The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (185 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

I want to see that you understand what sort of people and what sort of motives were behind the leave campaign which took place in the UK. Tusk and Juncker are not relevant in this conversation. The problem for you and Astute is that if we don’t talk about Tusk or Juncker you’ve had it.

They & their colleagues & predecessors (yes even the British ones alongside them) are entirely relevant because they created the environment which led to people voting to leave

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[Sick Boy]

You must have loved the eloquent Danny Dyer’s reasoned thoughts on Brexit on Thursday. Suggest you google it.

To be fair he originally voted for Brexit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Italians are lazy people anyway so hope you have a good time there

So far this week you’ve celebrated a woman you work with for publicly hating the Germans, not sure what her hatred is based on but that doesn’t seem to matter to you so long as she hates them. Maybe she’s Mrs Boardman and they bombed her chippy, who knows but I doubt it’s based on anything intelligent.

Now you’re stereotyping Italians.

What’s the next exclusive going to be from you? All Mexicans are rapists? All black people are criminals? You’re starting to come of as a racist.

 

[martcov]

<<I want to see that you understand…>>

What arrogance.

Well here’s a top-of-the-head list of some of the people on the Remain side. Would love to know what sort of motives do you think this dubious shower have mart.

Blair/Campbell/Clegg/Major/Ashdown/the Kinnocks/Christine Lagarde(stuck her nose in and gave us a lecture)/Obama/Eddie Izzard/Just about every multi-millionaire lefty luvvie/Michael OLeary.

…Could be here all day.

You must have loved the eloquent Danny Dyer’s reasoned thoughts on Brexit on Thursday. Suggest you google it.

Some good people there. How many visited Assange, Trump Tower and Miscow? How many are based in tax havens? And how many have bragged about leading people like yourself up the garden path?

I will Google it. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Sick Boy]

Our population has nearly caught up with France and Germany. Take a look at the size of France and Germany against the size of the UK. Then look at the population per square mile of England against Germany and France. So what have we done wrong?

Are you implying that it has a mistake to have invited migrants from around the world to come for decades to work in out healthcare system, to rebuild the country and economy after WW2? It appears you seem to abide by the one rule for one them mantra

 

[martcov]

Record amounts are going into the NHS. Yet you call it a lack of funds.

Billions paid into the system by EU workers who are generally younger than the older British population and don’t need as much care.

 

[martcov]

Our population has nearly caught up with France and Germany. Take a look at the size of France and Germany against the size of the UK. Then look at the population per square mile of England against Germany and France. So what have we done wrong?

I would say what have we done right? Created jobs, created wealth?

 

[skybluetony176]

You must have loved the eloquent Danny Dyer’s reasoned thoughts on Brexit on Thursday. Suggest you google it.

I have to say that I did. He got it bang on. The unfortunate thing is where Cameron left of with incompetence May picked the gauntlet back up and kept running with it.

 

[Grendel]

Hahaha what utter narrow minded bollocks.

Oh I agree - see Mart and Tony do as well

Juncker: Italians need to work harder and be less corrupt

 

[martcov]

Go on any website where people are free to express their views. See what people really think about the EU. Even pro EU outlets are the same.

So people are willing to March but not willing to spend a couple of minutes putting their views across?

Those who now want to leave have no reason to March. That will be down to how it all ends up. Maybe then reality will hit home.

Loads of remainers , unless you only read the Express and Mail forums. Breitbart will make you look like a passionate remainer. I should read some other forums to see what is going on if I were you.

 

[martcov]

Oh I agree - see Mart and Tony do as well

Juncker: Italians need to work harder and be less corrupt

Yes a glorious example of Juncker. Put that in Astute’s scrap book.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Of course not but it's due to a lack of funds being invested. I'm sure you're about to start scapegoating tax paying migrants again as the Tories want you to.

Where are the funds going to be spirited from? Pay more tax? Then the next thing will be education/crime/roads etc...then where do we spirit more funds from?

Some would no doubt be happy having us paying 60% tax to make everything work right. Many wouldn't.

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[martcov]

Record amounts are going into the NHS. Yet you call it a lack of funds.

In the next few years, but no one knows where the money is coming from. Can only mean more taxation and NI contributions.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

What has he changed for Germany ? He cannot change the 4 freedoms. Even if he wanted to.

'freedoms' makes me laugh. It's a misnomer, they're rules, not freedoms.
Freedom is what the British people fought two wars to retain.
We don't need a Germany-dominated EU to give us their twisted version of freedom.
Your EU need to wake up and realise the 5th freedom before it destroys them.
The freedom people have to vote to leave.

 

[Grendel]

So far this week you’ve celebrated a woman you work with for publicly hating the Germans, not sure what her hatred is based on but that doesn’t seem to matter to you so long as she hates them. Maybe she’s Mrs Boardman and they bombed her chippy, who knows but I doubt it’s based on anything intelligent.

