The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (236 Viewers)

[Astute]

Straight after the referendum Boris wrote this.
I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be

Gove turned on him because of it but such is the goal post moving Gove now supports chequers and Boris says it doesn’t go far enough.

So are you saying BJ is wrong and we won't be a part of Europe after Brexit?

 

---

[Astute]

I don’t know. But they are obviously aware of them and I doubt whether they are ignoring them hoping they go away.

We are at least adapting the M26 ready to be a lorry park. Great. That’s democracy get over it.

The ex UK ambassador to the EU explains for you why the EU isn’t going to alter it‘s rules for the UK.

“Faced by a UK which essentially wants all the benefits of unchanged free trade from its EU membership days, with none / few of the obligations, the EU repeatedly says: “that is just never going to be on offer, and you must choose between a Canadian style relationship, which offers you much greater autonomy but much lower access to our market, and a Norwegian type deal which offers far better market access but much less autonomy,” he said.

“It was never going to say anything else. It was always going to put first the integrity of its current legal order and the need to demonstrate a very clear distinction between the benefits available to members, and the best that could ever be on offer to any third country. And it was never going to change its legal order for the benefit of a state that had chosen to leave it.”

Hope you understand now.

I understand. Just like you do.

But you praise Carney. But you ignored a similar link with him saying yet again that the EU has done nothing meaningful on the subject. This is the first time ever that Carney has said something and you haven't rejoiced in what he has said.

There is no shortcut. It takes a lot of organisation. It would take a lot of money.

So why has nothing been done yet? Time is running out. You rejoice on things the UK hasn't got ready.

So the same question yet again.

Why hasn't the EU got anything ready yet? Why are there no solid plans? Is it because the hardball tactics are going to end soon or are they just incompetent?

 

[martcov]

I understand. Just like you do.

But you praise Carney. But you ignored a similar link with him saying yet again that the EU has done nothing meaningful on the subject. This is the first time ever that Carney has said something and you haven't rejoiced in what he has said.

There is no shortcut. It takes a lot of organisation. It would take a lot of money.

So why has nothing been done yet? Time is running out. You rejoice on things the UK hasn't got ready.

So the same question yet again.

Why hasn't the EU got anything ready yet? Why are there no solid plans? Is it because the hardball tactics are going to end soon or are they just incompetent?

I wasn’t aware that I keep praising Carney. He helped defray Brexit damage after the vote.

You don’t know what is really going on. Neither do I. Maybe Carney doesn’t know either. But, I know that EU financial institutions are aware of the problem ( see link ) and I suspect Carney is pushing them for an answer.

It is easier to see physical things like works on the M26, or recruiting for customs officers. I would expect financial dealings to be a bit more discreet. We have until November before we know if there will be a no deal. Then we will hear what has been decided.

 

[Astute]

I wasn’t aware that I keep praising Carney. He helped defray Brexit damage after the vote.

You don’t know what is really going on. Neither do I. Maybe Carney doesn’t know either. But, I know that EU financial institutions are aware of the problem ( see link ) and I suspect Carney is pushing them for an answer.

It is easier to see physical things like works on the M26, or recruiting for customs officers. I would expect financial dealings to be a bit more discreet. We have until November before we know if there will be a no deal. Then we will hear what has been decided.

Carney has always been praised by you as he is pro EU.

Of course Carney knows. Have you forgotten who he is? Or is it your attempt at another defence of the EU? Or is it that you don't want anyone thinking that the EU are about to soften their stance on Brexit?

 

[clint van damme]

Shall we wait until any deal is reached?

I still think I am right about the hard ball tactics.

Just like there are no comments about the trouble stored up in the banking system. I wonder why. Nobody has come out with a reason nothing has been done about it. Is the reason they know there will be a deal? Or are they clueless? Or are they totally incompetent?

I haven't commented because I didn't know about it and I'm not disputing what your saying.

But as I've said before, knowing the certain sectors in the EU will suffer doesn't give me any comfort if the UK takes a massive hit at the same time. I 'll just be fucked off that we're suffering.

