The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (339 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

So when did the UK bluff?

We certainly didn't know how bent the EU is. We are finding out as we go along.

How would we not know considering it is something this country has helped to shape?

 

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[Astute]

The flyers were not part of the remain campaign and were issued by the government. I don't vote for them, so don't look at me!

I'd have rather seen the money go to a foodbank to make up for their policies.

But they were a part of the remain campaign.

If they were not then what was the use of them?

 

[Astute]

It wasn’t remain. It was the government laying out why it was for remain and it was outside of the campaign. It also backfired because it wasn’t a strategic marketing tool and was too neutral as opposed to leave propaganda. Wasn’t designed to appeal to positive emotions.. the warnings were dismissed as fear mongering.

So it was all about remaining but wasn't a part of the remain campaign? :wideyed:

The whole remain campaign was about fear. So the flyers fitted in well. Just like a lot of the leave campaign was based on fear.

If for some reason there was another vote I would like to have the fear factor taken out of it. But most still having a go at the result are still going on the lines of the fear factor.

 

[Astute]

You said you were unaware of the issues surrounding Facebook and the referendum, not me.

Yes I was aware of him but don't pretend the EU is perfect either, as I have said countless times. Personally, I find the inherited power of monarchies to be wrong as well.

Do you?

No. I said I didn't know about adverts on there. So you added more than I said.

 

[Astute]

How would we not know considering it is something this country has helped to shape?

We have helped to shape?

So how do we know how to leave? You say we know what is allowed.

 

[martcov]

Something completely different in the real world compared to MartWorld...of that I am sure

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Answer the question.

 

[Grendel]

Electoral Commission | Vote Leave fined and referred to the police for breaking electoral law

I think BeLeave's campaign was supposed to be targeting younger audiences but the Ads actually got served to a much older demographic.

It’s largely irrelevant and a smokescreen. The Labour Party openly admit to fronting a million in their pro remain campaign, the conservatives targeted a campaign to get young people signed up to be able to vote and there is the leaflet.

If you research any independent analysis the rules were massively skewed towards the remain campaign.

 

[martcov]

So it was all about remaining but wasn't a part of the remain campaign? :wideyed:

The whole remain campaign was about fear. So the flyers fitted in well. Just like a lot of the leave campaign was based on fear.

If for some reason there was another vote I would like to have the fear factor taken out of it. But most still having a go at the result are still going on the lines of the fear factor.

The majority of people, 78%, think Brexit is being handled badly.

Half favour a second referendum based on what we now know.

There are plenty of reasons for having a go. The main one being things are not going as people expected.

 

[Astute]

And though I believe the provisions ARE already in place (for similar events resulting from overseas war/disease of crops abroad etc)...since some believe what officials are quoted as saying - here is one from Reuters...
'The spokesman added that, contrary to some media reports, there were no plans to involve the army in its 'no deal' provisions, especially regarding food supplies.'
Or if you want the whole article..."Britain to set out 'sensible precautions' for no deal Brexit - May's spokesman" - Britain to set out 'sensible precautions' for no deal Brexit -...

So when it comes to claiming others have been led up the garden path - think about yourselves, & consider things before leaping in to score points

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It is the fear factor being used again.

We will run out of food and medicine if we leave and the army will take over.

Yeah OK.

Last week it was all about hoarding food and medicine in case it was needed. And that was also the wrong thing to do.

 

[Grendel]

Answer the question.

Why should he you arrogant jerk? The reality is if Merkel and co told you the world is flat you’d cancel a round the world cruise.

Whatever answer is given you’d stick your figures in your ears and respond back with further arrogant twaddle.

 

[Astute]

The majority of people, 78%, think Brexit is being handled badly.

Half favour a second referendum based on what we now know.

There are plenty of reasons for having a go. The main one being things are not going as people expected.

Brexit IS being handled badly. But of course you will say that the EU isn't guilty of anything.

It could be so easy. The UK would like it to be easier. But the EU have motives where they want it to be as difficult as possible.

