The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (172 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So who said it then Tony?

Are you brave enough to say?

Me according to you. Are you now admitting that you’re wrong?

 

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[skybluetony176]

Not like you and Tony. It is clear you are trying to change history here.

Look at emigration from Ireland in the 40’s and 50’s under De Velera’s rule as Taoiseach. That was it’s peak. It was over half a million from a country that barely had a population of five million at the time. Just to be clear I’m talking about the country of Ireland not the island of Ireland.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes......since the potato famine. This is when it was at the present rate leaving Romania now. Just like I said earlier. But you still try to make out that I am wrong.

You would think that I have had a go at the EU with the way you two have been. It isn't the fault of the EU. The money given to Romania has been wasted and not been used for the future. But miss out this part. You normally do.

The rates at the time of the potato famine was for the island of Ireland. The rates in the 40’s and 50’s were for the country of Ireland ie not including the provenance of Ulster.

 

[Astute]

Me according to you. Are you now admitting that you’re wrong?

When I am right?

Still waiting for the slightest evidence from you. Evidence that doesn't exist. That is why you can't find any.

 

[Astute]

Look at emigration from Ireland in the 40’s and 50’s under De Velera’s rule as Taoiseach. That was it’s peak. It was over half a million from a country that barely had a population of five million at the time. Just to be clear I’m talking about the country of Ireland not the island of Ireland.

I brought it up before. Somehow you missed it. And it wasn't as high as you said. But even if it was it would be well under half of that in Romania.

Evidence of a quarter of Ireland leaving as you said?

 

[Astute]

The rates at the time of the potato famine was for the island of Ireland. The rates in the 40’s and 50’s were for the country of Ireland ie not including the provenance of Ulster.

It was that rate throughout Ireland. Everybody suffered. It was leave or risk starvation.

So why are the pair of you trying to rewrite history? Is it to take the news away from Tusk saying that Poland is at grave risk of leaving the EU and that the EU would most probably not try anywhere near as hard to get them to stay in the EU? I wonder why they wouldn't try as hard.

 

[skybluetony176]

It was that rate throughout Ireland. Everybody suffered. It was leave or risk starvation.

So why are the pair of you trying to rewrite history? Is it to take the news away from Tusk saying that Poland is at grave risk of leaving the EU and that the EU would most probably not try anywhere near as hard to get them to stay in the EU? I wonder why they wouldn't try as hard.

More ignorance. It wasn’t leave or die. You could convert to the Protestant faith from catholic and receive support from the British monarchy. As my maternal grandmothers family did. Name changed from Fitzpatrick (Catholic) to Kirkpatrick (Protestant) as did other variations of names beginning with Fitz. My maternal grandfathers family always lived in Fermanagh which largely stood on its own feet in the famine due to the large number of islands in Loch Erne which were farmed and patoto blight only crossed land not water.

In contrast the emigration under De Valeras reign was economically driven, as it is in Romania. In contrast to Romania emigration from Ireland in this period tended to be permanent. The majority of Romanians will go home once they’ve achieved what they set out to achieve for their families. Much the same as we’ve seen with Polish emigration in the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

I brought it up before. Somehow you missed it. And it wasn't as high as you said. But even if it was it would be well under half of that in Romania.

Evidence of a quarter of Ireland leaving as you said?

Again, I never said that. You’ve admitted that once and now you’ve changed your mind again and I apparently did say it again.

Also the Romanian emigration isn’t completely permanent. The numbers that settle for good outside of Romania will be far less. I suspect that you’re looking at gross numbers not nett.

 

[AVWskyblue]

So now it has progressed from emigration to mass exodus.

Also, as something who is omnipresent and only 'speaks the truth', I am sure you are aware that Romania is about 5-times the size Ireland, population wise.

"Omniscient "

Sent from my 5010X using Tapatalk

 

[Grendel]

What is being discussed here? I’m confused on this Irish Romania discussion

 

[Astute]

Again, I never said that. You’ve admitted that once and now you’ve changed your mind again and I apparently did say it again.

Also the Romanian emigration isn’t completely permanent. The numbers that settle for good outside of Romania will be far less. I suspect that you’re looking at gross numbers not nett.

You never said what?

And yes it is overall...as you call nett. The amount their population has gone down by.

So what is there to suggest most of the Romanians will go back to Romania? The money given to them has been wasted as I said earlier. The country is in a worse state now than before. A lot of the older people rely on money sent to them from those who have left.

And why no comment yet about what Tusk has said about the grave possibility of Poland leaving the EU and them not trying to keep them in as much as they are with the UK? Struggling to think of excuses for him?

Tusks job finishes next year. He has been asked if he will be returning to politics in Poland. But he hasn't replied. Many see him as a traitor. This is the least biased from either side I could find.

Tusk says Poland risks following UK out of EU | Reuters

 

[Astute]

What is being discussed here? I’m confused on this Irish Romania discussion

Romania is the same for people leaving Ireland it is said. Although the sidesteps, backsteps and insults tell the whole story.

