or attempted to retrain unskilled labour? We have full employment, so in theory we should all be getting higher wages - immigrant or not. I suspect that a problem is lax employment regulation or enforcement.
Who is a straight talker? And does straight talking mean bullshitting? I prefer listening to reasoned "talking" instead of Farage crap.
What is reform for the better in your opinion? They are tackling undercutting wages. They are trying to get a European policy on immigration, including in countries of origin. This is a benefit of the EU. Without the EU it would be even more difficult to solve the problem and would probably end in bloodshed or borders or concentration camps. Trying to stabilise the main currency in Europe is also an aim "for the better".
What is the UK doing in Europe to create stability, apart from annoying everyone so much that they are united in their approach to Brexit, and what on earth is an "EU puppeteer"? - sounds like meaningless Brexit crap.
The EU is functional. The problem is that the UK is limping from government crisis to crisis and is not functional. We are just negotiating with ourselves, much to the amusement of the rest of the EU.
The 2 economically most powerful countries, now that we have recused ourselves from Europe, are Germany and France. They will set the agenda and the rest will either agree, amend or reject through the European Council and Parliament. It is called democracy, get over it.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There is a problem with people working cash in hand for less than minimum wage which hasn't been dealt with effectively.
The bigger issue relating to freedom of movement is that there is now a workforce available to employers, largely from Eastern Europe, who will work long hours for low wages in poor conditions. They are jobs that with the current pay and conditions Brits wouldn't take. The theory goes that if that workforce wasn't available then better pay and conditions would have to be offered in order to fill the roles.
The reason Eastern Europeans will do those jobs for such little return is down to the imbalance in the economies across Europe, especially between west and east. They will put up with the long hours and poor conditions because the small amount, in UK terms, they send home is a significant amount for those they've left behind.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That is the theory, but it is not always true. Wages are growing in Eastern Europe so that will not last forever. Even here in Germany the fruit farmers are complaining that it is getting harder to find fruit pickers as, although they now have to get 9,00 € per hour, they prefer to stay at home as the difference is no longer so great.
My best worker is Estonian and he comes for 2 or 3 months a year. He gets more than my other workers. In this case it isn’t the money for me, it is that he works with more flexibility and knows what he is doing.
But he says Estonia is more expensive for many things than Germany. He would also get a job there tomorrow, but by working long hours in a short time with me, he gets more free time. He has his own firm and can work when he wants. He doesn’t live in Germany and so is not a migrant. I couldn’t find a German to work part time or a German company to be as flexible as he is.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I can see your point there for sure, but there is a big imbalance in economies across Europe as Dave has said. I think it depends on where you look.
I was in Riga, Latvia last summer and it was between about 2 or 3 pounds a pint (roughly), they had told me over there that it used to be so much cheaper, which was what I was expecting to be honest. If you go to places like Poland you do really start seeing a difference though. I was in Krakow a couple of years back and there were 9 of us on the trip. I offered to get the first round in and was absolutely gobsmacked when I got change from a tenner (50 zloty) for 9 pints. The worker in the hostel (who I also hooked up with
) was paid a derisory £1 per hour roughly.A special mention goes to Prague (not necessarily the whole of the Czech Republic), doesn't strictly use the Euro but costs have skyrocketed in the last couple of years. It's not really a particularly cheap place to go any more.
That was really obvious. There are huge cargo flying backwards and forwards between UK, Hamburg and Toulouse. How‘s that going to work if they have to be checked in and out in the UK because of regulations and tariffs? It can’t work as the planes are being assembled in different countries as one process. There are ex pats working here in Hamburg. How will they be affected if they become third country workers? Did Brexit voters even consider multi national EU projects when voting? Or were they fired up against Juncker’s drinking habits and Merkel jackbooting over poor little Greece? Or was it Arabs being invited to leave Arabia and settle in the EU?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s threatening to move production to China you clown. It’s already cut production and reduced workforce in France and germany and is only in the uk as we have huge grants to set up and all this is is another attempt to get more grants.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Which asks questions on several levels. We were repeatedly told that we had to leave the EU to trade easier with countries like China. Airbus seems to be saying that isn’t an issue as an EU member. From what I’ve read they won’t be moving whole scale production to China, final assembly will still be done in the EU and specifically France so its only component manufacturing moving to China. The second question is is leaving the EU rather than protecting British workers is it going to protect EU workers? Leaving the EU has made it a lot easier on many levels for Airbus to move jobs from the U.K. to China rather than from the EU to China.
As for grants we’re going to have to almost double what we have given Airbus to compete with France or Germany. The odds are being stacked against saving British Airbus jobs from moving to China as apposed to saving EU jobs from moving to China. Brexit seems to be pushing British jobs down the priority list for companies like Airbus. Wouldn’t be surprised if Vauxhall is next.
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Do you think that will work if we leave the CU and SM?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Pffft...we buy their cars, eat French cheese and drink Italian wine, they'll all soon be bending over to keep selling to us. As our esteemed Brexiteer leaders told us, we can do individuals deals with each of these countries and pick and choose...oh....
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Precisely
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
They could be empty words you know? Costs a lot of money to upsticks & move to China or wherever
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dutchman
Well-Known Member
Like Concorde and Jaguar you mean, both built long before Britain joined the Common Market?
Jaguar was founded before the war by Sir William Lyons and was not a multi national project. Concorde was Anglo French, but designed in the 50s. The original firm doesn’t really exist anymore but belongs to an Indianfirm. Don’t know what you’re trying to say..