The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (257 Viewers)

[Astute]

Tusk has said, according to your link, that the Poles should watch out that they don’t end up like the UK and accidentally out of the EU and up sxxt creek without a paddle. The Polish eurosceptics just lost local elections in the cities to more liberal parties. Same as the Dems recapturing the House in the USA and the Greens growing in strength in Germany. And a 20000 poll in the UK showing a trend towards remain. It seems people are beginning to react to the BS being hurled around about migrants, right wing parties trying to bend the rules back to the 30s, and people blaming all problems on the EU.

Now you’re on to Romanians. They’re poor, they come here to work ( Roma not included in that ). They send their money home to the old folk. The country was a ruin under Cercesceau and the corrupt successors. You blame the EU for giving them the chance to earn money. You want to send them back to unemployment and poverty under the guise of doing their country a favour. Really you just want rid of EU migrants in your nice part of the country.

Thought I would have a look at your posts to see what bile you are coming out with.

Tusk......no mention of him being quizzed on Monday about hundreds of millions of Polish residents money going missing in a pyramid scheme his son worked for. What a surprise.

Blame the EU for Romania? I suppose you didn't see each time where I said the money from the EU to Romania was wasted. And would you like to point out where I have said that it is the fault of the EU for Romanians going elsewhere to work.

Another fail by you. I speak about the problems in the EU. You make out I blame the EU for everything. No. I blame them when they are at fault 100%.

What I did say was they need reform ASAP. Something needs to be done in countries like Romania. But just giving them money isn't enough. It gets wasted or siphoned off by officials/criminals. Just like what happens in Italy and elsewhere. Maybe job creation of some sort that pays a proper wage. This would slowly bring in money into the economy. And keep an eye on it. Otherwise Romania will continue to get poorer and need more handouts.

 

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[Astute]

I agree it is far from fine now either it goes back to 2008- not sure the EU was to blame for the financial crash - some will try though.

So who is that?

The crash was mainly down to America to start with. Why not just say it how it is?

 

[Sick Boy]

How about showing how high it was when stated?

I still can't believe your contribution was "the potato famine"

 

[Sick Boy]

So who is that?

The crash was mainly down to America to start with. Why not just say it how it is?

?

I wasn't even talking to you, why do you assume it's all about you ffs

 

[martcov]

Huh? It was an abysmal performance by the Democrats. The Republicans "recaptured" TWICE as many seats during Obama's first term in office and Trump is safely on course to win a second term as President.

The economy is doing great despite trade wars and unemployment is lowest in decades. The GOP should have romped home. But. They lost the House. Only problem is that when the economy slows, he can now blame it on the Dems winning the House.

 

[Astute]

I still can't believe your contribution was "the potato famine"

It just showed how far out Tony was. And you agreed with him. But as you have since found out the last time Ireland had people leave as quick as Romania now was at the time of the potato famine. Yet you still try and take the piss although I was right.

 

[Astute]

?

I wasn't even talking to you, why do you assume it's all about you ffs

Do you only comment when spoken to?

Of course you don't. You frequently try to come to the help of Tony when he spins a story. Just like today.

So it is different rules on here for you and myself now?

Yeah OK.

 

[martcov]

Thought I would have a look at your posts to see what bile you are coming out with.

Tusk......no mention of him being quizzed on Monday about hundreds of millions of Polish residents money going missing in a pyramid scheme his son worked for. What a surprise.

Blame the EU for Romania? I suppose you didn't see each time where I said the money from the EU to Romania was wasted. And would you like to point out where I have said that it is the fault of the EU for Romanians going elsewhere to work.

Another fail by you. I speak about the problems in the EU. You make out I blame the EU for everything. No. I blame them when they are at fault 100%.

What I did say was they need reform ASAP. Something needs to be done in countries like Romania. But just giving them money isn't enough. It gets wasted or siphoned off by officials/criminals. Just like what happens in Italy and elsewhere. Maybe job creation of some sort that pays a proper wage. This would slowly bring in money into the economy. And keep an eye on it. Otherwise Romania will continue to get poorer and need more handouts.

Tusk‘s son worked briefly for an airline owned by the scammers. Not quite the same as working on a pyramid scam.

Tusk is not accused of running the scam, but his government not stopping it early enough.

Did you not wonder why the switched the microphone off when he gave his answers? No. Didn’t fit your agenda.

Here the crime suspects get interviewed on the BBC and invited to Question Time.

Romania has a corruption problem. That’s why there were demonstrations. I met the young mayor of the place I stay. Nice guy. Fxxked off with millions meant for the town. So, yes it needs regulations.

