The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (256 Viewers)

[Astute]

To be fair Farage is in the news quite often and is today singing the praises of UKIP getting involved in Bannon's project and Tommy Robinson potentially getting g a leading role in a UK wing of it.

Every day though?

No he isn't. He isn't newsworthy these days. But some will try to disagree.

UKIP are finished unless we end up staying in the EU. Then I dread to think what will happen. They could come back even stronger than before. What opposition would they have?

 

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[torchomatic]

What do you want explaining?

Why I think the way that the EU is run is corrupt?

If you can read it is self explanatory. How can you deny it? Even the most pro EU can do whatever they want to do supporters can't defend them on this.

Ah, right. I should be worried because YOU think it is corrupt. Ok, got that.

 

[Sick Boy]

How so? Mart is denying very obvious things that even the EU pro press and Parliament are critical of.

I’ve never wanted to be in the EU and have felt that way since the Maastricht treaty so how have I been brainwashed?

Is he not entitled to his own opinion and has to go along with the press on everything? It doesn't make someone brainwashed.

We then have certain posters posting opinion pieces as facts and then claiming their opinions are 'the truth'. The best yet was trying to claim that the Telegraph is a remain paper.

 

[Sick Boy]

Every day though?

No he isn't. He isn't newsworthy these days. But some will try to disagree.

UKIP are finished unless we end up staying in the EU. Then I dread to think what will happen. They could come back even stronger than before. What opposition would they have?

Take a look at my post from yesterday and the opportunity for a far right party to fill a void and become the 3rd party.

Farage is very much in the news each week.

 

[Astute]

It's strange how brainwashing is applied to the side you're opposed to. The likes of yourself, Astute and others could be described in much the same way.

Explain yourself.

Me brainwashed? I back up what I say with evidence. Others on here play at follow the leader and backslap each other. They wait 24 hours and then try to deny the evidence that has been put in front of them.

Brainwashed comes to people who only look at one side and rubbish the other side whatever the evidence. But you always agree with them so will defend them.

 

[Sick Boy]

Explain yourself.

Me brainwashed? I back up what I say with evidence. Others on here play at follow the leader and backslap each other. They wait 24 hours and then try to deny the evidence that has been put in front of them.

Brainwashed comes to people who only look at one side and rubbish the other side whatever the evidence. But you always agree with them so will defend them.

I don't always agree with them on everything, it's not how politics works.

You use opinion pieces as evidence and claim your opinion on it to be the truth.

 

[Astute]

Take a look at my post from yesterday and the opportunity for a far right party to fill a void and become the 3rd party.

Farage is very much in the news each week.

Each week?

Mart said every day. I said not every day. And most of the time it is a comment that has been made at some stage.

As I said he isn't newsworthy. There is no use of him.

 

[Grendel]

Is he not entitled to his own opinion and has to go along with the press on everything? It doesn't make someone brainwashed.

We then have certain posters posting opinion pieces as facts and then claiming their opinions are 'the truth'. The best yet was trying to claim that the Telegraph is a remain paper.

He is on the one hand saying that you cannot accept the appointment was dubious as there is no evidence. Given that the evidence is from an internal enquiry it’s not likely. However, when even the most pro Eu states smell a rat the denial shows him in a very disturbing light.

All this is about is how life will impact Mart. He doesn’t care anymore about Britain than he does about the people of nations that the EU has thrown under a bus.

Mart cares about Mart and how this act may threaten his ability to go between the uk and Germany.

It’s not about Brexit it’s about Martlfe.

 

[Astute]

I don't always agree with them on everything, it's not how politics works.

You use opinion pieces as evidence and claim your opinion on it to be the truth.

So every news outlet said the same. People of the EU said the same

So how could everything be opinion pieces?

Opinion pieces are when something is said about someone like Farage. But that is allowed. Work that one out.

 

[Sick Boy]

Each week?

Mart said every day. I said not every day. And most of the time it is a comment that has been made at some stage.

As I said he isn't newsworthy. There is no use of him.

What's your opinion on Bannon trying to interfere with European politics and push a far-right agenda?

Do you think the EU is to blame for the rise of the alt right in America?

 

[Astute]

What's your opinion on Bannon trying to interfere with European politics and push a far-right agenda?

Do you think the EU is to blame for the rise of the alt right in America?

