The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (56 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

No he hasn't.

So what part of anyone or any organisation who has done wrong needs looking into and problem resolved/reversed/prosecuted don't you understand?

Or would you like to point out where I have defended him in the slightest?

I have not said you're defending him but wherever their is power there is always going to be some level or wrongdoing or corruption to a certain extent.

The fact he is in such a powerful position is alarming, and that's before taking his previous behaviour into account.

 

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[Astute]

Who is defending Selmayr? I posted the argument of the EC, and asked what happened in the end. There a couple of versions out there and I thought you claimed to know what happened. You just said it happened.

You always defend the reason why he should keep the position that he shouldn't have.

 

[Astute]

The factions making sure of it are mostly within the UK and May's own red lines - she has boxed herself into a corner that I don't think she will be able to get out of.

I was mocked on here before by leavers for claiming it would take at least a decade for the UK to fully leave

So you think we will fully leave? I'm not so sure.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you think we will fully leave? I'm not so sure.

Depends what you mean. Joining the EEA - as originally championed by Farage - would technically be fully leaving the EU but he and others have since moved the goalposts.

 

[clint van damme]

So you think we will fully leave? I'm not so sure.

in order for us not to leave with no deal either the Government, the DUP or the EU is going to have to allow one of their 'red lines' to be crossed.

 

[skybluetony176]

Depends what you mean. Joining the EEA - as originally championed by Farage - would technically be fully leaving the EU but he and others have since moved the goalposts.

I think it’s already been posted on here but there’s a montage of Nigel Ferage saying he’d love it (in a Kevin Keegan stylee) if we were like Norway. It was pretty much Ukip policy at one point but like you say the goal posts have been moved. Not just Ukip either. I’ve made the point several times about Boris writing in his column the Monday after the referendum where he laid out his brexit vision. It was closer to EEA membership than the chequers deal could ever dream of being. Yet again the goalposts have changed. Mind you this is the man who said he’d lay down in front of diggers and lorries to stop a third runway at Heathrow and then was conveniently out the country when Parliament voted on it so hardly surprising the juxtapose of position. People still take him serious though as attendance at his seminar during the conservative conference showed.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

The DUP are unlikely to make concessions. Mrs. May has, as I understand it, 'bent' her red lines. What concessions has the EU given? Genuine question, not trying to start an arguement.

 

[Astute]

7

I have not said you're defending him but wherever their is power there is always going to be some level or wrongdoing or corruption to a certain extent.

The fact he is in such a powerful position is alarming, and that's before taking his previous behaviour into account.

But he has nowhere near as much power as Selmayr. His appointment was a joke. And what have you said on the subject?

 

[Astute]

The DUP are unlikely to make concessions. Mrs. May has, as I understand it, 'bent' her red lines. What concessions has the EU given? Genuine question, not trying to start an arguement.

May was always going to have a hard time. Nobody trusts her.

She was a remainer so leavers don't trust her. She is leading us out of the EU so remainers don't trust her. She is trying to put together a plan that is straight down the middle to keep everyone happy. But people are more interested in what they don't like than what they do like.

No concessions from the EU at all so far. All we have had is them playing hardball and refusing to negotiate.

But Carney has just said again that they are not preparing for a no deal situation. So are they ready to have talks or are they just plain old incompetent?

Although yesterday they did say that they were getting ready for a no deal situation. But it seems they hadn't thought about the consequences on their side. Our banks are prepared. If they do nothing their financial side will collapse. And they don't have much time to do anything about it.

 

[skybluetony176]

The DUP are unlikely to make concessions. Mrs. May has, as I understand it, 'bent' her red lines. What concessions has the EU given? Genuine question, not trying to start an arguement.

The DUP are fighting for their lives and they see holding the country to ransom as a show of strength that will stand them in good stead in my opinion. Trouble is that they’re anti peace process, there’s two generations of peace children now who have enjoyed an unmeasurable better life than their parents did during the troubles. They’re out of touch. There’s a strong movement for LGBT rights and the DUP are anti everything they stand for. There’s a strong movement for women’s pro choice and again the DUP is anti everything that they stand for. Then you have the incompetence of the DUP with the cash for ash scandal being the pinnacle of that and because they won’t take responsibility for their mistakes democracy has essentially been put on hold for Northern Ireland. DUP voters are literally a dying breed and you have two generations of piece children who don’t want the future that the DUP are trying to carve for them, they look towards the rest of the U.K. and ask why can’t have the same and increasingly they’re looking to the south and see they’re being left behind in that direction too. That’s also before you also factor in the changing dynamics of those who identify themselves as Catholics and those who identify as Protestant and the traditional direction they vote. And before you factor in brexit also, remember Northern Ireland convincingly voted remain.

