Because we are leaving the SM and CU and will not accept rulings of the ECJ. We will be importing from 3 rd party countries and their goods may not meet EU standards. If we stay in the SM and CU ( BINO ) we can carry on. Simple really, but May says we won’t be doing that. Corbyn wants a new CU which is cloud cuckoo land.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (259 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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Because we are leaving the SM and CU and will not accept rulings of the ECJ. We will be importing from 3 rd party countries and their goods may not meet EU standards. If we stay in the SM and CU ( BINO ) we can carry on. Simple really, but May says we won’t be doing that. Corbyn wants a new CU which is cloud cuckoo land.
Don’t worry, he’ll revert to Juncker in a minute as this is getting too complicated.
It must be easier in the UK. It is for people with Irish roots and people born in Northern Ireland.
No, but living in the vile enemy EU territory in a chateau is to say the least, hypocritical.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Is Rumpy Pumpy still getting half a million a year?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We have to agree on something for the EU to either agree with or dismiss. Until we know what brexit is what is the EU supposed to be agreeing on.
Why can’t we have a free trade agreement that we’ve voted to leave? Do I really have to explain that one to you? That’s like asking your ex wife why you can’t have a blow job on your birthday after you’ve divorced her. We’ve elected to leave that arrangement not the other way around. It staggers me how people say that we have to leave this free trade agreement because it’s protectionist etc. and then expect an automatic free trade agreement. It’s like their argument for leaving is irrelevant. Most of the arguments that Brexit backers levy for how a trade deal should be happening are like remain arguments in stealth mode. It’s an absolute nonsense.
The irony is that there are two different blueprints for free(ish) trade agreements with the EU ie the Norway option and the Canada option. The government isn’t even looking at these as a starting point and for one simple reason, they don’t have a workable agreement. Hence leave voters giving our government a get out of jail free card for governing the country and putting the onus on the EU to decide what brexit means. The we must take back control crowd don’t want us to take control. The irony.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Trade is only one issue with the border. You have to work out what to do with people for starters.
If we're not part of free movement then surely it needs a hard border?
If you don't have that what stops it being a free for all, any EU citizen comes to Ireland and then just walks over the border and they are in the UK.
That's nothing like the 'control of our borders' that leave were pushing in their campaign.
If we get on to trade even if we have a free trade agreement with Europe what about other countries? Unless every agreement we have is identical to the EU, and therefore the same as Ireland, there needs to be a border.
These aren't little things that will be sorted easily. Really this should have been thought through in advance and a solution proposed so that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for.
Astute
Well-Known Member
But any trade deal is massive when sorting out with Ireland. How can anything be sorted when we don't know how much needs to be sorted?
The last thing that anyone should want is a hard border in Ireland. That doesn't mean that we should stay in the EU just because of the problems with Ireland. If everyone worked together it would be much easier. But so far the EU hasn't done much except for have a go at anyone who wants to sort things out.
The EU doesn’t want a hard border, but if go to WTO rules without a deal, then it is compulsory to have a border. We have created this situation.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The Eu would love a hard border they are evil spiteful people - we have created nothing. We had the audacity to listen to the will of the people - something the bigoted corrupt filth in Brussels can’t stand. The same goes for you - you admit you couldn’t care less about any if the countries suffering under the Eu authoritarianism as long as your life is fine and dandy.
You talk like a Daily Express Reader.
The EU is an organisation which we are a member of and have been for 40 years. It is not a racist right wing loopy person as yourself.
The will of the 52% voters is not the will of the people. Das Volkswillen... was the expression your predecessors used.
I have not admitted anything like that or agreed that I even said anything like that. You and Astute would make a good couple.
My life, and that of millions of EU citizens is fine and dandy, except if you read they Mail, Express and Breitbart. Then we have Nazis goosestepping in front of the front door, Muslims invading us, raping our children and burning our churches down. Of course not everything is perfect. It never was, but it is better than ever before in my lifetime.