 

[martcov]

Carney has always been praised by you as he is pro EU.

Of course Carney knows. Have you forgotten who he is? Or is it your attempt at another defence of the EU? Or is it that you don't want anyone thinking that the EU are about to soften their stance on Brexit?

How does he know what discussions are going on behind closed doors about large amounts of money? He wants to bring this out to get some sort of a reaction. Do you think that we on here know more than the banks involved? I posted 3 possible alternatives. Let’s see what gets announced when deal or no deal is definite. This was not mentioned by the Brexit press before as they were telling us about cars, cheese and wine forcing the EU‘s hand. Weren’t the EU supposed to be begging for a deal by now?

Carney seems to have saved the economy a lot of suffering in 2016 and the government have asked him to stay on to see Brexit through. Carney thinks that Brexit will cause harm as I do. I don’t see what is bad or unusual about that.

The reason quoted for the EC‘s quick appointment of Selmayr was for him to see Brexit through, according to Juncker. He was with Juncker from the start of Brexit. Seems to be as sensible a reason as keeping Carney in place. Yes, it was a scam, sham and annoying, but caused by Brexit.

Brexit really is a load of bollocks.

 

[martcov]

I haven't commented because I didn't know about it and I'm not disputing what your saying.

But as I've said before, knowing the certain sectors in the EU will suffer doesn't give me any comfort if the UK takes a massive hit at the same time. I 'll just be fucked off that we're suffering.

Bit like us being relegated to League 2, but taking comfort that Villa are no longer in the Premiership ( that was an example, I know we are in League 1 before anyone jumps on me ).

Some cannot accept where we are. The „look at their problems“ is part of their defence mechanisms. As is to constantly attack people who point out unpleasant facts and call them liars.

 

[martcov]

Shall we wait until any deal is reached?

I still think I am right about the hard ball tactics.

Just like there are no comments about the trouble stored up in the banking system. I wonder why. Nobody has come out with a reason nothing has been done about it. Is the reason they know there will be a deal? Or are they clueless? Or are they totally incompetent?

With the present UK government mess, you can hardly call 27 countries sticking together incompetent. No, they are not clueless. I posted a link showing 3 alternative solutions being publicly discussed.

Maybe they are betting on a deal for financial services. Banks in the UK are holding back on relocation plans for the same reasons. We don’t know what they are working on.

Just because Carney brought this into the press doesn’t mean European banks know less than you and are incompetent. You have only just cottoned on to this idea and added it to Juncker, Selmayr and fish. Hardly showing off your competence at anything to do with economics.

No comment from you on making the M26 into a carpark on Brexit day if this goes pear shaped. Will of the people? Democracy, get over it? Glorious sunset?

If there was no Brexit, life would be going on. EU immigration would over time reduce as other countries become richer. The economy would still be top, or second in the G7 and people would be pushing the government to deal with the real reasons for Brexit: infrastructure, housing, jobs in neglected areas, end to austerity, saving the NHS and so on. Instead of talking about Selmayr’s appointment, fish, Juncker‘s drinking habits, feeling happy about French made blue passports and so on. And now hoping that the EU financial system will collapse.

Are the so called „left behind“ gaining anything from Brexit? Is anything positive coming up short term? What can someone living in poor housing in a zero hours job expect on Brexit day?

 

[Captain Dart]

Really? Why’s that?

The Unionists are actually modern ultra conservatives and might be compared to some Republicans in the states.
The Dark Ages were a strict class based society where everyone owed alegience to their master and church and had to conform.

Having enough customs officers hardly even registers on what is needed.

It is the financial side that the EU will fail badly on. And it isn't just a matter of taking a few bankers on. At best a lot if money would be lost. At worse a financial catastrophe could happen. London is very important. And it is EU law that will stop the EU from using London banks.

Trillions of reasons why EU needs a deal: Bank of England warns of risk to European lenders | This is Money

Italy will bring the Euro to its knees.