Now you’re stereotyping Italians.

What’s the next exclusive going to be from you? All Mexicans are rapists? All black people are criminals? You’re starting to come of as a racist.

Is Mr Junker a racist Tony - that’s some accusation

 

[martcov]

No it hasn't. The way it has gone and the way the EU has shown itself to be has made many remainders want out.

Look at the BBC website. It used to be fully remain. Nearly all the comments were on the side of remain. Most of the stories are on the side of remain. Not bad for what is supposedly an unbiased site. Now look at the comments from readers. They have seen through the lies. The EU and the way they have tried to play us has caused anti EU feeling. It is shocking.

The EU have laid out the negotiating points. All we have to do is provide workable solutions. We are not able to. You call that playing us.

I see a lot of anti government feeling in the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

'freedoms' makes me laugh. It's a misnomer, they're rules, not freedoms.
Freedom is what the British people fought two wars to retain.
We don't need a Germany-dominated EU to give us their twisted version of freedom.
Your EU need to wake up and realise the 5th freedom before it destroys them.
The freedom people have to vote to leave.

The EU has very much been shaped by the influential UK as well, a fact that gets conviniently ignored.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

100,000s of people marching in London? Those who support the EU are arguably more passionate than those in other EU countries. I'm not ignoring the fact that most were apathetic before and the Remain campaign was a disaster.

You casually added an 's' to official estimates I saw at the time. Approx.100,000 is what I read & heard

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[martcov]

'freedoms' makes me laugh. It's a misnomer, they're rules, not freedoms.
Freedom is what the British people fought two wars to retain.
We don't need a Germany-dominated EU to give us their twisted version of freedom.
Your EU need to wake up and realise the 5th freedom before it destroys them.
The freedom people have to vote to leave.

Very amusing take. Usual bigoted attitude to Germany. Germans know more about freedoms than you do. The country was raised to the ground and a large chunk of territory and millions of lives lost the last time they followed a right wing nationalist. The EUis set up amongst other things, to guarantee people‘s rights and prevent extreme nationalism and right wing terror. That is what still unites Europe. A guarantee of a free press, democracy and an independent judiciary. Britain won’t take the guarantee of rights and the British right wing press attacks the independent judiciary as being „ enemies of the people „ and published lies and anti EU propaganda.

„Zuerst stirbt die Wahrheit, dann sterben die Leute“ that is the lesson Europe learned from the destruction of large parts of Europe.

 

[skybluetony176]

Oh I agree - see Mart and Tony do as well

Juncker: Italians need to work harder and be less corrupt

The irony here is that if you look back through this thread I doubt you’ll find one quote from me praising Junker or anything he’s said for that matter. You on the other hand could have your own thread for the amount of posts you’ve made telling us what an undesirable person he is yet remarkably you’ve just admitted being cut from the same cloth as him. That’s a special kind of stupid.

 

[martcov]

And why is that?

The EU says come out with a plan but we won't tell you what we will accept. But when you come out with a plan we will tell you no.

But you can keep the bad parts but none of the good ones. That way we might get you to stay.

It’s a negotiation. The UK had been asked, in effect, to make an offer. It cannot because it cannot agree on what it wants. Nothing to do with the EU.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The UK is the country which enacted the change in the relationship and the rights of its citizens, not the EU.

Someone can be proud to be British and have dual natonality of another country, to claim otherwise is narrow minded bollocks.

The EU could simply say as far as British citizen rights go - it will be business as usual post Brexit. They won't because as has been pointed out before...they want to send a message to other nations that the EU will make them suffer if they follow suit.
If & how much we might suffer , we shall have to wait & see

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[Sick Boy]

The EU could simply say as far as British citizen rights go - it will be business as usual post Brexit. They won't because as has been pointed out before...they want to send a message to other nations that the EU will make them suffer if they follow suit.
If & how much we might suffer , we shall have to wait & see

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Business as usual? In what way? Freedom of Movement? Then surely you believe the UK should say the same then as far as EU citizens go?

 

[martcov]

So by then we will know what Juncker and Barnier want?

They have published what they want. We have to say what we want and then negotiate.

 

[martcov]

The EU could simply say as far as British citizen rights go - it will be business as usual post Brexit. They won't because as has been pointed out before...they want to send a message to other nations that the EU will make them suffer if they follow suit.
If & how much we might suffer , we shall have to wait & see

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They won’t until May guarantees EU citizens rights.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It’s a negotiation. The UK had been asked, in effect, to make an offer. It cannot because it cannot agree on what it wants. Nothing to do with the EU.

