The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (271 Viewers)

[martcov]

Nope. To get the referendum only one party offered it and they got a majority beyond all expectations.

The party in the election offering a pro Europe vision was battered into oblivion.

So if it’s elections that matter then the result was the same - a desire to vote on Europe followed by a desire to leave

Are you now claiming that Labour and the Tories stood on a one theme platform? Leave? You know damn well that the election wasn’t a referendum. You know that neither Labour not the Tories are 100% behind Brexit. Even looking at the voting figures, you can see that millions of remainers voted either labour or conservative presumably for other reasons than Brexit.

 

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[Astute]

Well yes it does. Not all leavers are ill informed racists. Some obviously are. Not all remainers were well informed. But, as he says, we would be economically better off remaining. The sovereignty we have regained is not that much as we controlled all major decisions anyway. We went to war. We could have sent EU citizens back after 3 months if they couldn’t support themselves. We could have controlled non EU migration, as an island we had border controls. We have our own currency. And so on and so on. Any trade deals we sign in the future will have give and take aspects which take some form of sovereignty from us. It was never about most of the people who voted leave. It was about dodgy nationalists such as Farage, dodgy tax evaders such as Ashcroft and various hedge fund owners and managers. At the end they ( a large portion of leave voters ) will have won some sovereignty, but be economically worse off at least in the short term ( as is now being admitted by leading leavers).

Now it’s all about the Tory party and we have no clear alternative.

So chaps, was it all worth it?

Would be better off?

I know you are more German than British. But how do you know the final result of what will happen? How do you know better than the professors that disagree with you and disagreed with the pro EU lot on what would happen if we voted leave? Because it wasn't the pro EU lot that got it right then either.

 

[Astute]

What part of sovereignty have you gained? Is the risk of an economic loss - confirmed by leading leavers - a price you want to pay? If leavers think that an economic hit is worth it for, say, deregulation of the curvature of bananas, that would be fine by me... if they were the only people to take a hit. Very heroic. Not heroic is forcing the remaining population to join them in taking a possible hit for regaining a small portion of sovereignty which may have to be traded in again to some extent in future trade deals.

Confirmed by leading leavers?

Who are they and what did they say?

 

[Astute]

A bit of wealth does help though.

You missed this on the Reiters site:
MPs ask Hammond and Carney for Brexit impact studies

I would like to know who the losers will be. I suspect I know the winners.

Oh yes Carney.

The one who is never wrong other than the previous times he has been wrong. Just like what would happen if we voted leave.

 

[Astute]

I answered that. You ignore the answer and ask Tony.

So what was your answer?

 

[Grendel]

Are you now claiming that Labour and the Tories stood on a one theme platform? Leave? You know damn well that the election wasn’t a referendum. You know that neither Labour not the Tories are 100% behind Brexit. Even looking at the voting figures, you can see that millions of remainers voted either labour or conservative presumably for other reasons than Brexit.

Wasn’t as an important issue as you make out then and I’m talking about the election under Cameron - they had a differentiation as they offered a referendum. Which they got abd they gave an answer.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Claiming that the nation wants Brexit is simply not true.

Well I can certainly claim the nation does not want to be in the EU...otherwise we wouldn't be leaving

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[martcov]

Would be better off?

I know you are more German than British. But how do you know the final result of what will happen? How do you know better than the professors that disagree with you and disagreed with the pro EU lot on what would happen if we voted leave? Because it wasn't the pro EU lot that got it right then either.

I agree with the majority including business, economics experts, the BofE, the port of Dover, the hauliers, HMRC, the Treasury and many others.

 

[Astute]

I am not playing with numbers. The nation is not behind Brexit. It wasn’t on the day leave won and it definitely isn’t now.

Leave won a vote, but they didn’t have the nation behind them. It was a narrow win, not an overwhelming victory.

How would you know? You haven't lived here since I was a kid. I am now a grandparent. You only read pro EU propaganda and ignore the rest.

 

[Astute]

I agree with the majority including business, economics experts, the BofE, the port of Dover, the hauliers, HMRC, the Treasury and many others.

So 100% of everyone agrees with you?

Then you expect us to take you seriously.

 

[martcov]

Well I can certainly claim the nation does not want to be in the EU...otherwise we wouldn't be leaving

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No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.

 

[martcov]

So 100% of everyone agrees with you?

Then you expect us to take you seriously.

I didn’t say that. You made it up. As usual.

 

[skybluetony176]

Anyhow. Meantime back in the real world the Chamber of Commerce has asked questions of the governments plans for a trade deal. I’m sure we can dismiss them as lefties though so for the lefties of us who are interested here’s some links to the hard questions

British Chambers of Commerce - Brexit: time running out for answers to firms’ real-world questions, says BCC

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit Practicalities Scorecard Final.pdf

 

[martcov]

How would you know? You haven't lived here since I was a kid. I am now a grandparent. You only read pro EU propaganda and ignore the rest.

We don’t have pro and anti EU papers here. We didn’t have this debate as we didn’t have a referendum.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The bananas argument comes from the leave side. Apparently that is an example of Brussels imposing it’s will on the U.K..

