The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (303 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I haven’t Tony I just posted a comment to see a reaction then revealed who said it and what the reaction was. It was very revealing

I’d say a racist is someone who voted for a racist party like UKIP - oh hold on

Off course you did. You’re pathetic reply only confirms your true colours.

 

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[Grendel]

Off course you did. You’re pathetic reply only confirms your true colours.

Well you like phrases like “special kind of stupid”

I’d say the definition of that is some pro Eu and pro Immigration voting for a party whose only two pledges are anti Eu and anti immigration

That takes stupid to Martcov levels

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You’re basically asking the EU to bale us out of our decision to leave. That’s hardly taking back control. I suppose the plus side is that we can always blame the EU then for our decision. The government aren’t going to take ownership of the brexit problem so we may as we’ll put it on the EU and that negates those who voted leave of taking ownership of their vote also. Anything bad happens when we were in the EU it’s the EU’s fault, anything bad happens when we leave it’s the EU’s fault.

Can I ask all the brexit voters when are they going to take ownership of what they voted for and hold our government responsible for how we leave rather than the the EU?

No - I am saying this works both ways. If the EU wants to just shrug its shoulders on Brexitthere will be no deal. Which some seem to think is better than a bad one

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[skybluetony176]

Well you like phrases like “special kind of stupid”

I’d say the definition of that is some pro Eu and pro Immigration voting for a party whose only two pledges are anti Eu and anti immigrationtu

That takes stupid to Martcov levels

You can pretend that you don’t know why I voted UKIP if you want to be that stupid, I’ve explained it enough times now to you.

Special kind of stupid would be using the same rhetoric, policy arguments as UKIP while stereotyping Italians and promoting Mrs Boardmans hate of the Germans as something to behold and then label UKIP racists as if it somewhere exonerates you from being a racist even though you share the same values of them. I’m actually thinking UKIP might not be racist enough for you giving your recent outbursts.

 

[skybluetony176]

No - I am saying this works both ways. If the EU wants to just shrug its shoulders on Brexitthere will be no deal. Which some seem to think is better than a bad one

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The EU didn’t vote for us to leave we did. It’s our show. It doesn’t work both ways. We decided to leave it’s for us tho decide what that means it’s then for the EU to decide if that’s acceptable to them. Anything else and it’s no deal because we don’t know what we’ve voted for. You’ve voted to take back control and now you’re asking the EU to decide what that means. Can you really not see the contradiction in what you’re saying.

 

[martcov]

The EU didn’t vote for us to leave we did. It’s our show. It doesn’t work both ways. We decided to leave it’s for us tho decide what that means it’s then for the EU to decide if that’s acceptable to them. Anything else and it’s no deal because we don’t know what we’ve voted for. You’ve voted to take back control and now you’re asking the EU to decide what that means. Can you really not see the contradiction in what you’re saying.

I’ll answer that for him.

No, he cannot.

 

[Astute]

Are you implying that it has a mistake to have invited migrants from around the world to come for decades to work in out healthcare system, to rebuild the country and economy after WW2? It appears you seem to abide by the one rule for one them mantra

So are you implying that the EU did the right thing by stranding them in Italy, Spain and Greece?

Of course not. But that was my point. And you didn't make one post making a comment about it. Is that because you are pro EU and like Mart refuse to mention the bad about it?

 

[Astute]

Oh I agree - see Mart and Tony do as well

Juncker: Italians need to work harder and be less corrupt

Another one to be ignored by the the pro EU lot. Because Juncker is always right or it isn't to be discussed.

 

[Astute]

Business as usual? In what way? Freedom of Movement? Then surely you believe the UK should say the same then as far as EU citizens go?

So what has happened to those stranded in Italy, Greece and Spain? They want to go to Germany so their way through has been blocked.

 

[martcov]

Well you like phrases like “special kind of stupid”

I’d say the definition of that is some pro Eu and pro Immigration voting for a party whose only two pledges are anti Eu and anti immigration

That takes stupid to Martcov levels

Apropos stupid.... you haven’t mentioned Tusk for 5 minutes and therefore your only chance was to switch to Juncker. Limited repertoire.

 

[martcov]

Another one to be ignored by the the pro EU lot. Because Juncker is always right or it isn't to be discussed.

Back to Juncker again..

 

[martcov]

So what has happened to those stranded in Italy, Greece and Spain? They want to go to Germany so their way through has been blocked.

I don’t know... has the UK rushed in to help by accepting thousands of asylum seekers?

 

[martcov]

Surge in British people obtaining EU citizenship since referendum, new data reveals

 

[Astute]

The EU didn’t vote for us to leave we did. It’s our show. It doesn’t work both ways. We decided to leave it’s for us tho decide what that means it’s then for the EU to decide if that’s acceptable to them. Anything else and it’s no deal because we don’t know what we’ve voted for. You’ve voted to take back control and now you’re asking the EU to decide what that means. Can you really not see the contradiction in what you’re saying.

OK have had enough of the pro EU bullshit again.

How about telling me where my thoughts are wrong?

Trade deal.

