skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Bank ready to lower interest rates if Brexit is disorderly - Mark Carney
More positive news. From the BOE this time.
More positive news. From the BOE this time.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
And:
Staying in EU customs union into next decade likely to be 'only viable option', pro-Brexit Tory MPs agree
Note the bit about Brits in the EU at the foot of the article. I have to pick up my German nationalisation certificate which is waiting for me. Then, at least, I know where I stand after Brexit.
What a mess. All because people were whipped up into a frenzy about something they know little or nothing about.
UKIP plan to have a celebration party as the Union flag is lowered in Brussels on leaving day. Totally bizarre when we don’t even have an acceptable plan to leave and will probably be a „vassal state“ for years to come because of our own appalling incompetence.
Staying in EU customs union into next decade likely to be 'only viable option', pro-Brexit Tory MPs agree
Note the bit about Brits in the EU at the foot of the article. I have to pick up my German nationalisation certificate which is waiting for me. Then, at least, I know where I stand after Brexit.
What a mess. All because people were whipped up into a frenzy about something they know little or nothing about.
UKIP plan to have a celebration party as the Union flag is lowered in Brussels on leaving day. Totally bizarre when we don’t even have an acceptable plan to leave and will probably be a „vassal state“ for years to come because of our own appalling incompetence.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Carney also threatened/promised to raise interest rates if Britain voted to leave, then did the exact opposite!
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Then could you do us all a favour and stop referring to yourself as "British" when you are clearly not?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
He also had to inject £60B through quantitative easing that he said he wouldn’t do. He didn’t do either for positive reasons. Just because he didn’t do what he initially thought he would have to do doesn’t mean that we got away with it when voting leave. He just took a different negative route to address the negative effects of it. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.
Good link here explaining what QE is and why it’s done Request Rejected
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Dual nationality. Allowed in Germany, but not in Holland ( for Brits at least). A piece of paper protects my legal rights, but doesn’t do anything physically to me.
That’s Carney‘s job. He is not a politician or following an ideology. If he sees us driving into a brick wall, he has to react.
Back to brick walls... Mogg‘s mate said on TV that ideologies are very important in politics when defending the way Brexit is heading.
No one has come with a solution to border problems. If we leave not being in the SM or CU there will be chaos. Supply lines broken. Contraflow systems on motorways leading to the ports to make room for the lorry tailbacks. More costs for export documents. Deposits required for exhibition goods
Travelling on a Carnet de Passage and fees for preparing the Carnet.
All this, plus maybe trouble in Ireland, to deny the reality that we don’t have an fxxking clue at the moment as to how we are going to exit the largest trading block in the world.
Still NZ, 4m people and 11500 miles away, has said they are up for discussions.
At which point do leavers have to admit they hadn’t expected this mess? Amazing that they keep trying to paint a good picture.
Pure ideology driving us into a brick wall.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Highly likely given that there will have been 3years of stagnation and decline. When you hit the bottom there’s only one direction you can go. How long do you think it will take us to catch the rest of the the world up in terms of growth since we voted leave?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How long will it take to catch up with Italy, Spain, Greece - well pretty much every country other than Germany in the EU? I’ll have a long think about that one....
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Four countries aren’t the rest of the world. Oh, and thanks to Italy’s own current political turmoil we have already caught them up in terms of rate of growth. Or should that be they’ve dropped to our level?
It’s a serious point. Foreign investment is at an all time low in the U.K. despite the weak sterling on paper making the U.K. look an attractive place to invest. We’re rock bottom of the G7 in terms of growth. Home investment is seriously low, manufacturing forecasts are seriously low, new companies registrations are desperately low etc etc. How long do you think it will be until we catch up the rest of the world? If it makes it easier for you we can just look at the G7 if you like.
Let’s face it. Once we leave there’s only one way we can go. And even then it will be a recovery not a boom. It’s only a boom when you compare to years of decline and stagnation and that’s not really a boom at all.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It isn’t a serious point at all as economic growth is one indicator.
Many EU economies have eye watering debt compared to ours and are only surviving due to rates of interest being artificially suppressed by the European Bank. All it takes is one of those countries to decide enough is enough (or in Greece’s case just go down) and many of these economies will enter a period that makes the Great Depression look like a minor blip.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So basically you’ve made the point and now a few details have been thrown in the mix you don’t want to discuss it because our economy isn’t a “serious point” now. Classic. Diverting from your own diversion.
I think he is referring to the growth we would have had had we not slowed in comparison to other countries because of Brexit uncertainty. Other countries don’t have the additional problems of extra border controls, creating new agencies with thousands of civil servants, replacing hundreds of trade agreements from a weak position and under pressure of time coupled with currency devaluation.