 

[martcov]

Ha ha anyone who thinks the democrats has a good night is an utter moron

Winning the House whilst the economy is doing better than for decades was not a good night? Thrashed the GOP with the popular vote.

Trump plays down losing the House and you jump on the spin.

 

[Sick Boy]

It just showed how far out Tony was. And you agreed with him. But as you have since found out the last time Ireland had people leave as quick as Romania now was at the time of the potato famine. Yet you still try and take the piss although I was right.

Yeah, whatever you say, you only ever speak "the truth".

 

[skybluetony176]

It just showed how far out Tony was. And you agreed with him. But as you have since found out the last time Ireland had people leave as quick as Romania now was at the time of the potato famine. Yet you still try and take the piss although I was right.

How far out I was? It’s you who was a century out. I knew what Sickboy was referring to the second I read his post. In fact it was me who told you. You’re still confusing now. Sickboy was clearly talking about economic migration not escaping a famine and even then you’re confusing speed with numbers.

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you only comment when spoken to?

Of course you don't. You frequently try to come to the help of Tony when he spins a story. Just like today.

So it is different rules on here for you and myself now?

Yeah OK.

It’s was Sickboy who made the point initially and it was me who backed him up. You can’t even get that right.

 

[Astute]

Yeah, whatever you say, you only ever speak "the truth".

I have backed up what I say with evidence. You and Tony have stated things as fact which is the opposite of what I have said but come out with no evidence.

Yet you make out you are being truthful.

 

[Astute]

How far out I was? It’s you who was a century out. I knew what Sickboy was referring to the second I read his post. In fact it was me who told you. You’re still confusing now. Sickboy was clearly talking about economic migration not escaping a famine and even then you’re confusing speed with numbers.

Century out? Show some fookin evidence then. You are finally starting to piss me off. All comments no evidence. Typical for this thread. Just like when you talk about Romania being much stronger after joining the EU. Yet you never mentioned this link either

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

 

[Astute]

It’s was Sickboy who made the point initially and it was me who backed him up. You can’t even get that right.

Backed up false claims. Yes you are right for once.

 

[skybluetony176]

Century out? Show some fookin evidence then. You are finally starting to piss me off. All comments no evidence. Typical for this thread. Just like when you talk about Romania being much stronger after joining the EU. Yet you never mentioned this link either

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

I don’t need evidence. I just need to let you talk and you’ll tie yourself in knots in no time. As you have today.

 

[Astute]

I don’t need evidence. I just need to let you talk and you’ll tie yourself in knots in no time. As you have today.

So in other words you don't need to come out with evidence as lies are good enough.

Do you really want to stay in the EU as you now admit to lying. Just like you did about not voting for UKIP until Grendel proved you to be lying from previous posts you made.

So I am to state your comments as lies when you show no evidence?

 

[Sick Boy]

Century out? Show some fookin evidence then. You are finally starting to piss me off. All comments no evidence. Typical for this thread. Just like when you talk about Romania being much stronger after joining the EU. Yet you never mentioned this link either

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

HAHA!! It was actually Ireland being stronger after 20 years of EU membership and the Romanian economy showing slow but positive signs.

Yet why change the habit of a lifetime and make stuff up to suit your pro-Brexit agenda before trying to claim you're remain. You've changed sides multiple times over the last 2.5 years, so I'm beginning to think you're massively confused by it all.

 

[skybluetony176]

So in other words you don't need to come out with evidence as lies are good enough.

Do you really want to stay in the EU as you now admit to lying. Just like you did about not voting for UKIP until Grendel proved you to be lying from previous posts you made.

So I am to state your comments as lies when you show no evidence?

It’s history. You’ve done the equivalent of me saying that there was once a king of England called Henry the eighth then you turning around and saying no there wasn’t. Fair enough you don’t know Irish history, you’ve probably never needed to know. I’ve read lots on it because of my family connections, mainly about the troubles but plenty of those books go back to the beginning of the IRA Michael Collins and indeed Éamonn De Valera. Hence I knew exactly what Sickboy was referring to and didn’t jump in with both feet and a bad case of potato famine Tourette’s like you.

I’ve given you all the pointers, you have enough information to find the relevant facts, I know they’re true and because they’re true you haven’t been able to show otherwise.

 

[Astute]

HAHA!! It was actually Ireland being stronger after 20 years of EU membership and the Romanian economy showing slow but positive signs.

Yet why change the habit of a lifetime and make stuff up to suit your pro-Brexit agenda before trying to claim you're remain. You've changed sides multiple times over the last 2.5 years, so I'm beginning to think you're massively confused by it all.

So where have I said that Ireland has become weaker and not stronger?