The next assembly elections will be interesting, especially for my families home of Fermanagh which is Arelene Fosters seat. I have plenty of family seriously considering or already decided to vote Sinn Fein whereas traditionally they would have voted DUP because of identity. They feel Sinn Fein represents them more in today’s age. It’s as simple as that. I don’t know for sure but it’s my guess Fosters political career is coming to an end.

 

[martcov]

You always defend the reason why he should keep the position that he shouldn't have.

No I don’t. I always say it a scam, sham and annoying. I posted their version in which they claim there were no sweeteners and I asked you to prove them wrong as I cannot find a definitive answer as to what happened in the end. Not defending anyone. Just find the whole thing weird.

 

[martcov]

May was always going to have a hard time. Nobody trusts her.

She was a remainer so leavers don't trust her. She is leading us out of the EU so remainers don't trust her. She is trying to put together a plan that is straight down the middle to keep everyone happy. But people are more interested in what they don't like than what they do like.

No concessions from the EU at all so far. All we have had is them playing hardball and refusing to negotiate.

But Carney has just said again that they are not preparing for a no deal situation. So are they ready to have talks or are they just plain old incompetent?

Although yesterday they did say that they were getting ready for a no deal situation. But it seems they hadn't thought about the consequences on their side. Our banks are prepared. If they do nothing their financial side will collapse. And they don't have much time to do anything about it.

They. You are referring to 27 nations. Some claim to be more prepared than others. But, the whole thing is down to us. All costs and problems were caused by us. Now you are on to blame the 27 for the actions of the 1. The one only being actually half for the whole crap. It is really 0,5 countries causing problems for 27,5 countries. A joke.

 

[clint van damme]

The DUP are unlikely to make concessions. Mrs. May has, as I understand it, 'bent' her red lines. What concessions has the EU given? Genuine question, not trying to start an arguement.

Which lines has she bent? I don't think she has.
Maybe she would have done if chequers had been accepted by her party bit it wasn't.
Freedom of movement and the Irish border appear to be insurmountable issues at the moment.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

They. You are referring to 27 nations. Some claim to be more prepared than others. But, the whole thing is down to us. All costs and problems were caused by us. Now you are on to blame the 27 for the actions of the 1. The one only being actually half for the whole crap. It is really 0,5 countries causing problems for 27,5 countries. A joke.

Mart, I think that he is blaming the 27 for the inactions of the 27 if they are not preparing for a 'no deal' scenario. Whoever is to blame for the costs and problems is irrelevant in the context of preparedness.

 

[clint van damme]

Mart, I think that he is blaming the 27 for the inactions of the 27 if they are not preparing for a 'no deal' scenario. Whoever is to blame for the costs and problems is irrelevant in the context of preparedness.

I'm not sure why anyone would think we're ready for a no deal scenario.
A quick Google pulls up many reports, Some produced by government agencies which detail why we aren't.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Which lines has she bent? I don't think she has.

Well, for a start, she wanted to remove the interference of the ECJ. That's not going to happen now.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

I'm not sure why anyone would think we're ready for a no deal scenario.
A quick Google pulls up many reports, Some produced by government agencies which detail why we aren't.

I don't think that we are ready, but are getting ready. Astute seems to think that the 27 are not ready or taking steps to get ready.

 

[clint van damme]

Well, for a start, she wanted to remove the interference of the ECJ. That's not going to happen now.

It will in the case on a no deal. Even if a deal is struck I think the ECJ will have no more say in UK matters.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't think that we are ready, but are getting ready. Astute seems to think that the 27 are not ready or taking steps to get ready.

I wouldn't know to be honest. I know several countries have taken on large numbers of extra customs officers but I don't know beyond that.
But again, no deal will hurt them, but the burden will be shared. We will take a massive hit.