 

[Astute]

How does he know what discussions are going on behind closed doors about large amounts of money? He wants to bring this out to get some sort of a reaction. Do you think that we on here know more than the banks involved? I posted 3 possible alternatives. Let’s see what gets announced when deal or no deal is definite. This was not mentioned by the Brexit press before as they were telling us about cars, cheese and wine forcing the EU‘s hand. Weren’t the EU supposed to be begging for a deal by now?

Carney seems to have saved the economy a lot of suffering in 2016 and the government have asked him to stay on to see Brexit through. Carney thinks that Brexit will cause harm as I do. I don’t see what is bad or unusual about that.

The reason quoted for the EC‘s quick appointment of Selmayr was for him to see Brexit through, according to Juncker. He was with Juncker from the start of Brexit. Seems to be as sensible a reason as keeping Carney in place. Yes, it was a scam, sham and annoying, but caused by Brexit.

Brexit really is a load of bollocks.

How can you miss the point so much?

Taking over from London isn't an overnight thing. It isn't putting a plan together and everything will be OK. If it was that easy they wouldn't have used London for so long. London isn't The top financial city in the world for no reason. And it has got even stronger since Brexit was announced.

The 20 most powerful financial centres in the world

World’s Top 10 Financial Cities as of 2018 - Stash Learn

Nowhere else in the EU has the experience, capability or knowledge. It isn't flick a switch and it is all done.

And remember it is EU rules that means they won't be able to use London. It is a much bigger thing than a trade deal. There are trillions of Euros at stake.

But if course you will say they have a plan and everything will be OK. Carney is great but he doesn't know what is going on in the EU? So those running the EU know more about international banking than one of the top people in the largest banking city in the world?

 

[Astute]

Some cannot accept where we are. The „look at their problems“ is part of their defence mechanisms. As is to constantly attack people who point out unpleasant facts and call them liars.

Defence mechanisms?

You are playing down the fact of the EU not being able to use London because of EU rules. And you make out there won't be a deal because they don't need us. I point out that you are not right. You say they have a few plans so will be OK.

It isn't me saying everything in the UK will be good. But you won't accept that there could well be major problems for the EU.

Yet it is all the fault of the UK so the EU doesn't need some kind of deal.

So truthful? Yeah OK.

 

[Astute]

With the present UK government mess, you can hardly call 27 countries sticking together incompetent. No, they are not clueless. I posted a link showing 3 alternative solutions being publicly discussed.

Maybe they are betting on a deal for financial services. Banks in the UK are holding back on relocation plans for the same reasons. We don’t know what they are working on.

Just because Carney brought this into the press doesn’t mean European banks know less than you and are incompetent. You have only just cottoned on to this idea and added it to Juncker, Selmayr and fish. Hardly showing off your competence at anything to do with economics.

No comment from you on making the M26 into a carpark on Brexit day if this goes pear shaped. Will of the people? Democracy, get over it? Glorious sunset?

If there was no Brexit, life would be going on. EU immigration would over time reduce as other countries become richer. The economy would still be top, or second in the G7 and people would be pushing the government to deal with the real reasons for Brexit: infrastructure, housing, jobs in neglected areas, end to austerity, saving the NHS and so on. Instead of talking about Selmayr’s appointment, fish, Juncker‘s drinking habits, feeling happy about French made blue passports and so on. And now hoping that the EU financial system will collapse.

Are the so called „left behind“ gaining anything from Brexit? Is anything positive coming up short term? What can someone living in poor housing in a zero hours job expect on Brexit day?

You say that all EU countries are sticking together. But how much of that is true?

You get those at the top of the EU saying that they are. And someone from most countries saying that they are. But we could quote lots from the EU who would give comments the EU would be happy to put forward.

But it is becoming a mess. All you need is one Euro country to have big problems and the Euro will be in danger. The poorer countries that use the Euro have a currency that is artificially high because of Germany. Those running Italy are not livers of the EU. Can you imagine if the EU tries to force change on Italy with them in charge?

But of course the EU is very strong with no major problems.

 

[martcov]

Defence mechanisms?

You are playing down the fact of the EU not being able to use London because of EU rules. And you make out there won't be a deal because they don't need us. I point out that you are not right. You say they have a few plans so will be OK.

