Detention centres? Well if there are to be no open borders and they are not going to go back, then what else can you do with refugees? I await your solution. Merkel tried to help them by allowing uncontrolled immigration at her borders. The usual suspects fanned the flames of racism. The right are now in a position to exercise leverage. So what other solution do you propose?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (300 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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Detention centres? Well if there are to be no open borders and they are not going to go back, then what else can you do with refugees? I await your solution. Merkel tried to help them by allowing uncontrolled immigration at her borders. The usual suspects fanned the flames of racism. The right are now in a position to exercise leverage. So what other solution do you propose?
For a start they got their blackmail money via government investment in Northern Ireland to get their support in a support agreement. I said tail wagging the dog, in this case on the Northern Ireland border issue, and in Germany the CSU is wagging the dog on the Southern German border issue.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Please provide some evidence that there was a consensus in the uk government to adopt a recommendation from Ireland as its proposal and the DUP changed this.
Show me the cabinet minutes as I assume you are in possession of them.
Perhaps the lack of non EU immigration in Germany plays a part? In 2015 39% of net immigration in Germany was EU citizens. So, I don’t know why. Maybe the language? Perhaps the pro business employment laws in Britain. You would know more than I do. There are certainly no borders stopping EU citizens coming into Germany. My daughter is living with a Spaniard now. He got a job here straight away.
Hope not. It would set us back years and would cost a fortune to control.
Just read what the DUP have said on the subject. Arlene Foster made it very clear that they would never accept a sea border. That’s it end of story. Why do I need to see what the government said? The tail has spoken and the dog is trying to find a way round a hard border without having a sea border.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The usual suspects in Germany are the AfD that you say are not a problem. Now other parties have to show willing to stop them getting even more of the vote.
So you always say that open borders are the way to go. It saves time at borders. But borders are closing.
It isn't as simple as changing just one or two things. Priority should be given to those who need help. But it is given to those who have the right passport. And I have said the same thing countless times. If we need fruit pickers as you say we need we should have those who have escaped persecution to fill in. If we need skilled workers it should be open to anyone in the world. If you go somewhere that is through choice and not necessity you should be able to provide the proof that you are self sufficient.
But no. Not in the EU. You can be an economic migrant if you have an EU passport. But the plan is now to lock you up if you need help and you are from outside the EU.
It is not where the refugees land though... it is where they are first registered. Seehofer wants to turn back refugees registered elsewhere when they arrive in Germany. That is not the majority.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And you didn't see it coming?
What is the difference between an EU economic migrant and a non EU economic migrant? After all they are human beings who want the same thing.
So they want to go to Germany, France or the UK. Germany and France are easy if open borders are in use. So many will try. Just like many try daily to get to the UK when there is even more sea to get across.
Open borders are a great idea on paper. But in reality it is totally different.
Astute
Well-Known Member
But Seehofer holds weight. He has those who you say mean nothing backing him. It is getting bad although you won't admit it. Merkel is not strong these days. There are major problems ahead. Where they first register? That is why they are stranded in Italy, Greece and Spain.
Something has to change. And I am not for innocent people being locked up.
Wrong as usual. You have 3 months to be self sufficient in EU countries as an EU citizen. If not you can be deported.
Not everyone can work as a fruit picker and what happens after the season? A 70 year old refugee from Aleppo would be no help under your idea. What would his children and grand children do? Crazy idea.
Quick question. If you removed the 3,5 million EU “economic migrants” as you call them, what would happen to the UK economy seeing as there are only 1 million plus unemployed people in the UK? It obviously isn’t just skilled people that we need. Sounds like more Faragisms in your ideas.
Being locked up whilst your case is evaluated and a place for you is found.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Crazy idea?
OK. So no more EU economic migrants who are not of work age then? Of course it is as stupid as your comment.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So what? It’s evidence of nothing. Of course you’d have to see what a government uk view is - no one knows if foster stated she’d refuse to back the government on any other measure and bring it down or if the government wanted a sea border in the first place (which is highly unlikely) so as usual you made an assumption with zero factual evidence.
