The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (305 Viewers)

[Astute]

Haha just parroting empty slogans, as usual.

Empty slogans?

So there was nothing wrong with the Selmayr debacle? It didn't show that they don't care about not following their own rules and regulations even when the vast majority in the EU were pissed off yet couldn't do anything about it?

And you think we should trust them?

Empty slogans? Is that the best you can do?

 

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[Astute]

You have no valid positive leave news then as suspected. Thank you for the confirmation.

Yeah OK.

All you have good about staying in the EU is the way they fail to negotiate.

 

[martcov]

Yet you don't want the UK to act in their best interests?

Cameron wanted a meeting to see what could be done to help with the problems we were having. Juncker said no and let the UK know right before the Brexit vote.

Yeah top thinking.

They could still negotiate and say what they want and what they would allow. But we don't even get that.

Juncker said they couldn't change the rules of 28 countries for one country. That is still the position.

 

[Astute]

Juncker said they couldn't change the rules of 28 countries for one country. That is still the position.

Yet since then rules gave been changed. Like borders closed to people who have landed in the EU not being able to leave where they land. This way they can't reach Germany.

 

[martcov]

Taking back control.

How are we doing that? We are up shit creek and dependant on other countries for any deals we may make.

Deciding how many people can live in the UK while we try to catch up with the previous government ineptitudes.

How has that worked with non eu migration up until now?

Do checks on who comes here instead of an EU passport becoming a right to be here.

We are in Europol and have mutual arrangements for deporting criminals and acces to EU data banks on criminals.

Being able to make our own trade deals.

With whom and on better terms than the EU has? How much tangible evidence of trade deals in progress? USA and Australia want to do deals with the EU first.

Not being forced into rules and regulations that Germany constantly ignore but we are not allowed to.

Examples? Germany is having to correct things at the moment - such as the diesel emmissions.

That is for starters.

That's all. Now back to Selmayr.

Yes there are many good things to stay in the EU for. But these seem to be the only ones that count and the good on leaving is never right to some.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah OK.

All you have good about staying in the EU is the way they fail to negotiate.

I didn’t need further confirmation that you have no valid positive leave news. I got it the first time. I thought I’d been quite clear on that.

 

[skybluetony176]

Another no deal warning from Toyota Toyota: No-deal Brexit would hit investment

 

[Grappa]

All this 'the EU are threatening us' and 'they're refusing to negotiate' and 'they're punishing us' is complete bollocks.
We 'voluntarily' triggered an agreement (article 50) that we helped write and agreed to.
Just because some people were hoodwinked by the 'we'll get a great deal' nonsense does not mean that the EU are acting maliciously.

I'm almost at the point now where I say fuck it, I'll apply for citizenship in the country I'm in now and let the whole UK sink into a mess of 52% of its own making. Let the one thing we should all be proud of (NHS) be decimated by big pharma. Let austerity be ramped up even further. Let the UK be turned into a tax haven. Let Darren fucking Grimes and those cunts from Belize and all those public school educated multi millionaires have their Victorian way.

But I just know that when the shit hits the fan it definitely won't be the vote-leavers fault. The narrative is being written already: the nasty EU, the remoaners, Germany.

 

[Astute]

I didn’t need further confirmation that you have no valid positive leave news. I got it the first time. I thought I’d been quite clear on that.

Of course there won't be valid reasons. Because you don't want there to be any.

Not bad from someone who voted UKIP.

 

[Astute]

All this 'the EU are threatening us' and 'they're refusing to negotiate' and 'they're punishing us' is complete bollocks.
We 'voluntarily' triggered an agreement (article 50) that we helped write and agreed to.
Just because some people were hoodwinked by the 'we'll get a great deal' nonsense does not mean that the EU are acting maliciously.

I'm almost at the point now where I say fuck it, I'll apply for citizenship in the country I'm in now and let the whole UK sink into a mess of 52% of its own making. Let the one thing we should all be proud of (NHS) be decimated by big pharma. Let austerity be ramped up even further. Let the UK be turned into a tax haven. Let Darren fucking Grimes and those cunts from Belize and all those public school educated multi millionaires have their Victorian way.

But I just know that when the shit hits the fan it definitely won't be the vote-leavers fault. The narrative is being written already: the nasty EU, the remoaners, Germany.

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course there won't be valid reasons. Because you don't want there to be any.

Not bad from someone who voted UKIP.

You’re still not telling me. You want there to be, fight your corner. And then further confirmation that you can’t with another moronic comment. No ones buying your attempted distraction. Sell us brexit on tangible pros not empty rhetoric and childish distraction.

 

[Grappa]

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

Great response.

 

[skybluetony176]

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

I’ve explained my reasons a gazillion times to you for voting Brexit in a European election on one occasion and one occasion only. I’m not going to do it again. Keep using it as a childish distraction from answering the tough questions all you like. It just confirms how clueless you are.

You also know my reasoning for not leaving the EU against Brexit although you’re now pretending you don’t. We’re 500+ pages into the subject and I’ve been (along with yourself) one of the main contributors. If you’re really saying that you don’t know my reasoning by now then you really are beyond help. Your attention to detail must be shocking and probably explains your constant repeating of empty rhetoric instead of any detail on how said empty rhetoric is going to be achieved.