Then some wonder why this thread has been shit for so long. We have facts given out by some followed with no evidence. When someone gives evidence to show it is a false fact words are twisted. People are accused of saying what they haven't. It is a shitfest to hide the truth. A bit like the EU and British government. Feed everyone enough bullshit and eventually they might fall for it.

I backed up everything I said with evidence. But that wasn't enough for you and Tony. Even though you came out with none yourself.

Boosted Romania?

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

One more thing. Where have I said I am remain? It seems you struggle to understand what I have said. I am somewhere down the middle. I was well on the side of remain at the time if the referendum. But I could see the problems of being in the EU. Personally I am better off in the EU. But my kids? Will they be able to afford somewhere to live? Will they get treatment when needed?

The thing is my kids range from 33 to 8...9 this month. I have seen with my own eyes how harder it has got for the youth. My eldest who has no kids owns a lovely 4 bed house with games room and such. But as the kids had their turn of flying the nest they have had it harder. I am now looking for a property that my younger kids can share when they are older. I am worried for their futures.

When you are older and have grown up kids you will understand. Your kids don't stop being your kids when they reach 18. You still worry about them. And I am a bit worried for their futures. But in 9 years I am retiring and off on my travels. I deserve it as I will have been bringing up kids for over 40 years. But yes I have seen a massive change. Some caused by EU rules. Some caused by inept UK governments. And this is why I am borderline on staying in the EU or leaving it. This is why I can look at it both ways. I don't look for only the good or bad on leaving. Both has good and bad parts. Both has good and bad for the future. But you won't understand. You are remain at whatever cost.

 

[Astute]

It’s history. You’ve done the equivalent of me saying that there was once a king of England called Henry the eighth then you turning around and saying no there wasn’t. Fair enough you don’t know Irish history, you’ve probably never needed to know. I’ve read lots on it because of my family connections, mainly about the troubles but plenty of those books go back to the beginning of the IRA Michael Collins and indeed Éamonn De Valera. Hence I knew exactly what Sickboy was referring to and didn’t jump in with both feet and a bad case of potato famine Tourette’s like you.

I’ve given you all the pointers, you have enough information to find the relevant facts, I know they’re true and because they’re true you haven’t been able to show otherwise.

Pointers but no facts. Well done.

I could sit here all day giving pointers on everything good about leaving the EU and give pointers about how strong we will be after leaving the EU. But I couldn't give evidence. Does that mean I would be right?

Of course not. Evidence boy, evidence.

Yesterday I gave pointers on Tusk and the pyramid scheme that his son worked for while he ran Poland. Neither of you wanted to discuss the matter. But if it was anyone with anything to do with Brexit and not a top job with the EU you would have been all over it.

But does that make him guilty of anything? No it doesn't. I haven't said he is guilty of anything. All we have is something that sounds dodgy.

And there we go. Yet another time we can see the bias of some and me treating everyone the same. But I expect my words to be twisted as usual. It is getting more pathetic every day.

 

[martcov]

Pointers but no facts. Well done.

I could sit here all day giving pointers on everything good about leaving the EU and give pointers about how strong we will be after leaving the EU. But I couldn't give evidence. Does that mean I would be right?

Of course not. Evidence boy, evidence.

Yesterday I gave pointers on Tusk and the pyramid scheme that his son worked for while he ran Poland. Neither of you wanted to discuss the matter. But if it was anyone with anything to do with Brexit and not a top job with the EU you would have been all over it.

But does that make him guilty of anything? No it doesn't. I haven't said he is guilty of anything. All we have is something that sounds dodgy.

And there we go. Yet another time we can see the bias of some and me treating everyone the same. But I expect my words to be twisted as usual. It is getting more pathetic every day.

More facts about wage and GDP growth in Romania. Analysis. Beyond GDP: How the Romanian economy gained EUR 18 bln in 2017 and who saw the extra money - Business Review

 

[Astute]

More facts about wage and GDP growth in Romania. Analysis. Beyond GDP: How the Romanian economy gained EUR 18 bln in 2017 and who saw the extra money - Business Review

Did you get past the headline? Try the first paragraph.

Romania’s gross domestic product (GDP) grew by EUR 18 billion last year versus 2016, an impressive result for the second poorest European Union member state. However, almost all the extra money was spent straight away on consumer goods and services and little was invested in development. Experts warn that Romania’s economic picture is concealing three major risks.

They need investment to improve. Agriculture was the main boost. But most of the money was spent and not invested. So after a good year in 2017 they are in the same place as before.

 

[martcov]

Did you get past the headline? Try the first paragraph.