The FOM is reciprocal and we live in Europe so can take advantage of it if we wish. ‘They” have to get into Schengen first. Then “they” can travel freely, but are supposed to be staying where they are registered. As they are not locked up, it is difficult to have complete control.
Open borders is even better in practice. A fantastic achievement. There is no great incentive to do away with it.
What are you on about? What economic migrants are those? Most come to work from the EU, or are pensioners from places like the U.K.. If a pensioner from Romania comes he has to have an income or he could be deported after 3 months. Same with the UK pensioners in Spain, they cannot claim a Spanish pension.
Why did Davis the try and deny that had signed up to a backstop sea border? Why is May trying to get the cabinet agree to collect duties for the EU as an alternative to a sea border? The factual evidence is that Arlene Foster said no way and May is looking for an alternative. They signed up to a backstop sea border.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There is no evidence and it may have escaped your notice but the Brexit legislation will go through parliament without any dup support - well it clearly has escaped your attention
What was Arlene Foster‘s 11th hour intervention all about then?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Even if it means giving freedom of movement to those who you don't want to have freedom of movement?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I repeat brexit legislation is going through regardless of the DUP - you get the reason for that don’t you?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Much in the same way that the EU was on the verge of collapse and Austria, France and Holland would be following Britain's example? Oh, and how Labour were supposed to be wiped out for a generation after the last election?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The government and the wider British public couldn't give a toss about NI. I'm sure May would be more than happy for the north to be alligned with the Republic.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No I never gave it s thought when voting and wouldn’t now. They are wider considerations at stake
I don’t think under Eu rules they are allowed to join the republic are they? Guess they could go independent for two years and then see if they can apply for EU status. Seems to have frightened the Scots off.
Either that or they accept the solution that’s ultimately agreed.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I meant regulatory alignment with regards to the border. I think if both the Republic and NI wanted it to happen I think it would do, but I can't see that happening anytime soon.
Any news on the acceptable solution?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
They were last summer,not sure about now. That doesn't mean FoM is under threat for Europeans.
Is the plan to lock people up finalised? The SPD won’t wear that. Discussions are still ongoing in Germany and the period of 4 weeks was mentioned. There is still a long way to go.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Merkel says this…Merkel wants that…
Does anyone really care what she says or wants anymore?
Most of Europe couldn’t give a toss what Merkel says or wants and an ever increasing percentage of your fellow Germans feel the same, they despise her. Her credibility is gone, shot to pieces, she’s an object of ridicule.
It does seem ironic that the woman who most blame for the disastrous migrant crisis has the brass neck to now lecture European leaders on how they must deal with the mess.
Her time has gone. Good riddance.
FOM is one of the greatest post war achievements in Europe. Most humans appreciate freedom to go where they want. It is not possible in the whole world, but in 28 countries it is. An amazing situation. Losing it and recreating borders creates supply problems, delays and costs. Apart from the bureaucracy for individuals filling out visas.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Down to the EU really isn’t it. I’m the same way as they use the people of the southern counties they will use the Irish as a political football in the hope of getting Britain to tow the line.
May is no thatcher. Thatcher despite being pro Europe would have carried out the whole mandate in a more forceful way. The Eu is in some turmoil with member states ignoring its rules. Austria will ignore the rules soon and insist on border regulations to cross through Italy - Hungary will follow. It’s vulnerable.
The Eu should be told no no deal means no divorce payment and all ties cut. It will then be forced to impose greater contributions on already sceptical member states. All it will take is one to fall out of line and the house of cards will collapse.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Correct - at best merkel was an overblown town hall mayor - now she is a completely busted flush.
Germany didn’t invade or bomb the countries where the refugees are coming from. Merkel is not to blame for the refugee crisis. Who drew the borders round these countries without taking account of local populations after WW1?
The blame for a lot of this lies with the UK. What are we doing? Sweet FA. Only a few thousands taken in.
The other right wing countries have done the same as the U.K. and left Germany in the lurch. That is why there is a crisis. The only way to solve it is that there is a unified process to evaluate and share the burden. Populists can’t solve problems without creating backlash. It has to be multilateral.