 

[Captain Dart]

I’ve explained my reasons a gazillion times to you for voting Brexit in a European election on one occasion and one occasion only. I’m not going to do it again. Keep using it as a childish distraction from answering the tough questions all you like. It just confirms how clueless you are.

You also know my reasoning for not leaving the EU against Brexit although you’re now pretending you don’t. We’re 500+ pages into the subject and I’ve been (along with yourself) one of the main contributors. If you’re really saying that you don’t know my reasoning by now then you really are beyond help. Your attention to detail must be shocking and probably explains your constant repeating of empty rhetoric instead of any detail on how said empty rhetoric is going to be achieved.

Capricious.

 

[Astute]

You’re still not telling me. You want there to be, fight your corner. And then further confirmation that you can’t with another moronic comment. No ones buying your attempted distraction. Sell us brexit on tangible pros not empty rhetoric and childish distraction.

Fight my corner?

With you three?

I don't have a corner to fight. Those who don't live in the UK or are planning to leave come out with lies and twisting of words. How can you try and have a debate with people like this.

 

[Astute]

I’ve explained my reasons a gazillion times to you for voting Brexit in a European election on one occasion and one occasion only. I’m not going to do it again. Keep using it as a childish distraction from answering the tough questions all you like. It just confirms how clueless you are.

You also know my reasoning for not leaving the EU against Brexit although you’re now pretending you don’t. We’re 500+ pages into the subject and I’ve been (along with yourself) one of the main contributors. If you’re really saying that you don’t know my reasoning by now then you really are beyond help. Your attention to detail must be shocking and probably explains your constant repeating of empty rhetoric instead of any detail on how said empty rhetoric is going to be achieved.

You had no reason to vote UKIP other than leave the EU.

Just like if you voted BNP then said you are not racist.

 

[Astute]

Great response.

A response that has no reply I see.

 

[Grappa]

A response that has no reply I see.

I work for a UK company. I pay UK taxes. I have property in the UK. I am currently a UK citizen. But because I'm working a contract outside the UK that means I am obviously biased in favour of the EU, have I got that right?

Maybe, just maybe, I think that brexit is an absolutely foolish move. Maybe all the evidence I've seen suggests to me that this is really not in the UK's interest. But, can't be that, can it? It must be the fact that I'm working in a non-EU country. Genius.

 

[skybluetony176]

You had no reason to vote UKIP other than leave the EU.

Just like if you voted BNP then said you are not racist.

There is another reason. You just lack the intellect to comprehend it. I’ve explained it in the plainest of English many times in the past I’m not doing it again so don’t ask.

 

[Sick Boy]

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

Just because someone decides to leave the UK does not make them anti-UK. If you genuinely think that then that's pretty sad and narrow minded.

Personally I'm very concerned about the future of the NHS and the inevitable dismantling that will occur as my parents are getting older.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fight my corner?

With you three?

I don't have a corner to fight. Those who don't live in the UK or are planning to leave come out with lies and twisting of words. How can you try and have a debate with people like this.

You’ve hidden behind the “there’s three of us” argument before and it doesn’t wash. There could be eleventy billion of us and it wouldn’t matter as we’re all asking the same question.

How do you know they’re lies or twisted? You never argue you’re case. You just repeat the tag lines that have no substance behind them and then accuse people of either lying or twisting. You never explain why you think they’re wrong or give examples of why they’re wrong. Debating with you is very much a one way street.

We’ll try again. What are the tangible benefits of Brexit. Not tag lines and catch phrases. The tangible benefits with some substance behind them. I don’t want to here “what about Junker, Salmayr or Merkel. I don’t want to here the empty rhetoric of I believe it will be short term pain for long term gain ect. I want to hear something of substance with some actual logic behind it. I’ve already started you off with citrus fruit and pigs ears, over to you.

 

[martcov]

Yet since then rules gave been changed. Like borders closed to people who have landed in the EU not being able to leave where they land. This way they can't reach Germany.

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

to be honest when I was thinking of expert I was thinking more of a consultant than a general website but I suppose that's open to debate.

I'd would still rather listen to an expert than to Michael Gove, or the ridiculous 'Dr' Liam fox or any of their other cronies.

Clint just google & look for it. There are research articles (which have to conform to internationally ethical standards), by said Professors/Consultant led teams, & contain all the statistics you need

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[skybluetony176]

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

Nothing to do with changes in the law either, rather just enforcing the current law. Britain has and always has had as EU members the right under EU law to return any asylum seeker back to the point of entry into the EU. Funnily enough a right we’re going to lose when we leave the EU and under the human rights act an asylum seeker has the right to claim asylum in any country, the whole it has to be the first safe country they land in line is a myth. So basically we’ve just voted out a method of disposing of failed asylum seekers in this country.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'm not desperate but I genuinely believe it will be bad in the long term. You've said it will be better in the long run but have failed to tell us how

As you & some others seem to like this approach...