But, enjoy thinking of other people’s problems whilst we drive into a brick wall.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Er no. There’s no diversion and what’s extraordinary is that after all the Brexit bilge you’ve come out with you now say the only was is up once we leave.
Well, that’s nice, but it doesn’t help us does it? I recall from school, one populist claiming that, with regards to the Soviet Union, if you kick the door in, the whole house will fall down. Didn’t go according to his expectations, but they kept going believing in their own ideology.
That is an example of following an ideology through, despite it obviously leading to a disaster. Mogg and his band of 60+ Conservatives are threatening May with defeat if she reacts to the situation and remains in the CU and SM.
Very democratic. Makes one wonder why Mogg wants a hard Brexit.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tiny says we will start to grow post Brexit - also as I’ve tried to explain growth is one indicator of prosperity
To recover some of what we lost is not a great reason for leaving.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/02/08/2198570/jacob-rees-moggs-huge-personal-windfall-after-brexit/
Another man of the people.
Another man of the people.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which is hogwash and shows how clueless you are
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What are the other indicators? In your opinion. It’s funny though. How I basically agree with you on something and once I put some details into it you immediately disagree with me. It’s not very often you meet someone capable of disagreeing with themselves yet you somehow manage it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that we won’t recover what we’ve lost?
Clueless is wanting to leave the largest trading bloc on the planet.. without knowing how to do it..... that‘s more your department...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The Brexit referendum was a tiny point in time when evaluating growth cycles.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Tiny? And you’ve got the nerve to call other people clueless. It’s a defining moment for everything especially the economy. If it’s “tiny” presumably if the economy does boom and I do mean boom not recover, you won’t be saying it’s down to brexit. Given how it’s a tiny point in time when evaluating growth cycles.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well of course it is - you judge an economy in the same way you evaluate investment growth - over a long term - also as I keep saying this country and it’s independance from the euro is the biggest factor in last long term growth and future potential.
Really? What about membership of the EU and what terms, if any, we leave on? We are not in the Euro and there is no sign of us joining, so that is just another distraction from the main issue which is CU and SM.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it isn’t as that still ties us into Eu policy - and long term political and fiscal integration which has proved a disaster. You are aware that countries like Spain, Italy, Portugal abd Greece are effectively bankrupt and the only reason that they remain functioning is the artificial suppression of interest rates from the European Bank?
The European Union is an unmitigated failure. It’s attempt to have a political cabal from Brussels has benefited its main paymaster and has caused misery everywhere else.
That’s why - another point you never acknowledge - this ghastly attempt at forced unity has led to rises in nationalism on a scale that would never happen in the UK
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I’ve already pointed out to you that investment both home grown and foreign (again, despite a weak that at least should make the U.K. attractive to foreign investors, maybe you could explain why that is if the referendum is a “tiny” factor) has decided rapidly since the referendum. That’s not short term and looks unlikely to change anytime soon. We’re not in the Euro and amazingly the pound is still stronger than the Euro which would indicate that the Euro hasn’t damaged our economy any more than the dollar. You’re really going to have to explain that comment with the clarity of detail because at the moment it sounds like empty rhetoric that you’ve assumed makes you sound intelligent.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’ve explained it in several posts Tony - what shall I do - use crayons to explain to you and Mart?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You could say the same about our economy. Our interest rates are suppressed and a massive quantitative easing program was launched of the back of the referendum. Of those countries it’s (as I’ve already pointed out to you) Italy who has a growth forecast equal to ours. All The others have a higher growth forecast, Spain and Portugal especially. All that despite being in the EU and the Euro.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You haven’t explained anything. You have made several claims with no explanations though. Not nearly the same thing. Crayons or no crayons. Besides didn’t astute eat all the crayons in your house?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh for Christ sake. Quantative easing is an approach the uk can take to stabilise it’s economy
The suppression of the rate at the European Bank is done for exactly the opposite reasons. Spain and Italy are bankrupt and have no economic tools within their power to influence their fate.
Long term political and fiscal integration haven’t happened at this point in time, so you cannot say they have failed.
The EU has not caused misery everywhere else. Most countries are better off and Greece, which you love to quote, was badly run for years... by Greek politicians.
There has been no attempt at forced unity. Every country has veto rights on important decisions.
The rise of nationalism caused by Brexit in Britain can be seen in the media every day. We have the FPTP system which prevents parties like UKIP, For Britain, BNP etc from getting seats in Westminster. So you cannot compare with PR which gives nationalism seats in parliament. You can see the posts on social media e.g. showing support for a racist criminal similar to his pegida mate in Germany ( also a criminal- a burglar who had done time ). Plenty of disgusting racists and islamaphobes in Britain, just they don’t have parliamentary representation.
