The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    in order for us not to leave with no deal either the Government, the DUP or the EU is going to have to allow one of their 'red lines' to be crossed.
     
  2. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s already been posted on here but there’s a montage of Nigel Ferage saying he’d love it (in a Kevin Keegan stylee) if we were like Norway. It was pretty much Ukip policy at one point but like you say the goal posts have been moved. Not just Ukip either. I’ve made the point several times about Boris writing in his column the Monday after the referendum where he laid out his brexit vision. It was closer to EEA membership than the chequers deal could ever dream of being. Yet again the goalposts have changed. Mind you this is the man who said he’d lay down in front of diggers and lorries to stop a third runway at Heathrow and then was conveniently out the country when Parliament voted on it so hardly surprising the juxtapose of position. People still take him serious though as attendance at his seminar during the conservative conference showed.
     
  3. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    The DUP are unlikely to make concessions. Mrs. May has, as I understand it, 'bent' her red lines. What concessions has the EU given? Genuine question, not trying to start an arguement.
     
  4. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    7
    But he has nowhere near as much power as Selmayr. His appointment was a joke. And what have you said on the subject?
     
  5. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    May was always going to have a hard time. Nobody trusts her.

    She was a remainer so leavers don't trust her. She is leading us out of the EU so remainers don't trust her. She is trying to put together a plan that is straight down the middle to keep everyone happy. But people are more interested in what they don't like than what they do like.

    No concessions from the EU at all so far. All we have had is them playing hardball and refusing to negotiate.

    But Carney has just said again that they are not preparing for a no deal situation. So are they ready to have talks or are they just plain old incompetent?

    Although yesterday they did say that they were getting ready for a no deal situation. But it seems they hadn't thought about the consequences on their side. Our banks are prepared. If they do nothing their financial side will collapse. And they don't have much time to do anything about it.
     
  6. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    The DUP are fighting for their lives and they see holding the country to ransom as a show of strength that will stand them in good stead in my opinion. Trouble is that they’re anti peace process, there’s two generations of peace children now who have enjoyed an unmeasurable better life than their parents did during the troubles. They’re out of touch. There’s a strong movement for LGBT rights and the DUP are anti everything they stand for. There’s a strong movement for women’s pro choice and again the DUP is anti everything that they stand for. Then you have the incompetence of the DUP with the cash for ash scandal being the pinnacle of that and because they won’t take responsibility for their mistakes democracy has essentially been put on hold for Northern Ireland. DUP voters are literally a dying breed and you have two generations of piece children who don’t want the future that the DUP are trying to carve for them, they look towards the rest of the U.K. and ask why can’t have the same and increasingly they’re looking to the south and see they’re being left behind in that direction too. That’s also before you also factor in the changing dynamics of those who identify themselves as Catholics and those who identify as Protestant and the traditional direction they vote. And before you factor in brexit also, remember Northern Ireland convincingly voted remain.

    The next assembly elections will be interesting, especially for my families home of Fermanagh which is Arelene Fosters seat. I have plenty of family seriously considering or already decided to vote Sinn Fein whereas traditionally they would have voted DUP because of identity. They feel Sinn Fein represents them more in today’s age. It’s as simple as that. I don’t know for sure but it’s my guess Fosters political career is coming to an end.
     
  7. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No I don’t. I always say it a scam, sham and annoying. I posted their version in which they claim there were no sweeteners and I asked you to prove them wrong as I cannot find a definitive answer as to what happened in the end. Not defending anyone. Just find the whole thing weird.
     
  8. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    They. You are referring to 27 nations. Some claim to be more prepared than others. But, the whole thing is down to us. All costs and problems were caused by us. Now you are on to blame the 27 for the actions of the 1. The one only being actually half for the whole crap. It is really 0,5 countries causing problems for 27,5 countries. A joke.
     
  9. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    Which lines has she bent? I don't think she has.
    Maybe she would have done if chequers had been accepted by her party bit it wasn't.
    Freedom of movement and the Irish border appear to be insurmountable issues at the moment.
     
  10. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    Mart, I think that he is blaming the 27 for the inactions of the 27 if they are not preparing for a 'no deal' scenario. Whoever is to blame for the costs and problems is irrelevant in the context of preparedness.
     
  11. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why anyone would think we're ready for a no deal scenario.
    A quick Google pulls up many reports, Some produced by government agencies which detail why we aren't.
     
  12. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    Well, for a start, she wanted to remove the interference of the ECJ. That's not going to happen now.
     
  13. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that we are ready, but are getting ready. Astute seems to think that the 27 are not ready or taking steps to get ready.
     
  14. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    It will in the case on a no deal. Even if a deal is struck I think the ECJ will have no more say in UK matters.
     
  15. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't know to be honest. I know several countries have taken on large numbers of extra customs officers but I don't know beyond that.
    But again, no deal will hurt them, but the burden will be shared. We will take a massive hit.
     
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  16. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    They're not playing hardball, they are sticking to their agreed negotiating guidelines. Some of us didn't expect them to roll over and give into the UK's demands and the narrative that some put across on here that the UK had the upper-hand was always going to leave some red-faced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  17. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    I thought that if there is a deal, the ECJ would still have a say in matters concerning EU citizens living in UK.
     
  18. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    They are. It is a question of how much. But, at the end of the day we are the ones changing the system and if things go wrong we will be blamed.
     
  19. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    Sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines seems to mean making no concessions. I already asked what concessions the EU have made and cannot think of any. Their negotiations seem to consist of rejecting UK's ideas and asking them to be changed, without any suggestions as to what would be acceptable.
     
  20. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Astute heard on comment from Carney about European banks and translated that into no one anywhere has taken any measures.
     
  21. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    That's like being a married man! :emoji_smile:
     
  22. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t the concession article 50? For the EU to be making no concessions there wouldn’t be a mechanism to leave.
     
  23. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    We wrote the rules with the other members. Now we want them to change the rules we helped write because half of our country wants them to. The other half of the population thinks Brexit is mad and understands why the 27 other countries are not going to roll over.
     
  24. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    It's basically a hard Brexit or stay in the CU due to the red flags of the DUP.
     
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  25. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you just have to let them move in with you and then everything that goes wrong is ultimately your fault.
     
  26. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    Article 50 was added by the EU during these negotiations?
     
  27. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    It was written years ago. By an Englishman!
     
  28. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    Then that is hardly a concession by the EU in these negotiations, is it?
     
  29. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. Scottish man. But you’re right that it was written years ago. Part of the Lisbon Treaty IIRC.
     
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  30. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    The concession is a mechanism to leave. The mechanics of leaving has been known for some time and leave should be about following article 50. Not article 50 except this or article 50 plus that. It’s hardly breaking news.
     
  31. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    Eh? Don't know what you mean?
     
  32. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    I asked about EU's concessions during the negotiations. Article 50 has been in existence for a long time, therefore it isn't a concession made during these negotiations.
     
  33. clint van damme

    clint van damme Well-Known Member

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    Who said it was? You asked if it had been written for the purpose of the UK leaving. It wasn't, it was written to be part of the process should any country want to leave.

    It's nothing to do with any concession
     
  34. skyblueindorset

    skyblueindorset Well-Known Member

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    We are obviously posting at cross purposes. My original question was about what concessions the EU has made in these negotiations. Tony suggested that Article 50 is a concession, hence a few posts about about it. I would still like to know what concessions the EU has made in these negotiations.
     
  35. skybluetony176

    skybluetony176 Well-Known Member

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    Before the Lisbon Treaty there was no mechanism for leaving the EU. Article 50 is set of prerequisite concessions, terms and conditions so a country can leave the EU.
     

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