Stop complaining about Brexit – the economic benefits will be huge | John Longworth

How the UK can benefit from a free trade future after Brexit – even outside the single market

Pros and cons of leaving the EU

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[SkyblueBazza]

Great response.

Thing is that 52% have over time become disillusioned with the EU machinations & predicted direction - THAT is the fault of the EU arguably!

And how will the heavily regulated Pharma ruin the NHS??? It is (current AND long-term historical) government policy doing that.

The upper echelons of Politics & Business share the same traits...so why prefer the EU top-brass getting rich(er) as opposed to the UK's???

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[Monners]

Goodbye.

So there is you not in the UK. Mart in Germany. SB moving to Italy and Tony who voted UKIP.

I get the 3 of you and why you are so biased. But not Tony who voted UKIP. And UKIP as we all know were about one thing. Leaving the EU.

I am staying (or will I fuck off to Ireland?) - I don't consider myself to be bias - just want to know how leaving the EU will make the UK better off. Still waiting for a plan.

 

[clint van damme]

Clint just google & look for it. There are research articles (which have to conform to internationally ethical standards), by said Professors/Consultant led teams, & contain all the statistics you need

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I guarantee you no consultant would prescribe you aspirin if you had a stroke until they'd found out the cause. If the cause was a clot they might well do then.
Hopefully you'll never be in a position to find out.
But you're proving the point that you're in Goves has enough of experts camp.

The thing is, when this all started there were people making the case for both side. Now leave just appears to be rhetoric and inaccuracies.
Again, Im happy for my thoughts on what will happen at our borders, What will happen if we go under the WTO in the event of a no deal to be taken apart with reasoned argument backed up with facts but no one can give me any glimmer of hope in this cluster fuck.

 

[Astute]

Nothing to do with freedom of movement.

Nothing to do with rules changing?

 

[Astute]

I am staying (or will I fuck off to Ireland?) - I don't consider myself to be bias - just want to know how leaving the EU will make the UK better off. Still waiting for a plan.

And there is the problem. Nobody has a clue until we see what sort of deal/agreement is made. Nobody knows if it will be good or bad.

 

[clint van damme]

And there is the problem. Nobody has a clue until we see what sort of deal/agreement is made. Nobody knows if it will be good or bad.

I personally think there's enough evidence to suggest no deal will be bad.
I actually think if the right deal is struck it might actually give the economy a bit of a boost but that sort of deal could cause a lot of problems politically

 

[Monners]

And there is the problem. Nobody has a clue until we see what sort of deal/agreement is made. Nobody knows if it will be good or bad.

If there was a plan by the leave campaign in place that demonstrated that the UK would have sustained and stable economic growth, then I would have voted for it. There wasn't and still isn't - why take the risk of leaping into the unknown? It makes no sense.

 

[Grendel]

If there was a plan by the leave campaign in place that demonstrated that the UK would have sustained and stable economic growth, then I would have voted for it. There wasn't and still isn't - why take the risk of leaping into the unknown? It makes no sense.

Like the sustained economic growth when the uk plunged into the ERM and interest rates climbed to 15%?

 

[skybluetony176]

As you & some others seem to like this approach...

Stop complaining about Brexit – the economic benefits will be huge | John Longworth

How the UK can benefit from a free trade future after Brexit – even outside the single market

Pros and cons of leaving the EU

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Haven’t had chance to read them in detail and won’t until tomorrow now but after a quick scan I can already see some of its out of date especially regarding trade. For instance it’s been confirmed that India is more interested in doing a deal with the EU than us as apparently we’ve always been the stumbling block in EU/India trade negotiations as we’ve always vetoed the relaxation of Visas into the EU, something also confirmed by India that relaxation of the visa rules would have to be part of any post brexit U.K./India trade deal. Then there’s the bit about trade with the UAE. The EU was confirmed this year as the GCC’s biggest trading partner.

A lot has happened since 2017 and especially January 2017 (that’s fastly approaching 2 years). I would suggest that at first glance the articles you’ve linked are out of date. They also seem to be based again on largely rhetoric rather than anything tangible.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I guarantee you no consultant would prescribe you aspirin if you had a stroke until they'd found out the cause. If the cause was a clot they might well do then.
Hopefully you'll never be in a position to find out.
But you're proving the point that you're in Goves has enough of experts camp.

The thing is, when this all started there were people making the case for both side. Now leave just appears to be rhetoric and inaccuracies.
Again, Im happy for my thoughts on what will happen at our borders, What will happen if we go under the WTO in the event of a no deal to be taken apart with reasoned argument backed up with facts but no one can give me any glimmer of hope in this cluster fuck.

Wrong. There are consultants doing so...to prevent stroke in at risk pts. If the cause of stroke a is a clot...it is warfarin or similar anticoagulant that would be prescribed. The point is...experts given the same information reach different convlusions in many situations. Media agenda chooses which are given airtime where. I reckon that the coverage is largely scaremongering & speculation.
That said there is rightfully much concern out there because of the unknown moving forward. Some will win, some will lose - both sides of the channel. It will all balance out though.

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