 

[Sick Boy]

But they were a part of the remain campaign.

If they were not then what was the use of them?

Like Boris Johnson, Mike Gove etc?

 

[Astute]

Like Boris Johnson, Mike Gove etc?

Don't get what you mean.

 

[Sick Boy]

Brexit IS being handled badly. But of course you will say that the EU isn't guilty of anything.

It could be so easy. The UK would like it to be easier. But the EU have motives where they want it to be as difficult as possible.

Of course the UK would like to be easier, so it could cherry pick and get the best of both worlds. Why should the EU change its 4 freedoms to accommodate a country leaving and that is supposedly going to reap the rewards of going it alone.

Worryingly though, Fox claimed these would be the easiest negotiations yet but the UK isn't doing too well. Imagine the UK up against Trump hahaha

 

[Grendel]

Of course the UK would like to be easier, so it could cherry pick and get the best of both worlds. Why should the EU change its 4 freedoms to accommodate a country leaving and that is supposedly going to reap the rewards of going it alone.

Worryingly though, Fox claimed these would be the easiest negotiations yet but the UK isn't doing too well. Imagine the UK up against Trump hahaha

Well if they value their 4 freedoms they’d do it as it would in trade terms benefit their countries.

The argument falls apart because if Britain was independent and offered the Eu a trade deal it now wants they’d fall over themselves to make it happen.

 

[martcov]

It’s largely irrelevant and a smokescreen. The Labour Party openly admit to fronting a million in their pro remain campaign, the conservatives targeted a campaign to get young people signed up to be able to vote and there is the leaflet.

If you research any independent analysis the rules were massively skewed towards the remain campaign.

Good. Then if they did anything illegal it will also be investigated.

The modern use of media, papers aiming to make people angry rather than informing them factually, and social media targeting ruthlessly with lies and fake news swung it back in favour of leave. As they themselves admit, or brag about.

Now that the spivs have sold leave on a „no money back, no guarantee“ basis, which they are in fact admitting, in part, by saying that there will be short term hardship. Sorry guv, democracy comes at a price, the EU‘s fault, May‘s fault etc.. In 50 years we will be booming- quote: Rees Mogg.

 

[Sick Boy]

We have helped to shape?

So how do we know how to leave? You say we know what is allowed.

There are the 4 freedoms and red flags for the EU. If the Government is unaware of what is and what is not allowed, then that's incredibly concerned and shows how incompetent they are.

Anyway, catch you later back off down the beach for a final afternoon of sunburn!

 

[CCFCSteve]

If we make a success of leaving, do you think other countries will risk it? We are the country with a trading history, a world financial capital and geographically we have no land borders with millions crossing them to and from work in another country every day. We have more going for us than most. Us succeeding won’t mean Estonia or Hungary leaving ( as an example). People are not bothered about your issues. They want to live and work with their freedoms and one single currency so they can ship in other countries bordering theirs if they find it cheaper. NRW gets millions in shopping by Dutch people coming to Germany for certain goods. It is normal here to cross EU borders. I doubt most people want the EU to end. Britain has been whipped up to an anti EU frenzy by the constant targeting of anti EU propaganda and the Brexit press. It doesn’t reflect the rest of Europe.

Ive always agreed with this view ie that the EU need to make it difficult for the UK so others don't follow. The argument is flawed. The UK is a major net importer from the EU (so with tariffs a net tax receiver), isn't in the Euro or Shengen and is a large economy in its own right etc etc. For other countries to leave (most likely I'm guessing someone like Italy) the impact would be far greater.That doesn't mean that significant proportions of certain EU countries public don't necessarily want it, but the ramifications of leaving the Euro, let alone the other aspects are indeterminable.

I'm therefore wondering why the EU isn't more flexible. Protecting the "four freedoms" always appeared to be about sending a message to other nations that they cant be in the "club" without them. If they showed flexibility with the UK, others would follow, however, as you correctly point out this is very unlikely to be the case as the impact on the likely leavers would be significant and the UK is very much a "special case" as we're not in the Euro etc etc.