 

[Astute]

And there is the pyramid scheme that lost thousands of Polish people their life savings when he was PM. A part of it was an airline that employed his son. The hearing continued on Monday. Maybe this is something to do with what he has said about Poland leaving the EU.

Tusk grilled by Polish MPs in pyramid scheme probe

 

[skybluetony176]

You never said what?

And yes it is overall...as you call nett. The amount their population has gone down by.

So what is there to suggest most of the Romanians will go back to Romania? The money given to them has been wasted as I said earlier. The country is in a worse state now than before. A lot of the older people rely on money sent to them from those who have left.

And why no comment yet about what Tusk has said about the grave possibility of Poland leaving the EU and them not trying to keep them in as much as they are with the UK? Struggling to think of excuses for him?

Tusks job finishes next year. He has been asked if he will be returning to politics in Poland. But he hasn't replied. Many see him as a traitor. This is the least biased from either side I could find.

Tusk says Poland risks following UK out of EU | Reuters

What you said I did.

Emigration is the only reason that their population has gone down then?

What is there to suggest that Romanians will go back? One, the article you linked that says they’re leaving children with relatives why they work in the EU, if they were leaving for good they would move lock stock and barrel not leave their children behind. Two the amount of seasonal workers who come and go home every year, I was watching countryfile a couple of weeks ago and they were talking to Romanian couples who come and go every year for seasonal farm work leaving their children in the care of relatives. You could quite easily use summertime figures to argue one case and then show winter figures to argue the other. Three, in a word Poland as an example of EU inside migrantion. This may surprise you but not every migrant from Poland that has come here has settled here, the majority have gone home once they’ve achieved what they set out to do. It’s carousel immigration.

Why would I talk about Tusk and entertain you in the distraction you’re clambering too?

 

[Astute]

Why would I talk about Tusk and entertain you in the distraction you’re clambering too?

All the evidence is here in your own words. Do you think anyone who isn't biased would be taken in by what you are now saying?

Of course you don't want to comment on what Tusk has been saying. You make out that the whole of the EU is string and together. You would have to call Tusk a liar for this to be true.

 

[skybluetony176]

All the evidence is here in your own words. Do you think anyone who isn't biased would be taken in by what you are now saying?

Of course you don't want to comment on what Tusk has been saying. You make out that the whole of the EU is string and together. You would have to call Tusk a liar for this to be true.

I answered your questions and you ignore it to concentrate on your distraction. No surprise.

 

[Grendel]

And there is the pyramid scheme that lost thousands of Polish people their life savings when he was PM. A part of it was an airline that employed his son. The hearing continued on Monday. Maybe this is something to do with what he has said about Poland leaving the EU.

Tusk grilled by Polish MPs in pyramid scheme probe

Yes I’ve raised this before - mad Mart and his chums like to sweep it under the carpet

 

[Sick Boy]

What is being discussed here? I’m confused on this Irish Romania discussion

It was to highlight how EU membership has made Ireland more prosperous and reduced emigration. Unless you too believe that Irish emigration was only an issue during the Potato famine?

 

[skybluetony176]

Car parts plants to close on Brexit worries

Anyhow. Meanwhile in the real world.

 

[Grendel]

It was to highlight how EU membership has made Ireland more prosperous and reduced emigration. Unless you too believe that Irish emigration was only an issue during the Potato famine?

I really do not get the comparison with Romania though - Romania is a deeply impoverished country and according to any economic projection will remain so for several generations

People will continue to leave purely due to the EU which allows an opportunity of far higher wages - why do I care if they get to be stronger anyway as the only reason they will is if we contribute - which I don’t want to

 

[martcov]

The potato famine? Fucking hell.

That was organised by the EU.

 

[martcov]

As expected.

Yes it is good that they can earn good money. And we should turn a blind eye to the rest of it. It is fantastic news that up to a quarter of the population has left. And even better that most that have left are of working age. And even better that they can't fill vacancies because they can earn many times more in other places in the EU.

So answer one thing. What does the future hold for Romania?

Wage increases? Better education for their youth? Romania is a large country. I’ve driven through it a couple of times. I hope they grow wealthier. Had great times there.

 

[dutchman]

It was to highlight how EU membership has made Ireland more prosperous and reduced emigration. Unless you too believe that Irish emigration was only an issue during the Potato famine?

More Irish people still emigrating than moving back

Tthe number of graduates leaving is rising, up 15 per cent since last year, which Fianna Fáil spokesperson on jobs Niall Collins said was an indication that “graduates are prioritising quality of life and cost of living when deciding where to work”.

“The annual action plan for jobs is failing to retain skilled Irish talent with decent jobs domestically. With rising living costs across all metrics and acute housing shortages, the country has severe competitiveness and policy challenges to overcome this deficit,” he said.