We buy a lot more from the EU than we sell to them. A zero rate trade deal would benefit the EU more than the UK. Borders would not be needed in Ireland. Customs borders for goods wouldn't be needed between the EU and UK. Even the German car makers would be delighted as they wouldn't suffer thousands of job losses. Trade would continue as it is. Nothing special is being asked for as countries all over the world have trade deals. It is only when people like Trump get involved that there are problems.

But Juncker and Barnier seem to be saying no. Why is that?

If there are no bullshit replies to this but just good honest answers we can go onto the next point. Then we can see how easy it is to make a deal....or show it is people being awkward that stops deals being made.

 

[Astute]

Surge in British people obtaining EU citizenship since referendum, new data reveals

Wow 7,400 people.

And how many are doing the same with the UK? Makes the 7,400 look like a drop in the ocean.

 

[martcov]

Wow 7,400 people.

And how many are doing the same with the UK? Makes the 7,400 look like a drop in the ocean.

You have to have lived 8 years in Germany.. which not many have... it also costs time and money..

 

[martcov]

OK have had enough of the pro EU bullshit again.

How about telling me where my thoughts are wrong?

Trade deal.

We buy a lot more from the EU than we sell to them. A zero rate trade deal would benefit the EU more than the UK. Borders would not be needed in Ireland. Customs borders for goods wouldn't be needed between the EU and UK. Even the German car makers would be delighted as they wouldn't suffer thousands of job losses. Trade would continue as it is. Nothing special is being asked for as countries all over the world have trade deals. It is only when people like Trump get involved that there are problems.

But Juncker and Barnier seem to be saying no. Why is that?

If there are no bullshit replies to this but just good honest answers we can go onto the next point. Then we can see how easy it is to make a deal....or show it is people being awkward that stops deals being made.

It is not just about tariffs though. It is about regulations and a recognition of the ECJ in disputes. It is also about people and capital crossing borders and passporting rights.

If we hadn’t voted leave and had continued to accept the 4 freedoms- in other words we weren’t playing at being awkward there would be no need for customs and people borders in Northern Ireland or anywhere else in Britain for EU goods and people. That was the situation we had created with great help from Mrs Thatcher.

In other words you are claiming we should have voted remain.

Quite agree with you on that.

 

[martcov]

You have to have lived 8 years in Germany.. which not many have... it also costs time and money..

Plus that is only this year and doesn’t take into account that lots of people are still hoping for a decent reciprocal deal. Some, like leaver Lawson, have applied for a doit de sejour, residents permit, in France to avoid problems, and in the case of Lawson to be able to reside in a chateau and receive a nice pension from Brexit Britain. Others will be tapping up Malta where you can „buy“ EU citizenship by fulfilling investment terms. As suggested by Lord Taxdodger Ashcroft.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK have had enough of the pro EU bullshit again.

How about telling me where my thoughts are wrong?

Trade deal.

We buy a lot more from the EU than we sell to them. A zero rate trade deal would benefit the EU more than the UK. Borders would not be needed in Ireland. Customs borders for goods wouldn't be needed between the EU and UK. Even the German car makers would be delighted as they wouldn't suffer thousands of job losses. Trade would continue as it is. Nothing special is being asked for as countries all over the world have trade deals. It is only when people like Trump get involved that there are problems.

But Juncker and Barnier seem to be saying no. Why is that?

If there are no bullshit replies to this but just good honest answers we can go onto the next point. Then we can see how easy it is to make a deal....or show it is people being awkward that stops deals being made.

Pro EU bullshit? Unless you’re claiming that the EU had a referendum and the upshot of that was that they voted we leave the EU there is no bullshit. We voted to take back control but seem very reluctant to take that responsibility. Why?

 

[martcov]

Farage is now advocating offering tariff free trade with the EU, whilst accepting no single market regulations. He equates the Northern Iteland border with Felixstowe docks unloading container ships from China. He says if we can trust importers with containers from China then we don’t need border checks in Northern Ireland. I don’t think he knows what he is on about. The EU is not going to drop their rules for Farage‘s idea. He is getting desperate to shift the blame for Brexit on to the EU.

 

[Astute]

You have to have lived 8 years in Germany.. which not many have... it also costs time and money..

So how about the rest of the EU?

And you say the UK is difficult.

 

[Astute]

It is not just about tariffs though. It is about regulations and a recognition of the ECJ in disputes. It is also about people and capital crossing borders and passporting rights.

If we hadn’t voted leave and had continued to accept the 4 freedoms- in other words we weren’t playing at being awkward there would be no need for customs and people borders in Northern Ireland or anywhere else in Britain for EU goods and people. That was the situation we had created with great help from Mrs Thatcher.

In other words you are claiming we should have voted remain.

Quite agree with you on that.

Pro EU bullshit? Unless you’re claiming that the EU had a referendum and the upshot of that was that they voted we leave the EU there is no bullshit. We voted to take back control but seem very reluctant to take that responsibility. Why?

No surprise there.

So neither of you can say why there can't be a free trade agreement and come out with other rubbish in the name of deflection.

There you go. This is why it is difficult to make an agreement with the EU.