All very strange and difficult to understand peoples true motives on both sides. I'd imagine from the EUs perspective one of the reasons for their approach is trying to ensure the UK doesn't have an unfair competitive (trade) advantage, which is why I would've liked Hammond to make the point that in a "no deal" scenario we would immediately have to consider reducing corporate tax rates and regulation to protect the economy and make it attractive for companies to still operate from here. Also that without the "divorce bill" and with future net revenues from tariffs they would subsidise and support those large exporters to the EU and those who have historically received EU grants.

Id hope that this would ensure a sensible deal is agreed as a close relationship is better than none at all.

 

[Grendel]

Good. Then if they did anything illegal it will also be investigated.

The modern use of media, papers aiming to make people angry rather than informing them factually, and social media targeting ruthlessly with lies and fake news swung it back in favour of leave. As they themselves admit, or brag about.

Now that the spivs have sold leave on a „no money back, no guarantee“ basis, which they are in fact admitting, in part, by saying that there will be short term hardship. Sorry guv, democracy comes at a price, the EU‘s fault, May‘s fault etc.. In 50 years we will be booming- quote: Rees Mogg.

Why do you come across as a little child whose had his train set taken away?

 

[martcov]

Why should he you arrogant jerk? The reality is if Merkel and co told you the world is flat you’d cancel a round the world cruise.

Whatever answer is given you’d stick your figures in your ears and respond back with further arrogant twaddle.

What that got to do with anything? Just your usual insults. Tosser. There’s one back. Now explain what an army on standby is, as opposed to it‘s normal state. Bazza doesn’t know the difference.

 

[martcov]

Well if they value their 4 freedoms they’d do it as it would in trade terms benefit their countries.

The argument falls apart because if Britain was independent and offered the Eu a trade deal it now wants they’d fall over themselves to make it happen.

What trade deal does the EU now want? WTO?

 

[martcov]

Why do you come across as a little child whose had his train set taken away?

Because you are a little child and can’t understand grown ups.

 

[Grendel]

What that got to do with anything? Just your usual insults. Tosser. There’s one back. Now explain what an army on standby is, as opposed to it‘s normal state. Bazza doesn’t know the difference.

His response articulated the point perfectly. It’s fake news and the question was answered.

 

[Grendel]

Because you are a little child and can’t understand grown ups.

Ha ha ha ha ha. To be honest your posts are great as sometimes I show them to people at work who are remainers and even they cringe at what a bigoted arrogant twat you are. You are the best advert on here for leave.

I’m fact I’m now listing top of the list of benefits of leaving that it will hopefully make it more difficult for you to come back to Britain. Good.

 

[martcov]

Brexit IS being handled badly. But of course you will say that the EU isn't guilty of anything.

It could be so easy. The UK would like it to be easier. But the EU have motives where they want it to be as difficult as possible.

The UK‘s motive is to carry out what was voted for with the least possible damage. Very difficult to make a workable proposal that ensures that no one gets hurt in the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ive always agreed with this view ie that the EU need to make it difficult for the UK so others don't follow. The argument is flawed. The UK is a major net importer from the EU (so with tariffs a net tax receiver), isn't in the Euro or Shengen and is a large economy in its own right etc etc. For other countries to leave (most likely I'm guessing someone like Italy) the impact would be far greater.That doesn't mean that significant proportions of certain EU countries public don't necessarily want it, but the ramifications of leaving the Euro, let alone the other aspects are indeterminable.

I'm therefore wondering why the EU isn't more flexible. Protecting the "four freedoms" always appeared to be about sending a message to other nations that they cant be in the "club" without them. If they showed flexibility with the UK, others would follow, however, as you correctly point out this is very unlikely to be the case as the impact on the likely leavers would be significant and the UK is very much a "special case" as we're not in the Euro etc etc.