It isn't me saying everything in the UK will be good. But you won't accept that there could well be major problems for the EU.

Yet it is all the fault of the UK so the EU doesn't need some kind of deal.

So truthful? Yeah OK.

There will be some sort of a deal - in the end. Never said there wouldn't be, but the possibilty of a no deal in the short term is there.

The EU will undoubtedly take a hit. There, are you happy? I would be more concerned about the UK though, and if it goes pear shaped, those who told everyone it would be easy and they would be better off will have to be held to account. Nothing to do with how badly or not it goes for the EU. That shouldn't be the priority for UK citizens.

In the case that you are now on about, I doubt whether you are right that the EU Banking system is incompetent and hasn't made any provisions for the Euro clearing systems. I think Carney would very much like to know what the plan is, and thatz is why he has made his statement.

Any consequences of Brexit are down to those who made the decision without having a clue what they were doing.

 

[martcov]

You say that all EU countries are sticking together. But how much of that is true?

You get those at the top of the EU saying that they are. And someone from most countries saying that they are. But we could quote lots from the EU who would give comments the EU would be happy to put forward.

But it is becoming a mess. All you need is one Euro country to have big problems and the Euro will be in danger. The poorer countries that use the Euro have a currency that is artificially high because of Germany. Those running Italy are not livers of the EU. Can you imagine if the EU tries to force change on Italy with them in charge?

But of course the EU is very strong with no major problems.

No one has said that there are no major problems in a union of 28 countries. The point of having a union is to solve European problems together. The UK has chosen a different route.

So be it and bon voyage. But, I think that that is the wrong course of action. We will see.

 

[martcov]

How can you miss the point so much?

Taking over from London isn't an overnight thing. It isn't putting a plan together and everything will be OK. If it was that easy they wouldn't have used London for so long. London isn't The top financial city in the world for no reason. And it has got even stronger since Brexit was announced.

The 20 most powerful financial centres in the world

World’s Top 10 Financial Cities as of 2018 - Stash Learn

Nowhere else in the EU has the experience, capability or knowledge. It isn't flick a switch and it is all done.

And remember it is EU rules that means they won't be able to use London. It is a much bigger thing than a trade deal. There are trillions of Euros at stake.

But if course you will say they have a plan and everything will be OK. Carney is great but he doesn't know what is going on in the EU? So those running the EU know more about international banking than one of the top people in the largest banking city in the world?

Oh my god. Carney not knowing how far the European banks are, doesn't mean the European bankers know more about international banking. It means they have to come up with a plan and he would like to know what it is.

 

[martcov]

How can you miss the point so much?

Taking over from London isn't an overnight thing. It isn't putting a plan together and everything will be OK. If it was that easy they wouldn't have used London for so long. London isn't The top financial city in the world for no reason. And it has got even stronger since Brexit was announced.

Who is missing things:

Press Releases - Long Finance

London isn't the top financial city any more. London is now second to NY and Hong Kong is just below it. That is not evidence of getting stronger. And.. Brexit hasn't even happened yet. But keep hoping that it is worse for the EU. If it makes you feel better.

 

[Astute]

The Unionists are actually modern ultra conservatives and might be compared to some Republicans in the states.
The Dark Ages were a strict class based society where everyone owed alegience to their master and church and had to conform.


Italy will bring the Euro to its knees.

But the truth will be denied on here. We will be OK because we are not in the Euro and are soon to leave the EU. And they can't say we have to pay billions to anything that goes wring as we will not have agreed to it.

 

[Astute]

There will be some sort of a deal - in the end. Never said there wouldn't be, but the possibilty of a no deal in the short term is there.

The EU will undoubtedly take a hit. There, are you happy? I would be more concerned about the UK though, and if it goes pear shaped, those who told everyone it would be easy and they would be better off will have to be held to account. Nothing to do with how badly or not it goes for the EU. That shouldn't be the priority for UK citizens.