 

[Grendel]

Plus that is only this year and doesn’t take into account that lots of people are still hoping for a decent reciprocal deal. Some, like leaver Lawson, have applied for a doit de sejour, residents permit, in France to avoid problems, and in the case of Lawson to be able to reside in a chateau and receive a nice pension from Brexit Britain. Others will be tapping up Malta where you can „buy“ EU citizenship by fulfilling investment terms. As suggested by Lord Taxdodger Ashcroft.

Lawson would get a pension anyway so it’s not anything to do with Brexit Britain

Are we still half a million a year for Rumpy Pumpy to do nothing? Good job he is not Italian his successor will be telling him to work harder - or perhaps not.

 

[skybluetony176]

No surprise there.

So neither of you can say why there can't be a free trade agreement and come out with other rubbish in the name of deflection.

There you go. This is why it is difficult to make an agreement with the EU.

We’ve voted to leave the free trade agreement. We clearly don’t know what we want to replace that. The governments approach is scattergun at best.

 

[Astute]

We’ve voted to leave the free trade agreement. We clearly don’t know what we want to replace that. The governments approach is scattergun at best.

We voted to leave the EU.

So that means we need to make agreements between each other. The best agreements would benefit both sides.

One of the agreements has to be about trade. So why can't we have a free trade agreement like now.

Try coming out with a logical reason. Because I can't think of a single one. The EU countries would even be better off with one. It isn't as though we have a massive surplus in trade with the EU. It is the EU that has a massive surplus with us.

 

[martcov]

No surprise there.

So neither of you can say why there can't be a free trade agreement and come out with other rubbish in the name of deflection.

There you go. This is why it is difficult to make an agreement with the EU.

The other rubbish is what has to be agreed to have a trade agreement.

 

[Astute]

The other rubbish is what has to be agreed to have a trade agreement.

So how do we solve Ireland if we don't know the trade agreement?

 

[martcov]

So how about the rest of the EU?

And you say the UK is difficult.

I don’t say the uk is difficult. You say that I say that. Some countries don’t allow dual nationality even for EU citizens. Holland is one of those.

 

[martcov]

So how do we solve Ireland if we don't know the trade agreement?

Good question. That is what Barnier would like us to explain. We’ve had 2 years and we are no further forwards. BoJo compares the Irish border to crossing a zone in London and Farage compares it to unloading a Chinese container ship. Apart from that ...

 

[Astute]

I don’t say the uk is difficult. You say that I say that. Some countries don’t allow dual nationality even for EU citizens. Holland is one of those.

But is the 7,400 That want DN in the EU massive when multiples want to stay in the UK?

 

[Astute]

Good question. That is what Barnier would like us to explain. We’ve had 2 years and we are no further forwards. BoJo compares the Irish border to crossing a zone in London and Farage compares it to unloading a Chinese container ship. Apart from that ...

Exactly.

Barnier wants us to come up with ideas for everything before we talk about trade. But if we could sort out trade most of the rest would fall into place.

 

[martcov]

So how do we solve Ireland if we don't know the trade agreement?

We voted to leave the EU.

So that means we need to make agreements between each other. The best agreements would benefit both sides.

One of the agreements has to be about trade. So why can't we have a free trade agreement like now.

Try coming out with a logical reason. Because I can't think of a single one. The EU countries would even be better off with one. It isn't as though we have a massive surplus in trade with the EU. It is the EU that has a massive surplus with us.

Because borders involve people, trade involves a mechanism for solving disputes. There needs to be a system of guaranteeing that goods conform with EU regulations and vice versa. Documentation has to be decided. Controls have to be instigated. Software has to be developed. How do we control goods coming from a third party country via the UK that doesn’t have a trade deal? The situation that we have now is the best that is possible. But, you don’t want that and neither do 17,4 million others. So where is the workable proposal?

 

[Astute]

Because borders involve people, trade involves a mechanism for solving disputes. There needs to be a system of guaranteeing that goods conform with EU regulations and vice versa. Documentation has to be decided. Controls have to be instigated. Software has to be developed. How do we control goods coming from a third party country via the UK that doesn’t have a trade deal? The situation that we have now is the best that is possible. But, you don’t want that and neither do 17,4 million others. So where is the workable proposal?

Exactly the same way it does now.

So what would be so difficult on not changing the way trade works presently?

 

[martcov]

Exactly.

Barnier wants us to come up with ideas for everything before we talk about trade. But if we could sort out trade most of the rest would fall into place.

No,it wouldn’t. We have to know if there will be an Irish border or not before working out a way to comply with the border. We have to know about citizens‘ rights. That is a must as by taking away EU citizens‘ rights the EU pledge not to take away rights is being broken.

At the moment there 3,5 million EU citizens in the UK and 1,5 million Brits in the EU. That has to be regulated first. It should be easy. The ones in Britain now keep all rights. Now why can’t we agree?

 

[Sick Boy]

Pro EU bullshit? Unless you’re claiming that the EU had a referendum and the upshot of that was that they voted we leave the EU there is no bullshit. We voted to take back control but seem very reluctant to take that responsibility. Why?

One day he claims that he wanted to get out the EU then all of a sudden pretends that he wanted to remain the whole time and now he has gone back to wanting to leave.