Match Day Thread - Sky Blue Sports & Leisure Limited and Others -v- Coventry City Council and Others (12 Viewers)

[djbooth]

Sisu are continually dragging it out in the hope that Wasps run out of money so that they can pick up the stadium. Flip side is that Wasps need the income that the football club bring in and I doubt that they'd want to be seen as the one's who forced the football club out of its own City. I know people will jump straight on the whole Northampton thing but that's in the past now and if the football club are forced away again then it will cast Wasps in a pretty poor light with the Coventry public, the very one's who they're trying to attract.

I was thinking the same thing. I estimate that we bring around 3 million in terms of revenue. Do wasps really want to lose that. I have friends who are wasps fans and they mentioned that since they have put the prices up on beer etc. They are spending less. They are now having a few pints elsewhere before the game instead of the rioch. They also said that since the Tickets prices have gone up and there are less star players this season they are less likely to go.

 

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[SkyblueBri]

All you lot having a spat with each other look at the current facts as of next May we have no home ground, if that stays the case there’s a real chance our football club will cease to exist. Don’t think for one minute this will never happen think again

I agree don’t care who said what or to dig up old history. We are looking at the end game with a very poor negotiation stance from our side. Don’t doubt this time next year we could be homeless

 

[Nick]

I was thinking the same thing. I estimate that we bring around 3 million in terms of revenue. Do wasps really want to lose that. I have friends who are wasps fans and they mentioned that since they have put the prices up on beer etc. They are spending less. They are now having a few pints elsewhere before the game instead of the rioch. They also said that since the Tickets prices have gone up and there are less star players this season they are less likely to go.

They sound like massive fans. What they need is a flag to wave to keep them happy.

 

[Otis]

The scare mongering starts right here.

Let me guess, we should do everything and anything Wasps want to get a "deal"?

Lets roll out the "Jimmy Hill Way" twitter account, get some boycotts on the go.

That's the spirit!

Now you're thinking clearly, Nick.

 

[djbooth]

They sound like massive fans. What they need is a flag to wave to keep them happy.

All fairness they live near Henley so they are not local. Going to a game close to £100 if you look at travel and things. When they were in Wycombe this cost was around £40.

 

[Captain Dart]

I was thinking the same thing. I estimate that we bring around 3 million in terms of revenue. Do wasps really want to lose that. I have friends who are wasps fans and they mentioned that since they have put the prices up on beer etc. They are spending less. They are now having a few pints elsewhere before the game instead of the rioch. They also said that since the Tickets prices have gone up and there are less star players this season they are less likely to go.

FYI...

• Total turnover £17m for 6 months of which I estimate CCFC would have contributed less than 400K

 

[SkyblueBri]

I have already asked this question but got no reply. Does anybody know what happens re costs ?

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

My take on any new deal is enough is enough from Wasps point of view and they will seek revenue elsewhere .

 

[Nick]

That's the spirit!

Now you're thinking clearly, Nick.

I was joking but it looks like it was actually happening. Self publicising Muppets.

 

[skybluetony176]

Some people clearly having a bad day in the office.

 

[djbooth]

FYI...

Wow. I thought it would be much higher than that. I imagine that over a 6 month period during the football season would generate more. Let’s say that we had 100k attendance that mean less than 40p per person. I normally have a pint before and half time plus hot dog that’s over £10 spent. Good job that don’t have to forecast income for s living. I’ll be sacked

 

[fernandopartridge]

FYI...

One guess against another in fairness.

Wow. I thought it would be much higher than that. I imagine that over a 6 month period during the football season would generate more. Let’s say that we had 100k attendance that mean less than 40p per person. I normally have a pint before and half time plus hot dog that’s over £10 spent. Good job that don’t have to forecast income for s living. I’ll be sacked

In fairness it's a guess in the same that yours was. Granted osb is educated in that particular field. It would still have to be weighed up against the likely cost & revenue of staging alternative events at the Arena over 23 times a season and the demand for such events. For example, CCFC play a lot of midweek matches which have limited impact on the ability to generate revenue already.

 

[djbooth]

One guess against another in fairness.


In fairness it's a guess in the same that yours was. Granted osb is educated in that particular field. It would still have to be weighed up against the likely cost & revenue of staging alternative events at the Arena over 23 times a season and the demand for such events. For example, CCFC play a lot of midweek matches which have limited impact on the ability to generate revenue already.

Osb really knows his stuff where I’m clueless on these things. I’m basing my estimate on my own experience and match routine. I did leave at the part when I was say hello to Jimmy when I past his statue

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

I have already asked this question but got no reply. Does anybody know what happens re costs ?

The decision on the award of costs is one for the Judge, but normally the losing side in this level of legal challenge has to pick up the costs.

 

[shmmeee]

Quick! Arrange a new Ricoh deal while there’s technically no legals!

 

[Nick]

Quick! Arrange a new Ricoh deal while there’s technically no legals!

Ha I did think earlier that at the minute there aren't any legals when I read Wasps saying their position is the same.