“Can our country really afford to be losing 500 graduates every week, many of whom are medical and nursing graduates who are desperately needed in the Irish health service?”

The number of 20-somethings living in Ireland overall has dropped dramatically since 2011, from 756,300 to 640,300, a fall of more than 15 per cent.

 

[skybluetony176]

Romania is a deeply impoverished country and according to any economic projection will remain so for several generations

You don’t get the comparison but then go on to spell it out impeccably. Ireland was very much the same in the period that Romania is being compared to it.

 

[martcov]

All the evidence is here in your own words. Do you think anyone who isn't biased would be taken in by what you are now saying?

Of course you don't want to comment on what Tusk has been saying. You make out that the whole of the EU is string and together. You would have to call Tusk a liar for this to be true.

Tusk has said, according to your link, that the Poles should watch out that they don’t end up like the UK and accidentally out of the EU and up sxxt creek without a paddle. The Polish eurosceptics just lost local elections in the cities to more liberal parties. Same as the Dems recapturing the House in the USA and the Greens growing in strength in Germany. And a 20000 poll in the UK showing a trend towards remain. It seems people are beginning to react to the BS being hurled around about migrants, right wing parties trying to bend the rules back to the 30s, and people blaming all problems on the EU.

Now you’re on to Romanians. They’re poor, they come here to work ( Roma not included in that ). They send their money home to the old folk. The country was a ruin under Cercesceau and the corrupt successors. You blame the EU for giving them the chance to earn money. You want to send them back to unemployment and poverty under the guise of doing their country a favour. Really you just want rid of EU migrants in your nice part of the country.

 

[dutchman]

Same as the Dems recapturing the House in the USA

Huh? It was an abysmal performance by the Democrats. The Republicans "recaptured" TWICE as many seats during Obama's first term in office and Trump is safely on course to win a second term as President.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Car parts plants to close on Brexit worries

Anyhow. Meanwhile in the real world.

Oh...so you are still scouring the www for negative stories then? But fair balance is either beyond you or it is an indication of a media bandwagon of anit-Brexit reporting. Why? Simply because all of you seem to have missed or ignored this...
"Lloyds to axe 6,000 jobs, create 8,000 new roles - Sky News" - Lloyds to axe 6,000 jobs, create 8,000 new roles: Sky News | Reuters


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[Astute]

I answered your questions and you ignore it to concentrate on your distraction. No surprise.

Answered what question?

You have twisted what I have said and tried to twist the truth. You have tried to change history. Correcting you is a full time job sometimes.

 

[Astute]

It was to highlight how EU membership has made Ireland more prosperous and reduced emigration. Unless you too believe that Irish emigration was only an issue during the Potato famine?

How about showing how high it was when stated?

 

[Astute]

Car parts plants to close on Brexit worries

Anyhow. Meanwhile in the real world.

Are you going to mention how worried the French are in the North of France? Are you going to mention the estimated 20,000 job losses in Germany in the car industry?

Of course not.

It could end up being shit all round if the EU keeps up to the threats made previously but have now gone quiet about.

 

[Astute]

You don’t get the comparison but then go on to spell it out impeccably. Ireland was very much the same in the period that Romania is being compared to it.

Was it?

Where is the evidence?

How long are you talking about?

 

[Grendel]

Huh? It was an abysmal performance by the Democrats. The Republicans "recaptured" TWICE as many seats during Obama's first term in office and Trump is safely on course to win a second term as President.

Ha ha anyone who thinks the democrats has a good night is an utter moron

 

[Astute]

Oh...so you are still scouring the www for negative stories then? But fair balance is either beyond you or it is an indication of a media bandwagon of anit-Brexit reporting. Why? Simply because all of you seem to have missed or ignored this...
"Lloyds to axe 6,000 jobs, create 8,000 new roles - Sky News" - Lloyds to axe 6,000 jobs, create 8,000 new roles: Sky News | Reuters


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Tony only understands the jobs axed.

 

[Astute]

Ha ha anyone who thinks the democrats has a good night is an utter moron

We have a few candidates for that title.

 

[Sick Boy]

More Irish people still emigrating than moving back

Tthe number of graduates leaving is rising, up 15 per cent since last year, which Fianna Fáil spokesperson on jobs Niall Collins said was an indication that “graduates are prioritising quality of life and cost of living when deciding where to work”.

“The annual action plan for jobs is failing to retain skilled Irish talent with decent jobs domestically. With rising living costs across all metrics and acute housing shortages, the country has severe competitiveness and policy challenges to overcome this deficit,” he said.

“Can our country really afford to be losing 500 graduates every week, many of whom are medical and nursing graduates who are desperately needed in the Irish health service?”

The number of 20-somethings living in Ireland overall has dropped dramatically since 2011, from 756,300 to 640,300, a fall of more than 15 per cent.

I agree it is far from fine now either it goes back to 2008- not sure the EU was to blame for the financial crash - some will try though.