The UK created Brexit and the chaos and uncertainty that comes with it. You may have noticed that there was an advisory referendum on the subject... in the UK and no where else. It is our baby, but 2 Years later no one can explain how it is going to work.
Just soundbites from people like you. Meaningless sayings and assorted drivel, but no answers to the questions posed by Brexit.
Just blame Tusk or Juncker or Barnier... but never ever the 17,4 million who voted for Brexit or the scum that lead the campaign.
I don’t know. How’s Moggs‘ Russian investments in his hedge fund portfolio coming along? How’s his Irish EU office coming along? Are Farage‘s children using their German PerSo or British passports on holiday?
Astute
Well-Known Member
If they wanted what was best for the citizens of the EU there wouldn't be a problem. But they are causing problems to try and get us to stay.
But you know this.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Read back & you will find you're quite wrong.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I cannot understand your keep banging on about anyone else regurgitating the same old arguments. You're still stuck in 2000 when things appeared to be going well, but really TB was capitulating on many issues
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Yes, ok .. answer the question then..
I am talking in reply to Astute’s question relating to present day problems.
No I don’t. They just said if you don’t come up with something soon there might not be a transition period.
In other words you will out on your arse. Not quite begging the UK to stay.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Wasn't 52% of voters it was 52% of those who voted. Its a subtle but important difference as only 37% of registered voters put an x in the leave box.
That equates to 34% of voting age population or 27% of total population.
If Cameron hadn't been so sure he was going to win a bit more thought would have been put in to the mechanics of the vote.
Yes I should have phrased that better. To come to the conclusion that it is the will of the people when only a minority actually took the trouble to vote for Brexit is pushing it a bit far. The Conservatives would not say that they are governing according to the will of the people, therefore labour should get over it and not come to parliament as the will of the people has been expressed.
To use that phrase is to deny a democratic right of opposition.
The Nazis claimed exactly the same that they were carrying out the will of the people. A dangerous precedent.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That’s totally irrelevant
No it isn’t. You just say things without foundation. Brexit is not the will of the people. They won an advisory referendum and around 50 % of the actual voters did not vote for Brexit, which is a majority that didn’t vote for Brexit if you include all registered voters. It was a slim majority of actual voters. Ok. You can say it was a majority vote, but it is nowhere near an expression of the will of the people. The government has no right to ignore the will of the people who didn’t vote for Brexit. At best they should go for a compromise such as a BRINO deal.
The have no mandate to disenfranchise half of the electorate. Any deal has to be acceptable to the majority of the people. No one knows what the deal on the table will be. There has to be another vote on this calamity.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s irrelevant. The question was stay or remain in the EU - those who abstained from voting by definition were not interested in the outcome.
Another vote to make the right choice is the way of a banana republic
One party stood for that at the election - remind me how well they did.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
One of the main reason which was cited as a reason to leave was FoM
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Brexit was not a key issue in the election.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Been a few posts on here where you've implied people shouldn't have a say in things but calling the result of a vote totally irrelevant is a bit much!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Including non voters is irrelevant
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That would only be true if leavers weren't constantly going on about the will of the people.
You're drawing a conclusion about those who didn't vote to suit you preference when in reality you can have no idea what a higher turnout would have meant to the end result. You can't claim something is the will of the people when only 27% of the population voted for it!
Astute
Well-Known Member
What % put the X in the remain box?
In the vote yes, but implying that they are there in the will of the people is not true. It is not the will of the people. It is the will of 17,4 million people. The majority of who voted, but not the „people“. You are telling the remainers thst it is their will as „the people“. You take away their vote and right of opposition. No, that is not democracy. They lost, but they have an opinion and a „will“. This is not „Triumph des Willens“ as in the famous Nazi film, this is a narrow victory.
Astute
Well-Known Member
27%? You are starting to sound like Mart.
The point being over 16 million voted remain and others didn’t vote, so it is a Faragism to claim that Brexit is the „will of the people“.