The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (298 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

We have a parliamentary democracy to avoid having constant referendums. The government has said we are leaving. Why on earth did they call it an advisory referendum and then promise they will carry out the result? It is either advisory or it is binding.

So some advised me to vote remain...others advised me to vote leave. Depending upon which advice I chose to follow - I voted. I cannot then return to the poll-booth & ask to change my vote.
The Gov't chose to follow the advice given by the majority vote. Please accept & get over it!!!


QUOTE="martcov, post: 1576303, member: 5800"] I believe that screwing the country up for something that may, or may not leave us in a better position is not worth the risk. We have full employment and our economy was doing well. Helping the people not doing so well would have been easier, and less risky, if we had voted for a different government, or the government had ended austerity policies, rather than leaving the EU. [/QUOTE]

The risk is only different to that we took in joining what became the EU in so much as the goalposts were a different size & in a totally different pkace



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[martcov]

No Mart...heaven forbid they should. So why does the rule book start changing when the German coalition look fragile due to internal problems?

Because the EU is too heavily run in tune with the German one perhaps?

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Hiw is it changed? Who wants it changed?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Some additional amendments have been made to the white paper which is encouraging

There has to be a mindset that the EU need the uk as much as we need them.

Nah-relax. Those ammendments will never become a reality because only 52% of the MPs that voted actually agreed to accept them.

I think that will be Mart/Tony & Co's stance.

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[martcov]

So some advised me to vote remain...others advised me to vote leave. Depending upon which advice I chose to follow - I voted. I cannot then return to the poll-booth & ask to change my vote.
The Gov't chose to follow the advice given by the majority vote. Please accept & get over it!!!


QUOTE="martcov, post: 1576303, member: 5800"]I believe that screwing the country up for something that may, or may not leave us in a better position is not worth the risk. We have full employment and our economy was doing well. Helping the people not doing so well would have been easier, and less risky, if we had voted for a different government, or the government had ended austerity policies, rather than leaving the EU.

The risk is only different to that we took in joining what became the EU in so much as the goalposts were a different size & in a totally different pkace



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You don’t understand the term advisory referendum. Advisory doesn’t mean you get to be advised. It means that it is not a binding referendum and it is the government that is being „advised“ as to what people want.

The risks involved in leaving the EU are massive after 45 years of becoming closely entwined. The risks of joining a trade block were far less than trying to go it alone after losing our empire at the time we joined.

 

[martcov]

Nah-relax. Those ammendments will never become a reality because only 52% of the MPs that voted actually agreed to accept them.

I think that will be Mart/Tony & Co's stance.

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Seeing as I have said many times that we are a parliamentary democracy and that parliament is sovereign, I think you are probably wrong... again.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Hiw is it changed? Who wants it changed?

Well they have now formed an agreement to implement the agreement they had on migration & secondary migration.

Most EU nations wanted it...but it is only actually becoming so in the threat of the German coalition being in crisis over the matter.

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[SkyblueBazza]

The risk is only different to that we took in joining what became the EU in so much as the goalposts were a different size & in a totally different pkace



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You don’t understand the term advisory referendum. Advisory doesn’t mean you get to be advised. It means that it is not a binding referendum and it is the government that is being „advised“ as to what people want.

The risks involved in leaving the EU are massive after 45 years of becoming closely entwined. The risks of joining a trade block were far less than trying to go it alone after losing our empire at the time we joined.[/QUOTE]I don't know how to respond to that. You are saying precisely the same thing. Well done on your interpretation on this occasion.

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[SkyblueBazza]

You don’t understand the term advisory referendum. Advisory doesn’t mean you get to be advised. It means that it is not a binding referendum and it is the government that is being „advised“ as to what people want.

The risks involved in leaving the EU are massive after 45 years of becoming closely entwined. The risks of joining a trade block were far less than trying to go it alone after losing our empire at the time we joined.

I don't know how to respond to that. You are saying precisely the same thing. Well done on your interpretation on this occasion.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]The point is Msrt...had the Gov't chose not to leave, there would be a big hoo-ha for not accepting & actioning the result. That 'will of the people' thing would have been wheeled out by your opposites. The Gov't had to choose a path based on the result. It has.