Lots of people try to interfere. If you are not involved you should keep out of it. That includes everyone from every country that is not naturally involved.

And what is wrong with that?

 

[martcov]

Lol so just like FIFA corruption wasn’t exposed for decades after the event and before that was just a view.

Mugawbwe won elections in the same way. It was only a view they were undemocratic.

So even though there was outrage through the parliament to his appointment you salute the flag.

Even though very pro European publications have condemned the appointment you salute the appointment of someone who is described as Eus Rasputin you think it’s ok.

Fucking hell

What are you on about now? It is a view. I would have thought there was evidence of bribery, and it would have been brought out.

I have not saluted the guy or approved of the scandal. Just asking questions and trying to put it in perspective.

The difference with FIFA was that it was allowed to go on as everyone was getting some benefit. BoJo and the government had agreed to FIFA‘s conditions for the World Cup in England. Also, England played Trinidad as a favour for Warner. His son had catering rights and he sold the TV rights. It was no great secret, but if you wanted the World Cup or whatever, you said nothing. FIFA only became the bad guys after Blatter and Co cashed in twice in one hit before he wanted to retire. Until then, it was scandal after scandal, but they always got away with it.

Totally different set up. Taking one example doesn’t compare with FIFA as a whole.

Whatever.... the only reason anyone here is bothered ( apart from him being a German and contact of Juncker ), is that he will have an influence on the tone of the Brexit negotiations.

If there were no Brexit, we would not be in these negotiations. I don’t blame him for our mess, I blame the people behind the leave campaign for the damage. And of course Cameron for giving them the chance.

 

[martcov]

Mart is like a member of Isis. He is brainwashed. It’s ironic that someone who constantly talks about media manipulation is the most media manipulated person on here.

Actually you are factually wrong. I was not subjected to the UK media onslaught from leave during the referendum campaign. Probably because FB and others are not interested in me as a German account. I am doing catchup now that it has happened. It is more the opposite of being brainwashed by either side. I have to keep fact check ing on here, because there are things that I have never heard before and they tend to be bullshit. Some on here keep spewing Faragisms as if they are facts because they have heard them so often, they must be.

 

[Grendel]

Actually you are factually wrong. I was not subjected to the UK media onslaught from leave during the referendum campaign. Probably because FB and others are not interested in me as a German account. I am doing catchup now that it has happened. It is more the opposite of being brainwashed by either side. I have to keep fact check ing on here, because there are things that I have never heard before and they tend to be bullshit. Some on here keep spewing Faragisms as if they are facts because they have heard them so often, they must be.

Of course Mart. We all believe you.

 

[martcov]

Lots of people try to interfere. If you are not involved you should keep out of it. That includes everyone from every country that is not naturally involved.

And what is wrong with that?

You better tell Farage as well then because he has made it his duty to go round other countries spewing his bile.

 

[Westendlad]

I don't believe this! 508 pages in and we still haven't bought Conor Chaplin.

Jimmy hill is the cause of this.

 

[martcov]

Of course Mart. We all believe you.

You know full well I am in Germany. Anyone here will explain what targeting is. I am not on their radar.

 

[Grendel]

You know full well I am in Germany. Anyone here will explain what targeting is. I am not on their radar.

Of course not Mart. Media targeting only occurred in the uk exclusively to Brexit audiences.

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course not Mart. Media targeting only occurred in the uk exclusively to Brexit audiences.

The FB targeting would only have been set to show in the UK, and there should have been separate campaigns for these audiences but it just keeps getting murkier and murkier.

Brexit youth group's Facebook ads reached mostly older audience

Still, it's a good distraction away from the more important news to claim that a poster on a football forum is brainwashed.

 

[martcov]

Of course not Mart. Media targeting only occurred in the uk exclusively to Brexit audiences.

Why would they target German accounts? Germans could not vote anyway. Most Germans think Brexit is stupid. I don’t think the leave level of argumentation would change their minds about the EU.

There is no push for a referendum on the EU here. No interest at all. No problems with FOM. Foreigners are not blamed for the lack of cheap housing. Most new flats or houses are aimed at people with more money. That is the main problem. Not enough social housing. That’s what people are aggrieved at. People here just don’t get having a referendum for no specific reason. Are they all brainwashed? Or, is the press here more concerned with real problems as opposed to just making people angry for their own agendas?

I expect a barrage of bullshit as Bannon and his backers step up their campaign for far right representation in the EU parliament.