I assume though there will be and that everybody knows about it. Hence the statement yesterday.

 

[chiefdave]

How many times can a court decision be appealed, surely all appeals are exhausted at some point?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Lets hope this outcome doesn't stop further negotiations with the insects. If Wasps have a entrenched view on the club (or owners) then we could be in the shit. Clearly they will pull this to the line to try and force a preferential deal but lets face it 'goodwill' has long died between the two parties now.

Sisu will have caused the issue with wasps if that is the outcome. Bloody idiots. Why has fisher reappeared?

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The ball is now in SISU's court and if we can take their action in pushing this case, as a genuine grievance at wrong doing by the council - rather than a tactic to distress Wasps - then the door is open for them to attempt to improve the relationship with the landlord.
Whilst the amount of money CCFC currently contributes to the Wasps coffers is suggested at being under £400k, we should not overplay our value to Wasps. It makes good sense to have CCFC as a tenant, but if that tenant continues to cause them significant issues then the risk is that we will not be playing at then Ricoh next season - simply because the relationship is fractured.
How many of us would continue to rent a flat/house to someone, who keeps taken us to court? I'm not sure I would!
The chance is now for SISU to build bridges and offer a long term tenancy to the landlord at a guaranteed rent, which Wasps must be keen to accept and in the interim wait to see if Wasps go bust and hope to pick up the pieces of the business.

 

[GaryJones]

Watching these legal wrangles are like watching Coventry City each week - you never know what you're going to get or what the end result will be!
Lets hope its more like the Charlton away display rather than Blackpool away.....!

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

The ball is now in SISU's court and if we can take their action in pushing this case, as a genuine grievance at wrong doing by the council - rather than a tactic to distress Wasps - then the door is open for them to attempt to improve the relationship with the landlord.
Whilst the amount of money CCFC currently contributes to the Wasps coffers is suggested at being under £400k, we should not overplay our value to Wasps. It makes good sense to have CCFC as a tenant, but if that tenant continues to cause them significant issues then the risk is that we will not be playing at then Ricoh next season - simply because the relationship is fractured.
How many of us would continue to rent a flat/house to someone, who keeps taken us to court? I'm not sure I would!
The chance is now for SISU to build bridges and offer a long term tenancy to the landlord at a guaranteed rent, which Wasps must be keen to accept and in the interim wait to see if Wasps go bust and hope to pick up the pieces of the business.

I can see why Wasps would refuse to have us there but i think there are two other ways they could look at it (hopefully).

CCFC brings income and there is no other viable tenant in the area. Turfing us out would likely have no bearing on a SISU decision to continue legals or not.

If they were to consider it in those terms we may well see further short-term deals put in place.

 

[oldskyblue58]

One guess against another in fairness.

Yep it is. Others will have different ideas and they may well be right. but based on what we have been told.Rent around £100k plus F&B, at that time, it doesnt point to large numbers. It was stated that CCFC didnt make much out of F&B (15% of the Turnover = 15k according fisher) with a 50:50 split so that implies neither did Wasps.

It is likely that the impact of losing CCFC would be more now i agree, because of increased crowds, new suppliers, CCFC putting events on etc but in the scheme of things the lost turnover is not going to be the key - what Wasps earn from CCFC by way of net profit is.

I think it is reasonable assume that Wasps will from here on in seek to maximise their rental income because that will have the biggest effect on their bottom line. Wasps have to show the bond holders net profits not the turnover. What they call a "commercial" rent is the simplest and consistent way to have that effect, the F&B a little extra.

I think it was the 2015 Wasps accounts that suggested the take from football crowds was £1.96 including VAT per head (approx £1.63 excl VAT). Average crowd say 10,000 x 23 matches x 1.63 = £375K take out the direct costs and the value in terms of profit is around £122k and that is split 50:50

Will they look at a long term deal - unlikely whilst any legal actions are happening. They might do a short term deal but even then expect the rent to go up, and why would they add in an increase to F&B for CCFC if they dont earn much from it in the first place?

The working relationship with Boddy and staff down might be better but it was still CCFC in the shape of Otium & SBS&L taking action against CCC & Wasps. This argument that CCFC is different to the legal entity is a myth put forward to deflect criticism by those in charge of CCFC

We are not stuck between a rock and a hard place ............ we are simply in a very hard place right now, with Wasps having the whip hand and the only people that can change it being our owners...... either by stopping all current & future legals or selling up ..........i am not holding my breath as to a material change

 

[ceetee]

It's all very well arguing about how much revenue Wasps receive from CCFC games, and just as balance the four of us spend nothing over and above our STs and a program for my friend's grandson, none of which goes to Wasps.

Isn't it significant that they have been unable to attract a new Stadium sponsor, and isn't the uncertainty over CCFC's tenure a significant issue in that respect.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

I have already asked this question but got no reply. Does anybody know what happens re costs ?

As far as I am aware and without reading the whole judgment, there was no ruling re: costs, in which case each party will pay their own.

There's the Maddison - Leicester sell on bonus... Eugh...

 

[oldskyblue58]

it might be or........