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[martcov]

Well they have now formed an agreement to implement the agreement they had on migration & secondary migration.

Most EU nations wanted it...but it is only actually becoming so in the threat of the German coalition being in crisis over the matter.

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Not true. Been discussing it for ages. From the beginning (2015).

 

[martcov]

I don't know how to respond to that. You are saying precisely the same thing. Well done on your interpretation on this occasion.

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The point is Msrt...had the Gov't chose not to leave, there would be a big hoo-ha for not accepting & actioning the result. That 'will of the people' thing would have been wheeled out by your opposites. The Gov't had to choose a path based on the result. It has.

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My point was, why say it is advisory and not binding in the first place if you were going to implement it anyway?

 

[skybluetony176]

I see from the News Japan has just signed a free trade deal with the EU, no tariffs maybe there's hope .
Impact on the UK car industry?

Just been reading about this. It’s going to eliminate 99% of tariffs between the EU and Japan apparently. That’s pretty comprehensive.

 

[martcov]

Meanwhile:

Brexit campaign Vote Leave fined and referred to police for breaking electoral law

 

[Captain Dart]

Yes it does Tony as 43 years ago there was a referendum and minutes at parliamentary meetings were suppressed so the true aims of the Eu project were not made public

Then it was a vote in a trade deal and anyone saying there would be a Brussels parliament and a desire for common laws and fiscal and monetary policy was considered a lunatic

I don't think you are old enough to remember. I remember posters up in Uni saying "Y.E.S" subtitled "Young European socialists" and clearly indicating the future was a more socialist Europe going forward together. At that time I was all for it. What they didn't show was the undemocratic mechanisms through which it would be ruled, they evolved from governments rigging the rules in a series of treaties (Maastrict, Lisbon etc.).

 

[martcov]

I don't think you are old enough to remember. I remember posters up in Uni saying "Y.E.S" subtitled "Young European socialists" and clearly indicating the future was a more socialist Europe going forward together. At that time I was all for it. What they didn't show was the undemocratic mechanisms through which it would be ruled, they evolved from governments rigging the rules in a series of treaties (Maastrict, Lisbon etc.).

I remember Benn and the socialist wing of labour being against it as it was a capitalist club.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Meanwhile:

Brexit campaign Vote Leave fined and referred to police for breaking electoral law

Yawn...meanwhile people are building for success...

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Vertical take-off technology could bring 'flying taxis' to the skies

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Britain unveils fighter jet model to rival Franco-German programme

The UK's Industrial Strategy - GOV.UK

YOU keep looking for negatives or stuff to discredit your supposedly beloved UK at the expense of the EU - I will keep generally quietly acknowledging the positives of mine!

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[martcov]

Yawn...meanwhile people are building for success...

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Vertical take-off technology could bring 'flying taxis' to the skies

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Britain unveils fighter jet model to rival Franco-German programme

The UK's Industrial Strategy - GOV.UK

YOU keep looking for negatives or stuff to discredit your supposedly beloved UK at the expense of the EU - I will keep generally quietly acknowledging the positives of mine!

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Deflection

 

[Grendel]

Deflection

There’s nothing to deflect

 

[Astute]

Not true. Been discussing it for ages. From the beginning (2015).

Yet in 2016 Juncker stated that the UK couldn't have a meeting to discuss it and would never be able to discuss it.

Deflection at the ready Mart?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Deflection

That is the nature of everything you have posted on this thread!!!

Deflection from: the UK leaving the EU; the referendum result; ANY shortcoming of the EU; in fact REALITY

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[skybluetony176]

Yawn...meanwhile people are building for success...

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Vertical take-off technology could bring 'flying taxis' to the skies

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Britain unveils fighter jet model to rival Franco-German programme

The UK's Industrial Strategy - GOV.UK

YOU keep looking for negatives or stuff to discredit your supposedly beloved UK at the expense of the EU - I will keep generally quietly acknowledging the positives of mine!