In the case that you are now on about, I doubt whether you are right that the EU Banking system is incompetent and hasn't made any provisions for the Euro clearing systems. I think Carney would very much like to know what the plan is, and thatz is why he has made his statement.

Any consequences of Brexit are down to those who made the decision without having a clue what they were doing.

Overdoing it again I see.

So there will be a deal but not straight away?

We won't be leaving straight away. So nothing will change straight away.

I am more concerned about the UK than EU. But I have worry for the people of the EU.

Same as usual. It is all about everything going wrong for the UK and everything for the EU is under control. And Carney doesn't know what he is talking about.

So our plans are useless but the EU plans that nobody knows much about in the complicated field it is in are all in place and will work?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

But the truth will be denied on here. We will be OK because we are not in the Euro and are soon to leave the EU. And they can't say we have to pay billions to anything that goes wring as we will not have agreed to it.

Sadly if it goes pear shaped for the Euro/EU then we will feel significant ripples. The shorter term anything goes wrong the bigger the impact due how much mutual trade we have with them

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[martcov]

Overdoing it again I see.

So there will be a deal but not straight away?

We won't be leaving straight away. So nothing will change straight away.

I am more concerned about the UK than EU. But I have worry for the people of the EU.

Same as usual. It is all about everything going wrong for the UK and everything for the EU is under control. And Carney doesn't know what he is talking about.

So our plans are useless but the EU plans that nobody knows much about in the complicated field it is in are all in place and will work?

Talk about twisting things and putting words into people’s mouths...

Why do say Carney doesn’t know what he is talking about? Where did you pick that from? What are our plans for the Euro clearings? How do you know if they are useless? Carney wants to know the Europeans‘ plans. You claim he doesn’t know what he is talking because of that?

You claim that is what I think?

Madness.

 

[martcov]

But the truth will be denied on here. We will be OK because we are not in the Euro and are soon to leave the EU. And they can't say we have to pay billions to anything that goes wring as we will not have agreed to it.

If Europe goes pear shaped because of Italian populists willing to risk wrecking the European economy , we do too. There is no way of avoiding a crash stuck between populists in Italy and a lunatic populist in the USA,with a divided government and in between the EU and leaving the EU.

 

[Astute]

No one has said that there are no major problems in a union of 28 countries. The point of having a union is to solve European problems together. The UK has chosen a different route.

So be it and bon voyage. But, I think that that is the wrong course of action. We will see.

So when did I say it wasn't the wrong thing we should do?

So let's say for instance it goes fits up in Italy. Most countries take out more than they put in. We are a major contributor. But we are not in the Euro and soon won't be in the EU. One less to pay for it.

The UK is the 3rd largest export destination for Italy at 24 billion. You seem to think that exports are going to be hit hard when we leave. So their 3rd largest market will suffer if you are correct.

 

[Astute]

Oh my god. Carney not knowing how far the European banks are, doesn't mean the European bankers know more about international banking. It means they have to come up with a plan and he would like to know what it is.

So are you saying Carney doesn't know?

Strangely enough he says that they need to put a good plan together and implement it very quickly. So are you calling Carney a liar? Because you normally praise him.

 

[Astute]

Who is missing things:

Press Releases - Long Finance

London isn't the top financial city any more. London is now second to NY and Hong Kong is just below it. That is not evidence of getting stronger. And.. Brexit hasn't even happened yet. But keep hoping that it is worse for the EU. If it makes you feel better.

Remember this link? Or have you forgotten about it already?

World’s Top 10 Financial Cities as of 2018 - Stash Learn

 

[Astute]

Talk about twisting things and putting words into people’s mouths...

Why do say Carney doesn’t know what he is talking about? Where did you pick that from? What are our plans for the Euro clearings? How do you know if they are useless? Carney wants to know the Europeans‘ plans. You claim he doesn’t know what he is talking because of that?

You claim that is what I think?

Madness.

So your posts say the opposite of this post. Yet I suppose you never posted your previous posts

He says the EU has a lot to do. You ask how he knows.

So now you twist it.

It must be difficult for you when someone you have frequently praised is saying what you don't want to hear.