Of course it is. There are 2 sides involved. The EU could actually make some offers of it's own rather than shrug it's shoulders & risk a 'no deal'

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[SIR ERNIE]

Very amusing take. Usual bigoted attitude to Germany. Germans know more about freedoms than you do. The country was raised to the ground and a large chunk of territory and millions of lives lost the last time they followed a right wing nationalist. The EUis set up amongst other things, to guarantee people‘s rights and prevent extreme nationalism and right wing terror. That is what still unites Europe. A guarantee of a free press, democracy and an independent judiciary. Britain won’t take the guarantee of rights and the British right wing press attacks the independent judiciary as being „ enemies of the people „ and published lies and anti EU propaganda.

„Zuerst stirbt die Wahrheit, dann sterben die Leute“ that is the lesson Europe learned from the destruction of large parts of Europe.

In case you hadn't noticed, Europe is more divided than at any time in the last 50 years.

 

[martcov]

So that means the NHS is doing well everywhere?

Getting seen straight away and getting seen the same day are not the same thing. Then you have appointment times for further treatment. They have grown.

So what is your POV on people being stranded in Italy and the EU wanting them to stay there?

186000 asylum seekers in Germany 2017. how many in England?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is Mr Junker a racist Tony - that’s some accusation

You’ve just admitted that you’re cut from the same cloth as him and provided evidence to back it up. Do you consider yourself as an undesirable person as you’ve been telling us for god knows how many pages he is?

 

[martcov]

Of course it is. There are 2 sides involved. The EU could actually make some offers of it's own rather than shrug it's shoulders & risk a 'no deal'

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It has said what it wants. We cannot say what we want. There is supposed to be a meeting at Chequers coming up soon to sort out a common cabinet agreement as to what we want.

Maybe then we can present something to the EU.

 

[martcov]

If only you had a point to make.

So I am deflecting? Just remember that you have done nothing but deflect. Someone constantly asking you the same questions because your story would fall to bits if you did answer isn't deflection.

Deflection is aiming at the bloke at the bottom because he has a different view to yourself but constantly defending the one at the top.

If it was drugs we were on about and not tax dodging Juncker would be the one taking it from the growers and exporting it to us. The one selling it by the ton. The one that makes it all happen. The ones you want to hang are the dealers at the end of the chain that live off the scraps. But you want the shark at the top who causes all the misery to not even get questioned. You come out with any old crap as a reason why he hasn't done anything wrong. Your excuse would be that he hasn't injected anyone so he isn't guilty.

You say we are leaving. So there is just the 27 of you left for solidarity. You got asked about the Polish. Yet you say you don't care about them. You blame Farage for everything. Yet the AfD is supposedly nothing.

Germany's population has stayed steady all the way through the population boom because of lower birth rate you say. Ours has exploded without even counting one birth. That is nothing you say. So how come the German population has stayed so steady when millions aim to live there? Because Juncker changes the rules for Germany. Just like a couple of days ago. Because he knows Merkel wouldn't survive if the same happens in Germany to here. Yes they took on 1m in one go. But since then? Isn't it strange that they are the strongest economy where most want to live but they don't end up in Germany. You keep telling us how weak we are but we get the population explosion.

Latest end of year figures on asylum seekers in Germany: 186000. How many did we take in?

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course it is. There are 2 sides involved. The EU could actually make some offers of it's own rather than shrug it's shoulders & risk a 'no deal'

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You’re basically asking the EU to bale us out of our decision to leave. That’s hardly taking back control. I suppose the plus side is that we can always blame the EU then for our decision. The government aren’t going to take ownership of the brexit problem so we may as we’ll put it on the EU and that negates those who voted leave of taking ownership of their vote also. Anything bad happens when we were in the EU it’s the EU’s fault, anything bad happens when we leave it’s the EU’s fault.

Can I ask all the brexit voters when are they going to take ownership of what they voted for and hold our government responsible for how we leave rather than the the EU?

 

[martcov]

You’re basically asking the EU to bale us out of our decision to leave. That’s hardly taking back control. I suppose the plus side is that we can always blame the EU then for our decision. The government aren’t going to take ownership of the brexit problem so we may as we’ll put it on the EU and that negates those who voted leave of taking ownership of their vote also. Anything bad happens when we were in the EU it’s the EU’s fault, anything bad happens when we leave it’s the EU’s fault.

Can I ask all the brexit voters when are they going to take ownership of what they voted for and hold our government responsible for how we leave rather than the the EU?

Ashcroft is still saying we should stick to no deal and the Germans will come running to us with a begging bowl. Maybe that is the tactic. Wait until 27 countries beg us to make them a deal.

Good luck with that.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Latest end of year figures on asylum seekers in Germany: 186000. How many did we take in?

You just told us. 186,000.

 

[Grendel]

You’ve just admitted that you’re cut from the same cloth as him and provided evidence to back it up. Do you consider yourself as an undesirable person as you’ve been telling us for god knows how many pages he is?

I haven’t Tony I just posted a comment to see a reaction then revealed who said it and what the reaction was. It was very revealing

I’d say a racist is someone who voted for a racist party like UKIP - oh hold on