Wasps are asking for too much
the stadium sponsorship market is not as robust as it used to be and the figures not what they used to be...... the big deals are the exception not the rule
does a troublesome tenant add to or hamper sponsorship?
Is the whole complex reliant on its sport for sponsorship or do other income areas play a part
CCFC are in the news, up until recently, for all the wrong reasons even now we get the bad stuff every so often

I dont know why there is no sponsorship deal, it could be because CCFC are not tied in to it, it might be other factors

I am sure Wasps would love a long term deal with CCFC - even with CCFC in League 1 - it adds to the value of what they own. Presently CCFC lease has little value but a long term one would clearly enhance that

I am sure a successful CCFC would be attractive to Wasps - but i am not sure i am confident about what Wasps might do to help CCFC do that

 

[Captain Dart]

I have already asked this question but got no reply. Does anybody know what happens re costs ?

 

[Nick]

it might be or........

Wasps are asking for too much
the stadium sponsorship market is not as robust as it used to be and the figures not what they used to be...... the big deals are the exception not the rule
does a troublesome tenant add to or hamper sponsorship?
Is the whole complex reliant on its sport for sponsorship or do other income areas play a part
CCFC are in the news, up until recently, for all the wrong reasons even now we get the bad stuff every so often

I dont know why there is no sponsorship deal, it could be because CCFC are not tied in to it, it might be other factors

I am sure Wasps would love a long term deal with CCFC - even with CCFC in League 1 - it adds to the value of what they own. Presently CCFC lease has little value but a long term one would clearly enhance that

I am sure a successful CCFC would be attractive to Wasps - but i am not sure i am confident about what Wasps might do to help CCFC do that

Wasps had a player banned for drugs, they got caught fiddling to mislead investors. They aren't really the angels made our are they?

A successful ccfc wouldnt need wasps, they could laugh them out of the city if they got to the premier League (very remote chance)

 

[oldskyblue58]

I would think the fact that the club is in a better financial position with the prospect of player sale incomes is likely to encourage Wasps not to be so sympathetic over the rent

 

[Nick]

I would think the fact that the club is in a better financial position with the prospect of player sale incomes is likely to encourage Wasps not to be so sympathetic over the rent

Sadly some of our fans will be drooling at the thought of that.

Is the rent really that sympathetic? Is there anybody else who gets the stadium a few hours a month and what do they pay?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Wasps had a player banned for drugs, they got caught fiddling to mislead investors. They aren't really the angels made our are they?

A successful ccfc wouldnt need wasps, they could laugh them out of the city if they got to the premier League (very remote chance)

no they are not angels by any stretch of the imagination i agree

...... as for league aspirations ................ it takes money and lots of it, just to stay in the Championship, going to be a long wait Nick

 

[Nick]

no they are not angels by any stretch of the imagination i agree

...... as for league aspirations ................ it takes money and lots of it, just to stay in the Championship, going to be a long wait Nick

Can't really blame news about ccfc or give it as a potential reason for no stadium deal and not mention the fact that them providing faked evidence to auditors may also be off-putting?

You may not mean to, but in this thread you are coming across as an intelligent version of Italia. (In the nicest possible way).

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Sadly some of our fans will be drooling at the thought of that.

Is the rent really that sympathetic? Is there anybody else who gets the stadium a few hours a month and what do they pay?

Wasps will probably make an assessment over the costs and risks of hosting CCFC against the monetary returns. I would guess that costs will be significantly greater than at present for less commitment in maintaining the pitch for football usage.

 

[no_loyalty]

I really hope that Nuneaton Borough do not go out of business:-

1. It would be awful for all concerned with their club
2. Their ground would be available as an option for Sisu to move us there

 

[Covstu]

it might be or........

Wasps are asking for too much
the stadium sponsorship market is not as robust as it used to be and the figures not what they used to be...... the big deals are the exception not the rule
does a troublesome tenant add to or hamper sponsorship?
Is the whole complex reliant on its sport for sponsorship or do other income areas play a part
CCFC are in the news, up until recently, for all the wrong reasons even now we get the bad stuff every so often

I dont know why there is no sponsorship deal, it could be because CCFC are not tied in to it, it might be other factors

I am sure Wasps would love a long term deal with CCFC - even with CCFC in League 1 - it adds to the value of what they own. Presently CCFC lease has little value but a long term one would clearly enhance that

I am sure a successful CCFC would be attractive to Wasps - but i am not sure i am confident about what Wasps might do to help CCFC do that

A lot of companies are Curbing marketing activity other than basic until Brexit has been made clearer (if that’s possible). Why would JLR sponsor a stadium for 10 years when they are saying they could leave the country. Would be madness

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

Wasps statement (from CT)
A spokesperson for Wasps Group said: “We have noted today’s judgement from the Court of Appeal and the response from the relevant parties. We await further developments and, in the meantime, our position regarding the possibility of future discussions with CCFC remains unchanged.”

The balls in your court SISU, sorry for the pun.

If SISU don't drop the legals then CCFC will be homeless next season.