 

[Sick Boy]

May was always going to have a hard time. Nobody trusts her.

She was a remainer so leavers don't trust her. She is leading us out of the EU so remainers don't trust her. She is trying to put together a plan that is straight down the middle to keep everyone happy. But people are more interested in what they don't like than what they do like.

No concessions from the EU at all so far. All we have had is them playing hardball and refusing to negotiate.

But Carney has just said again that they are not preparing for a no deal situation. So are they ready to have talks or are they just plain old incompetent?

Although yesterday they did say that they were getting ready for a no deal situation. But it seems they hadn't thought about the consequences on their side. Our banks are prepared. If they do nothing their financial side will collapse. And they don't have much time to do anything about it.

They're not playing hardball, they are sticking to their agreed negotiating guidelines. Some of us didn't expect them to roll over and give into the UK's demands and the narrative that some put across on here that the UK had the upper-hand was always going to leave some red-faced.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

It will in the case on a no deal. Even if a deal is struck I think the ECJ will have no more say in UK matters.

I thought that if there is a deal, the ECJ would still have a say in matters concerning EU citizens living in UK.

 

[martcov]

Mart, I think that he is blaming the 27 for the inactions of the 27 if they are not preparing for a 'no deal' scenario. Whoever is to blame for the costs and problems is irrelevant in the context of preparedness.

They are. It is a question of how much. But, at the end of the day we are the ones changing the system and if things go wrong we will be blamed.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

They're not playing hardball, they are sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines. Some of us didn't expect them to roll over and give into the UK's demands.

Sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines seems to mean making no concessions. I already asked what concessions the EU have made and cannot think of any. Their negotiations seem to consist of rejecting UK's ideas and asking them to be changed, without any suggestions as to what would be acceptable.

 

[martcov]

I don't think that we are ready, but are getting ready. Astute seems to think that the 27 are not ready or taking steps to get ready.

Astute heard on comment from Carney about European banks and translated that into no one anywhere has taken any measures.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

and if things go wrong we will be blamed.

That's like being a married man! :emoji_smile:

 

[skybluetony176]

Sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines seems to mean making no concessions. I already asked what concessions the EU have made and cannot think of any. Their negotiations seem to consist of rejecting UK's ideas and asking them to be changed, without any suggestions as to what would be acceptable.

Isn’t the concession article 50? For the EU to be making no concessions there wouldn’t be a mechanism to leave.

 

[martcov]

Sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines seems to mean making no concessions. I already asked what concessions the EU have made and cannot think of any. Their negotiations seem to consist of rejecting UK's ideas and asking them to be changed, without any suggestions as to what would be acceptable.

We wrote the rules with the other members. Now we want them to change the rules we helped write because half of our country wants them to. The other half of the population thinks Brexit is mad and understands why the 27 other countries are not going to roll over.

 

[Sick Boy]

Sticking to their agreed negotiating guide lines seems to mean making no concessions. I already asked what concessions the EU have made and cannot think of any. Their negotiations seem to consist of rejecting UK's ideas and asking them to be changed, without any suggestions as to what would be acceptable.

It's basically a hard Brexit or stay in the CU due to the red flags of the DUP.

 

[martcov]

That's like being a married man! :emoji_smile:

Yes, you just have to let them move in with you and then everything that goes wrong is ultimately your fault.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Isn’t the concession article 50? For the EU to be making no concessions there wouldn’t be a mechanism to leave.

Article 50 was added by the EU during these negotiations?

 

[clint van damme]

Article 50 was added by the EU during these negotiations?

It was written years ago. By an Englishman!

 

[skyblueinBaku]

It was written years ago. By an Englishman!

Then that is hardly a concession by the EU in these negotiations, is it?

 

[skybluetony176]

It was written years ago. By an Englishman!

Not quite. Scottish man. But you’re right that it was written years ago. Part of the Lisbon Treaty IIRC.

 

[skybluetony176]

Then that is hardly a concession by the EU in these negotiations, is it?

The concession is a mechanism to leave. The mechanics of leaving has been known for some time and leave should be about following article 50. Not article 50 except this or article 50 plus that. It’s hardly breaking news.

 

[clint van damme]

Then that is hardly a concession by the EU in these negotiations, is it?

Eh? Don't know what you mean?