 

[Astute]

Actually you are factually wrong. I was not subjected to the UK media onslaught from leave during the referendum campaign. Probably because FB and others are not interested in me as a German account. I am doing catchup now that it has happened. It is more the opposite of being brainwashed by either side. I have to keep fact check ing on here, because there are things that I have never heard before and they tend to be bullshit. Some on here keep spewing Faragisms as if they are facts because they have heard them so often, they must be.

Where am I factually wrong?

I can list where you are factually wrong if you like.

 

[Astute]

What are you on about now? It is a view. I would have thought there was evidence of bribery, and it would have been brought out.

I have not saluted the guy or approved of the scandal. Just asking questions and trying to put it in perspective.

Of course you are trying to put it in perspective. It is something that can't be defended. The only place I have seen anyone try to defend It is on SBT :shifty:

And your idea was saying Farage is in the media every day. He isn't. But it puts nothing in perspective.

Even though much of the way the EU is corrupt I still think we would be better off in it. Especially in the short term. Medium term is debatable.

But it doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to what is wrong with the EU.

 

[Astute]

The FB targeting would only have been set to show in the UK, and there should have been separate campaigns for these audiences but it just keeps getting murkier and murkier.

Brexit youth group's Facebook ads reached mostly older audience

Still, it's a good distraction away from the more important news to claim that a poster on a football forum is brainwashed.

So you don't believe that I have been brainwashed like has been alleged?

So we are back onto campaigns? Can we mention how bad both sides were so I don't have to continue to correct things. I have more important things to think about like corruptness in the EU

 

[Astute]

I expect a barrage of bullshit as Bannon and his backers step up their campaign for far right representation in the EU parliament.

So where do you stand with this?

The far right got so many votes in Germany that they are the leading opposition in your country. Is this factually correct?

So should they have the third largest amount of seats in Germany?

Should there be similar representation of how people voted in their countries and who stands for them in the EU?

My gut feeling is no. But I do believe in freedom of speech. As long as the freedom to say what you want does not include insulting others. And some right wingers are not as bad as others. Should they all get silenced because of the worse of them?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Explain. No time for riddles. I blame Farage not for winning, but for the damage done.

Exactly...look beyond Farage & you find a string of EU policies that simply facilitated Farage's success. Just like in the current environment - a chance to strengthen bonds, missed in search of individual's ego fulfilment...making their own mark on EU history

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[martcov]

So where do you stand with this?

The far right got so many votes in Germany that they are the leading opposition in your country. Is this factually correct?

So should they have the third largest amount of seats in Germany?

Should there be similar representation of how people voted in their countries and who stands for them in the EU?

My gut feeling is no. But I do believe in freedom of speech. As long as the freedom to say what you want does not include insulting others. And some right wingers are not as bad as others. Should they all get silenced because of the worse of them?

My feeling is don’t vote for them. They are populists offering easy solutions and false promises to get to power.

The MEPs are selected by the EU Parliament vote on a PR basis. MEPs vote in political groups not countries. If people want AfD in Brussels they will vote for them. I won’t. I always vote in Europa elections, but most people don’t. Unfortunately the main parties don’t send their best people to Brussels and that gives the minority parties a chance to get in.

The far right do have the third most seats. You cannot deny them the right to take their seats, but you don’t have to work with them.

 

[martcov]

Exactly...look beyond Farage & you find a string of EU policies that simply facilitated Farage's success. Just like in the current environment - a chance to strengthen bonds, missed in search of individual's ego fulfilment...making their own mark on EU history

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He also invented things like EU membership for Turkey and millions of Turks coming to the UK, or more than the population of Romania coming.

Juncker’s Coup would have gone unnoticed a few years ago. So, people are taking notice of the EU and it’s importance for Europe.

I am just hoping enough people get up and vote to stop the far right, and that the major parties put up top candidates and push for MEPs. The only way to teach Bannon, Farage and co a lesson.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To be fair Farage is in the news quite often and is today singing the praises of UKIP getting involved in Bannon's project and Tommy Robinson potentially getting g a leading role in a UK wing of it.

Had you not said anythong about it how many of us would have known. Keep giving them the spotlight & ignore the cracks developing in the EU. How long before it is too late to salvage it?

