The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (260 Viewers)

[Astute]

No. We should stay in the EU because leaving will not bring us more benefits than we have by remaining.

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

 

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[Astute]

Are you on the wind up again?

How about explaining instead of making comments like this?

Of course you can't as you know I am right.

 

[martcov]

Those under 18 are not counted anymore. They either have to have a job or continue in education. And many others don't count that would love to work. It is what is known as massaging the figures.

Just like if either the wife or I wasn't working. Neither would be counted as unemployed as the other earns enough for us not to be counted as we would still earn too much to be on benefits.

Unemployment - Office for National Statistics

 

[martcov]

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

Crooked organisation? Are you following the Conservative conference? The lies, the calls to emotions to cover the failures? And you are worried about the EU?

 

[Sick Boy]

How about explaining instead of making comments like this?

Of course you can't as you know I am right.

As the EU has said, it won't allow the UK to cherry pick the bits it likes and doesn't like about the Single Market.

I know this will come as a shock to you as you claimed that as the UK buys German cars, Italian wine, French cheese etc and the EU needs us more then we need them, that these industries would put pressure on and lead to the EU caving in.

Surprise surprise though it hasn't happened and was never going to.

 

[martcov]

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

The long term gain is just what you have been told. Rees Mogg says in 50 years the UK will be booming.

I won’t be here so I won’t be able to compare notes. A bit like religion telling you things will be better in heaven when you die.

I prefer sticking to what I know, one of the top G7 economies, SM, CU and trade deals throughout the world through the EU.... as opposed to short term pain whatever happens and, maybe, or maybe not, prosperity at some future indeterminate time.

 

[Sick Boy]

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?

 

[martcov]

How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?

He will dodge the question and come out with Juncker, Selmayr or fish....

 

[skybluetony176]

If you didn't search the net for the most anti Brexit articles all the time or twist anything that was anti EU it would be worth reading the countless links.

Not bad from someone who says those who voted leave are clueless when you voted UKIP.

You didn’t read it then. Thanks for the confirmation. I look for news stories on brexit. The fact that they all seem to be negative is hardly my fault. For reference it was me who originally posted the stories about cheaper citrus fruit as a result of brexit and possibly selling more pigs ears to China because of Brexit. Pretty much the only two positive stories I’ve been able to find. Again not my fault.

If you can find some positive stories about brexit then feel free to post them up and we can discuss them.

 

[skybluetony176]

Would you like to explain?

Are you stating as a fact that the EU couldn't do a deal that would benefit both sides if they wanted to?

Of course you are not.

This has nothing to do with any plan or any Tory. And you know it.

May was on the news again this morning asking the EU to tell us what Brexit should look like. And there was me thinking that we had voted leave to take back control.

 

[Ashdown]

If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.

 

[skybluetony176]

We also have some area of high unemployment where people struggle to get work. I would love him to tell them that we have full employment.

They could always do what the EU migrants do. Move to where the work is. You would have thought that the government would offer help to do this, especially post brexit. Can’t say I’ve heard them suggest that ever.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah. So I am supposed to only say about pro EU stuff like yourself.

No. You’re supposed to say about pro Brexit stuff. You’ve the one who thinks it’s a good idea, why don’t you at least try to educate those of us who don’t?

 

[clint van damme]

Aspirin: low dose to prevent heart attacks and stroke - NHS.UK

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

to be honest when I was thinking of expert I was thinking more of a consultant than a general website but I suppose that's open to debate.

I'd would still rather listen to an expert than to Michael Gove, or the ridiculous 'Dr' Liam fox or any of their other cronies.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you on the wind up again?

I don’t think he is. I really think he doesn’t understand brexit.

 

[skybluetony176]

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

Why will it be better long term? It isn’t going to happen just because you keep repeating it. Where’s your logical answer for that.

Do we have to go through the crooked institution crap again? As pointed out to you last week with numerous links our domestic institutions are equally as crooked if not worse. We will still be run by a crooked institution, the darlings of brexit will see to that.

 

[clint van damme]

That is your view.

Leaving means at the start some things will be worse. There us no doubt here. But long term it will be better.

I was the same as you to start with. But now through Brexit I have found out what the EU is like. Short term pain for long term gain. And not to be run by a crooked institution.

why will it be better long term? Convince me.

 

[Sick Boy]

If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.

The UK will ideally still have an open border with an EU country. A lot of EU migrants come here are actually skilled workers.

 

[martcov]

If we can firm up our borders and control immigration better, then that will be a big improvement for a start. We need skilled, non criminal, checked workers who can add to the quality of life here not diminish it. There may be a positive impact on wages for people already in the UK if we can stop the flood of unskilled minimum wage types coming from Eastern Europe.

Everyone just talks about economic impact but 250,000 extra people a year is putting ridiculous strain on transport, hospitals, welfare and care services and schools etc. Not to mention housing stocks, rental costs, water supply, criminal activity/policing, potential terrorism surveillance, pollution and the environmental impact.

It doesn't help of course that any economic benefit from these extra bodies seems to be swallowed up into the same channels of the super rich and public funding for everything is continually cut.

We could firm up our borders by invoking the 3 month rule as do Belgium and other EU countries. We were amongst the first to let in the Romanians and Bulgarians. That was a UK choice. Germany didn’t because of the poor German labour market at the time. UK choice not EU dictat.