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You do realise that the jet fighter is a joint venture between the British, Italians and a company that was created when a French, Italian and British company merged? The plane does look great though on paper and will no doubt create/safeguard British jobs but will also do the same in the EU if it happens. It’s not a stand alone British project and won’t be a brexit success story if it happens purely because it is a joint venture that spans the EU.

The flying taxi also looks great but RR are yet to perfect the propulsion system and still don’t have an airframe partner to complete development. The interesting thing about the propulsion system for me is the possibility of it being used in a hybrid car, if they can perfect it and it’s fuel efficient when compared to the now traditional combustion engine/electric engine hybrid it could be a very exciting development.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yawn...meanwhile people are building for success...

Oath especially.

 

[Captain Dart]

You do realise that the jet fighter is a joint venture between the British, Italians and a company that was created when a French, Italian and British company merged? The plane does look great though on paper and will no doubt create/safeguard British jobs but will also do the same in the EU if it happens. It’s not a stand alone British project and won’t be a brexit success story if it happens purely because it is a joint venture that spans the EU.

Concorde predates the EU, there is no real barrier to multi national cooperation on any project, just need the will to do it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Concorde predates the EU, there is no real barrier to multi national cooperation on any project, just need the will to do it.

I never said otherwise.

 

[martcov]

Yet in 2016 Juncker stated that the UK couldn't have a meeting to discuss it and would never be able to discuss it.

Deflection at the ready Mart?

Two different things. You are talking about FOM, and everyone else is talking a out non EU especially refugees.

 

[martcov]

Yawn...meanwhile people are building for success...

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Vertical take-off technology could bring 'flying taxis' to the skies

Yahoo is now part of Oath
Britain unveils fighter jet model to rival Franco-German programme

The UK's Industrial Strategy - GOV.UK

YOU keep looking for negatives or stuff to discredit your supposedly beloved UK at the expense of the EU - I will keep generally quietly acknowledging the positives of mine!

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The report is about scum, and not my beloved UK. If they get into trouble that is good for my beloved UK. The electoral commission and the police are there to protect people like you, and the rest of my beloved UK.

 

[martcov]

That is the nature of everything you have posted on this thread!!!

Deflection from: the UK leaving the EU; the referendum result; ANY shortcoming of the EU; in fact REALITY

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Well, actually no. The leave campaign is not the EU or the UK. It did effect the fairness of the referendum though.

 

[Grendel]

Well, actually no. The leave campaign is not the EU or the UK. It did effect the fairness of the referendum though.

Can you prove this?

 

[skybluetony176]

Can you prove this?

Why else would the leave campaign have broke the law? If not to gain votes for leave.

 

[Grendel]

Why else would the leave campaign have broke the law? If not to gain votes for leave.

Not the question I asked

 

[Captain Dart]

Why else would the leave campaign have broke the law? If not to gain votes for leave.

Frankly I think the government broke the law by sending a leaflet to every household saying vote remain.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Frankly I think the government broke the law by sending a leaflet to every household saying vote remain.

I was uncomfortable about that at the time, and suspect that actually helped push some to vote leave.

Two wrongs don't make a right however, and the fact they lost £12.5k [edit!] of invoces shows how good ther calculatons were on other things...

 

[Grendel]

I was uncomfortable about that at the time, and suspect that actually helped push some to vote leave.

Two wrongs don't make a right however, and the fact they lost £12.5mil of invoces shows how good ther calculatons were on other things...

It was a blatant way for the Remain campaign to get round spending restrictions and gave them a huge advantage

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It was a blatant way for the Remain campaign to get round spending restrictions and gave them a huge advantage

Are you happy that a campaign telling people about the financial benefits of leaving the EU can manage to mislay £12.5mil of invoices? Does that strike you as competent?

 

[Grendel]

Are you happy that a campaign telling people about the financial benefits of leaving the EU can manage to mislay £12.5mil of invoices? Does that strike you as competent?

it was £12k not million surely

 

[Deleted member 5849]

it was £12k not million surely

Fair point, well made

Are you happy with me missing a decimal point? Would you be content if I ended up chancellor of the exchequer?