 

[Astute]

Sadly if it goes pear shaped for the Euro/EU then we will feel significant ripples. The shorter term anything goes wrong the bigger the impact due how much mutual trade we have with them

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Brexit will make the whole EU suffer if there isn't a decent trade deal.

But we won't suffer as much as many as we are not in the Euro.

 

[martcov]

So are you saying Carney doesn't know?

Strangely enough he says that they need to put a good plan together and implement it very quickly. So are you calling Carney a liar? Because you normally praise him.

No. I just said he wants to know what the Eurpeans are doing.

 

[martcov]

Brexit will make the whole EU suffer if there isn't a decent trade deal.

But we won't suffer as much as many as we are not in the Euro.

You are joking of course? We will all suffer. I hope you realise that you are constantly supporting a bad idea.

 

[martcov]

So your posts say the opposite of this post. Yet I suppose you never posted your previous posts

He says the EU has a lot to do. You ask how he knows.

So now you twist it.

It must be difficult for you when someone you have frequently praised is saying what you don't want to hear.

I wasn't aware of praising Carney frequently. We have been talking about Selmayr for so long, I cannot even remember ever praising Carney. I probably did sometime, as he helped save the economy after the Brexit vote.

I didn't ask how he knows. I said he doesn't necessarily know what is being discussed by the European banks and that he is pressing for a reaction from them.

 

[Astute]

No. I just said he wants to know what the Eurpeans are doing.

Read again.

I know you can't have a go at Carney as you have praised him so much before. But he says they have to PUT something in place. If they don't put anything in place there are trillions of Euros at stake. They do not have anything in place.

It wasn't Carney wanting to know. He already knows.

 

[Astute]

You are joking of course? We will all suffer. I hope you realise that you are constantly supporting a bad idea.

I am not always supporting a bad idea. I am always picking you up on untruths.

Just like you are now doing with what Carney has said. He said it for the first time in March. He said it the last time a few days ago. And the EU has still done nothing. Yet you try to make out that he is fishing for information.

 

[martcov]

I am not always supporting a bad idea. I am always picking you up on untruths.

Just like you are now doing with what Carney has said. He said it for the first time in March. He said it the last time a few days ago. And the EU has still done nothing. Yet you try to make out that he is fishing for information.

You don't know what is going on. I think just because Carney says they are doing nothing, doesn't mean they are not doing anything. I showed you a discussion paper with three alternatives. I don't know what is going on, but I do not believe that no one is doing anything, or preparing a solution to transactions involving billions of euros. What untruths are you now picking on?

 

[skybluetony176]

Anyhow. Meanwhile back in the real world the most powerful woman in British politics is calling the shots again.

Tory-DUP Brexit war of words intensifies

When I say most powerful woman in British politics I did of course mean Arlene Foster, not Teresa May. Not even an elected MP.

 

[martcov]

Read again.

I know you can't have a go at Carney as you have praised him so much before. But he says they have to PUT something in place. If they don't put anything in place there are trillions of Euros at stake. They do not have anything in place.

It wasn't Carney wanting to know. He already knows.

I am not interested in Carney. I think it is a good idea that he is staying to complete the Brexit mess. That's it. You'll now say that I am defending him or that he wasn't elected, or some other crap...

You say he is right this time. Yes, it may be that he hasn't seen any proposal yet, but there is no way that nothing is going on in the background.

 

[Astute]

I wasn't aware of praising Carney frequently. We have been talking about Selmayr for so long, I cannot even remember ever praising Carney. I probably did sometime, as he helped save the economy after the Brexit vote.

I didn't ask how he knows. I said he doesn't necessarily know what is being discussed by the European banks and that he is pressing for a reaction from them.

Of course you won't remember each time he said about Brexit being bad and you quoting him. Or rejoicing when others quoted him. Head of bank of England saying Brexit is bad for the UK was music to your ears.

Now he says the UK banks are ready and prepared for a bad Brexit and the EU has done nothing to prepare you don't even seem to remember who he is.

If they had anything ready he would know. Remember he is the Governor of the bank of England.