If you now remove 3 million EU workers the UK would collapse.

I agree that with the extra migrants paying more in and taking less out, that the question must be asked as to why austerity measures lasted so long? Why aren’t the government or local governments building affordable housing? Why is the infrastructure not being improved? Don’t parrot that it is the EU‘s fault. It isn’t. We are a sovereign nation and don’t rely on EU dictats to tell us to repair infrastructure or build housing.

 

[martcov]

1.4M, ONS has stats on loads of stuff.
UK labour market - Office for National Statistics

German unemployment runs about 3,.4%, UK currently 4.0%

Germany is 5,3% according to the Germans. I believe them.

 

[Astute]

Crooked organisation? Are you following the Conservative conference? The lies, the calls to emotions to cover the failures? And you are worried about the EU?

The difference is those at the top of the EU don't get voted in by us. Those like Selmayr don't even get voted in when the position should have someone voted in. We have the right to vote the Tories out.

But this doesn't go with your pro EU propaganda.

 

[Astute]

As the EU has said, it won't allow the UK to cherry pick the bits it likes and doesn't like about the Single Market.

I know this will come as a shock to you as you claimed that as the UK buys German cars, Italian wine, French cheese etc and the EU needs us more then we need them, that these industries would put pressure on and lead to the EU caving in.

Surprise surprise though it hasn't happened and was never going to.

Oh what a shock. Twisted words and question not answered.

Could the EU negotiate if they wanted to?

Could the EU come out with a trade deal if they wanted to?

Are they taking this stance to try and force us to stay in?

 

[Astute]

The long term gain is just what you have been told. Rees Mogg says in 50 years the UK will be booming.

I won’t be here so I won’t be able to compare notes. A bit like religion telling you things will be better in heaven when you die.

I prefer sticking to what I know, one of the top G7 economies, SM, CU and trade deals throughout the world through the EU.... as opposed to short term pain whatever happens and, maybe, or maybe not, prosperity at some future indeterminate time.

So RM is a twat and anyone is an idiot for listening to him......unless he says something you like.

 

[Astute]

How will it be better in the long-term? What will be better? What is this based on?

Taking back control and not letting unvoted people decide our destiny when they don't care what happens here.

Don't worry. You will be in Italy soon. Everything will be good as the EU is brilliant.

 

[Astute]

He will dodge the question and come out with Juncker, Selmayr or fish....

And you will ignore everything bad about the EU and say we must stay in whatever the consequences.

 

[Astute]

No. You’re supposed to say about pro Brexit stuff. You’ve the one who thinks it’s a good idea, why don’t you at least try to educate those of us who don’t?

More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh what a shock. Twisted words and question not answered.

Could the EU negotiate if they wanted to?

Could the EU come out with a trade deal if they wanted to?

Are they taking this stance to try and force us to stay in?

No they're not they're acting in its best interest, as it's entitled to do.

 

[skybluetony176]

More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?

You have no valid positive leave news then as suspected. Thank you for the confirmation.

 

[Sick Boy]

More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?

I'm not desperate but I genuinely believe it will be bad in the long term. You've said it will be better in the long run but have failed to tell us how

 

[Sick Boy]

Taking back control and not letting unvoted people decide our destiny when they don't care what happens here.

Don't worry. You will be in Italy soon. Everything will be good as the EU is brilliant.

Haha just parroting empty slogans, as usual.

 

[martcov]

The difference is those at the top of the EU don't get voted in by us. Those like Selmayr don't even get voted in when the position should have someone voted in. We have the right to vote the Tories out.

But this doesn't go with your pro EU propaganda.

What difference? When are you going to tell us who the head of Whitehall is? How he was selected, by whom he was selected and what democratic influence we have on his selection? How do we vote him out?

We have the right to vote MEPs out, but not civil servants- exactly the same as in the UK.

Now convince me of the benefit of the UK appointments of civil servants as opposed to the EU appointments?

 

[martcov]

More lies.

So I have never said there is good and bad about leaving? And I have never said it would be better for my plans when I retire if we stay in?

Of course not. You only read the parts you don't like and the few of you join in on an attack.

The one who lives in Germany. The one who is moving to Italy and the one who voted UKIP.

I can understand why Mart and SB are desperate for us to stay in the EU. But you who voted UKIP?

I’ll help, by starting your post about benefits off for you.

Hi Mart, SB, and Tony,

The measurable benefits of Brexit are:

 

[Grappa]

 

[Astute]

No they're not they're acting in its best interest, as it's entitled to do.

Yet you don't want the UK to act in their best interests?

Cameron wanted a meeting to see what could be done to help with the problems we were having. Juncker said no and let the UK know right before the Brexit vote.

Yeah top thinking.

They could still negotiate and say what they want and what they would allow. But we don't even get that.

 

[Astute]

I'm not desperate but I genuinely believe it will be bad in the long term. You've said it will be better in the long run but have failed to tell us how

Taking back control.

Deciding how many people can live in the UK while we try to catch up with the previous government ineptitudes.

Do checks on who comes here instead of an EU passport becoming a right to be here.

Being able to make our own trade deals.

Not being forced into rules and regulations that Germany constantly ignore but we are not allowed to.

That is for starters.

Yes there are many good things to stay in the EU for. But these seem to be the only ones that count and the good on leaving is never right to some.