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[martcov]

Of course you are trying to put it in perspective. It is something that can't be defended. The only place I have seen anyone try to defend It is on SBT :shifty:

And your idea was saying Farage is in the media every day. He isn't. But it puts nothing in perspective.

Even though much of the way the EU is corrupt I still think we would be better off in it. Especially in the short term. Medium term is debatable.

But it doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to what is wrong with the EU.

Defend what? Nobody is defending Juncker’s coup. Just that the reality is that it has been upheld.

Farage is in the media everyday- sometimes he is on Fox News as he is busy liasing with the American right and spreading his fake news and lies there. But, as soon as he gets back he is on LBCor being quoted for supporting Tommy Robinson or today for praising his mate Bannon‘s plan.

It goes without saying that we should be in the EU, especially with Trump and Bannon around. No, we should not be turning a blind eye to what happens in the EU. We should be up there fighting to keep the chancers like Farage and Bannon out of it completely. That includes them butting in on an EU election which has fxxk all to do with them,

 

[martcov]

Had you not said anythong about it how many of us would have known. Keep giving them the spotlight & ignore the cracks developing in the EU. How long before it is too late to salvage it?

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What cracks? It is functioning well. No one is leaving the EU or the Euro. Countries are waiting to get in both.

What is cracked is the UK. How long before the government collapses or there is a crisis in Northern Ireland or Scotland because of Brexit? Brexit has ruined the country. We’re getting nowhere fast. Whatever last minute deal we get will be worse than we have now. The WTO will cut our trading quotas. The EU will not let us have our cake and eat it. If we piss them off they may impose a sort of work to rule at channel ports which will swiftly knock us out.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you don't believe that I have been brainwashed like has been alleged?

So we are back onto campaigns? Can we mention how bad both sides were so I don't have to continue to correct things. I have more important things to think about like corruptness in the EU

I was talking about FB campaigns and the Leave campaigns being reported to the police. I suppose you will have a post truth fact soon to blame the Remain campaign for that as well

 

[Sick Boy]

Had you not said anythong about it how many of us would have known. Keep giving them the spotlight & ignore the cracks developing in the EU. How long before it is too late to salvage it?

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It's not my fault that you are unable to keep up with important current affairs.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Actually you are factually wrong. I was not subjected to the UK media onslaught from leave during the referendum campaign. Probably because FB and others are not interested in me as a German account. I am doing catchup now that it has happened. It is more the opposite of being brainwashed by either side. I have to keep fact check ing on here, because there are things that I have never heard before and they tend to be bullshit. Some on here keep spewing Faragisms as if they are facts because they have heard them so often, they must be.

More young people are on Facebook, yet more young people voted remain.

On my Facebook all there was were 60-80% of people posting statuses pushing for us to stay in the EU and calling out anyone that wanted to vote leave as racists, idiots and other attractive buzzwords. The Russian bots thing is nonsense really as the most influence I had as a 26 year old on Facebook was other people I knew or went to school with trying to make it as uncomfortable as possible to even think about voting to leave.

It also made me laugh how so many of those people posting statuses put an embarrassing statement at the end saying 'it's ok to vote whichever way you want', when that is clearly what they didn't mean. My hunch has since been proved correct now you see so many of them gagging for a second referendum.

 

[Captain Dart]

The bonkers guy just took a full hour over 2 video to spout a load of bollocks, its much simpler than that.

 

[Sick Boy]

More young people are on Facebook, yet more young people voted remain.

On my Facebook all there was were 60-80% of people posting statuses pushing for us to stay in the EU and calling out anyone that wanted to vote leave as racists, idiots and other attractive buzzwords. The Russian bots thing is nonsense really as the most influence I had as a 26 year old on Facebook was other people I knew or went to school with trying to make it as uncomfortable as possible to even think about voting to leave.

It also made me laugh how so many of those people posting statuses put an embarrassing statement at the end saying 'it's ok to vote whichever way you want', when that is clearly what they didn't mean. My hunch has since been proved correct now you see so many of them gagging for a second referendum.

The highest number are aged 25-34, thanks for the label of being young still.

The paid for ads would still have been shared with the younger audience organically by the older demographic though.

The issue is with ads and bots that contain deliberate fake news to rile people up. Whatever side it's aimed at is not acceptable at all and ends up being regurgitated as fact.

Even though I do these sorts of Ads myself, there's no way I would ever get a FB account again due to how it all works. I got one in 2006 and deleted it in 2008.