Really, as I had it explained to me by a very strong EU supporter...it was designed to protect EU Banana producers from cheaper imported ones from elsewhere...protectionism another one to add to the list

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[martcov]

Oh yes Carney.

The one who is never wrong other than the previous times he has been wrong. Just like what would happen if we voted leave.

He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.

 

[Grendel]

He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.

I think you’ve spent too much time reading the £9 million leaflet

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.

Circles as well as bananas then.

Those that didn't vote were doing so in the full knowledge that they would be going along with the end result...so they are ok with leaving

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[martcov]

Really, as I had it explained to me by a very strong EU supporter...it was designed to protect EU Banana producers from cheaper imported ones from elsewhere...protectionism another one to add to the list

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Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.

 

[Grendel]

Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.

Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving

 

[Astute]

No you cannot say that. We are leaving because 17,4 million want to, not because everyone else has automatically changed their mind and now wants to leave.

So 1.3m more voted leave than remain. Yet you know that more wanted to remain than stay?

So how do you work that out?

 

[Astute]

We don’t have pro and anti EU papers here. We didn’t have this debate as we didn’t have a referendum.

That is because the EU is set up to benefit Germany more than anyone else.

 

[Astute]

He wasn’t completely wrong though. He had to pump money in to save the pound and therefore the economy. The BoE reacted, if they hadn’t have we would be in worse trouble.

Did he?

I suppose house prices would have crashed, the unemployment rate would gave shot up, share prices would nosedive and the UK would have become a 3rd world place. Just what Carney said would happen.

So what you are saying is that after we Leave the EU Carney will pump money in. Then house prices will continue to go up, share prices will continue to go up and we will continue to have record employment?

No. Of course not. What you say only works one way in your world.

 

[Astute]

Oh, I see. Then you will be pleased to see our farmers asking for the dropping all EU farming regulations. NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.

We kept up with EU regulations with farming. Are you going to tell us all that the other countries in the EU did the same?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

NFU advised it’s members to vote remain. I wonder why.

Whats that you say......a corporate agribusiness lobby group, which guzzles public money in order to push the globalised agenda of mega-producers directly to the detriment of the little guy, the public & the environment, wanted to stay on the EU gravy train.......well i never....

 

[skybluetony176]

Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving

No comment on the 24 questions that the chamber of commerce has released? Maybe you’d like to share your expert opinion on each point?

 

[Grendel]

No comment on the 24 questions that the chamber of commerce has released? Maybe you’d like to share your expert opinion on each point?

You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?

 

[skybluetony176]

You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?

Not sure why that’s relevant to the 24 questions but seeing as you ask yes I have. Everytime we need a C of O and/or commercial invoices and packing lists legalising by the chamber of commerce for export jobs. I’m not going to ask you if you have because it’s irrelevant to the 24 questions that they’re asking the government. Distraction obviously needed because you don’t understand any of the 24 questions that they’ve asked. If by chance you do how about you stop being a penis and add something to a debate rather than going out of your way to ensure one doesn’t happen.

 

[martcov]

Circles as well as bananas then.

Those that didn't vote were doing so in the full knowledge that they would be going along with the end result...so they are ok with leaving

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No. Some of them thought we would vote remain so didn’t bother voting.

Whats that you say......a corporate agribusiness lobby group, which guzzles public money in order to push the globalised agenda of mega-producers directly to the detriment of the little guy, the public & the environment, wanted to stay on the EU gravy train.......well i never....

Which is what I was pointing out

 

[martcov]

That is because the EU is set up to benefit Germany more than anyone else.

Yes of course it is.., ask the Daily Express they’ll confirm it.

 

[martcov]

So 1.3m more voted leave than remain. Yet you know that more wanted to remain than stay?

So how do you work that out?

I didn’t say that. You made it up. As usual.

 

[martcov]

Did he?

I suppose house prices would have crashed, the unemployment rate would gave shot up, share prices would nosedive and the UK would have become a 3rd world place. Just what Carney said would happen.

So what you are saying is that after we Leave the EU Carney will pump money in. Then house prices will continue to go up, share prices will continue to go up and we will continue to have record employment?

No. Of course not. What you say only works one way in your world.

I am saying that after we leave without a deal, if that happens, the BoE will have to react as there will be a crisis. I wouldn’t mind betting that some hedge funds have already taken a position on that and are campaigning for a no deal situation.

 

[martcov]

Classic.

Because they are a mutual society and conducted a referendum of their membership - 52% votes remain so they adopted the will of the membership

You and Tony are truly gifts that never stop giving

Their advice is based on an opinion poll?

 

[martcov]

We kept up with EU regulations with farming. Are you going to tell us all that the other countries in the EU did the same?

No, I am saying they advise remain .. presumably to keep up this protectionism and there is no way they are not lobbying to keep it that way. So no change there if we leave.

 

[martcov]

You ever been to a chamber of commerce meeting Tony?

You ever answered a question on topic or without another question?