All very strange and difficult to understand peoples true motives on both sides. I'd imagine from the EUs perspective one of the reasons for their approach is trying to ensure the UK doesn't have an unfair competitive (trade) advantage, which is why I would've liked Hammond to make the point that in a "no deal" scenario we would immediately have to consider reducing corporate tax rates and regulation to protect the economy and make it attractive for companies to still operate from here. Also that without the "divorce bill" and with future net revenues from tariffs they would subsidise and support those large exporters to the EU and those who have historically received EU grants.

Id hope that this would ensure a sensible deal is agreed as a close relationship is better than none at all.

A fair post. As you will know though, the UK is not the only country in the EU with its own currency.

I think they'd be a long term backlash in cutting corporation tax and regulation, especially workers' rights.

IMO, a Corbyn government is going to be inevitable at this rate and the above about corporation tax cuts and regulations would be something they're very aware of.

 

[martcov]

Ha ha ha ha ha. To be honest your posts are great as sometimes I show them to people at work who are remainers and even they cringe at what a bigoted arrogant twat you are. You are the best advert on here for leave.

I’m fact I’m now listing top of the list of benefits of leaving that it will hopefully make it more difficult for you to come back to Britain. Good.

Haha.. did you show your cock up with the Holy Roman Empire and your quick change of course when you saw that the learned man was of a similar opinion to me. That was hilarious.

And, even with the Brexit cock up, I will still be a British Citizen.

My next Land Rover Discovery will be built in the EU. So Brexit won’t effect that.

 

[martcov]

His response articulated the point perfectly. It’s fake news and the question was answered.

Well, as usual the question wasn’t.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m fact I’m now listing top of the list of benefits of leaving that it will hopefully make it more difficult for you to come back to Britain. Good.

Why would a British citizen have difficulties coming into the country?

 

[Grendel]

Haha.. did you show your cock up with the Holy Roman Empire and your quick change of course when you saw that the learned man was of a similar opinion to me. That was hilarious.

I showed them that as well. The fact after 20 attempts you still failed to get the point was hysterical.

When I remember the name of that other Eu whore who masquerades as an academic I’ll do it again.

I did of course before when making racist stereotypical remarks about Italy which of course you and sick boy were all over lambasting me for being a typical leave voter, thick, racist blah blah blah

Then of course when I told you I’d forgotten to say it was a quote from Junker it all went a little bit silent.

 

[Grendel]

Why would a British citizen have difficulties coming into the country?

Ask him. He was whining and bitching about his wife, his daughter and he said it would be an issue.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ask him. He was whining and bitching about his wife, his daughter and he said it would be an issue.

Long term there is unlikely to be much change in the current EU migration policy, it'll be dressed up with a different name.

 

[martcov]

I showed them that as well. The fact after 20 attempts you still failed to get the point was hysterical.

When I remember the name of that other Eu whore who masquerades as an academic I’ll do it again.

I did of course before when making racist stereotypical remarks about Italy which of course you and sick boy were all over lambasting me for being a typical leave voter, thick, racist blah blah blah

Then of course when I told you I’d forgotten to say it was a quote from Junker it all went a little bit silent.

I knew it was a quote from Juncker and didn’t fall for it. He was referring to statistics in an admittedly clumsy way.

 

[martcov]

Ask him. He was whining and bitching about his wife, his daughter and he said it would be an issue.

My daughter has a UK passport so it wouldn’t be a problem for her anyway. A few days in the UK away from the missus could be counted as a Brexit bonus.

 

[martcov]

I showed them that as well. The fact after 20 attempts you still failed to get the point was hysterical.

When I remember the name of that other Eu whore who masquerades as an academic I’ll do it again.

I did of course before when making racist stereotypical remarks about Italy which of course you and sick boy were all over lambasting me for being a typical leave voter, thick, racist blah blah blah

Then of course when I told you I’d forgotten to say it was a quote from Junker it all went a little bit silent.

Haha... yes, of course you did...