Romania’s gross domestic product (GDP) grew by EUR 18 billion last year versus 2016, an impressive result for the second poorest European Union member state. However, almost all the extra money was spent straight away on consumer goods and services and little was invested in development. Experts warn that Romania’s economic picture is concealing three major risks.

They need investment to improve. Agriculture was the main boost. But most of the money was spent and not invested. So after a good year in 2017 they are in the same place as before.

No they are not. Before the EU they were a ruin. They are not in the same place, the risk is that growth will slow after a good year because they haven’t invested enough e.g. in infrastructure. They have also reduced investment in tourism promotion because their EU starter funds have expired or been severely reduced. Maybe in other sectors too. Slower growth after high growth is not being stuck in the same place and it is not the catastrophic situation you wish it to be. The good news is that wages have been rising at a high rate. The growth rate is slowing in the U.K. because of Brexit. Then we get the comment... ah, but from a high level. Now, because it suits, in Romania‘s situation they are back at the same place.

 

[Sick Boy]

So where have I said that Ireland has become weaker and not stronger?

Then some wonder why this thread has been shit for so long. We have facts given out by some followed with no evidence. When someone gives evidence to show it is a false fact words are twisted. People are accused of saying what they haven't. It is a shitfest to hide the truth. A bit like the EU and British government. Feed everyone enough bullshit and eventually they might fall for it.

I backed up everything I said with evidence. But that wasn't enough for you and Tony. Even though you came out with none yourself.

Boosted Romania?

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

One more thing. Where have I said I am remain? It seems you struggle to understand what I have said. I am somewhere down the middle. I was well on the side of remain at the time if the referendum. But I could see the problems of being in the EU. Personally I am better off in the EU. But my kids? Will they be able to afford somewhere to live? Will they get treatment when needed?

The thing is my kids range from 33 to 8...9 this month. I have seen with my own eyes how harder it has got for the youth. My eldest who has no kids owns a lovely 4 bed house with games room and such. But as the kids had their turn of flying the nest they have had it harder. I am now looking for a property that my younger kids can share when they are older. I am worried for their futures.

When you are older and have grown up kids you will understand. Your kids don't stop being your kids when they reach 18. You still worry about them. And I am a bit worried for their futures. But in 9 years I am retiring and off on my travels. I deserve it as I will have been bringing up kids for over 40 years. But yes I have seen a massive change. Some caused by EU rules. Some caused by inept UK governments. And this is why I am borderline on staying in the EU or leaving it. This is why I can look at it both ways. I don't look for only the good or bad on leaving. Both has good and bad parts. Both has good and bad for the future. But you won't understand. You are remain at whatever cost.

Only the other day you were trying to portray yourself as not wanting to leave the EU and now you are 'in the middle'. You've even described yourself as being 'remain' at times.

Remain at whatever cost? I'm not the one who is going to have my rights taken away from me mate. Your children will do though.

It seems like the EU was good enough for your sister to go to and setup a business. At least she was given the chance to, something your children won't get.

The level of migrants coming into the country is likely to remain similar to what it is now, to be people at the top it has never been about that but it's been used to whip people up.

There were issues with the country that needed fixing before it got all-consumed by Brexit.

 

[Astute]

Only the other day you were trying to portray yourself as not wanting to leave the EU and now you are 'in the middle'. You've even described yourself as being 'remain' at times.

Remain at whatever cost? I'm not the one who is going to have my rights taken away from me mate. Your children will do though.

It seems like the EU was good enough for your sister to go to and setup a business. At least she was given the chance to, something your children won't get.

The level of migrants coming into the country is likely to remain similar to what it is now, to be people at the top it has never been about that but it's been used to whip people up.

There were issues with the country that needed fixing before it got all-consumed by Brexit.

Have I said there were not issues? For many years we have had a Tory government or a Labour government styled on the Tories. It has been set up for the rich.

Yes you are right. I think we would be better off staying in the EU. You read right. I have said countless times that I think I would be better off staying in the EU. But I worry for the future of my children. Not enough money is being invested in what is needed. Not enough homes. Not enough on infrastructure projects that is needed. But untold billions are being wasted so a train can run at speed through the country. Which part of this don't you understand?

What is needed is reform of the EU. But it isn't happening. Their grip is getting stronger. People are starting to revolt against EU principles. The right wing is on the way up. This is disturbing to me. But some on here don't see it as a problem.

Greece must do this, Italy must do that, Hungary must do this, Spain must do that, Romania must do this, Poland must do that....... Unity is disappearing. This is also a big concern. The Euro being too strong for most countries in it is also a concern. Something will eventually have to give. Poland talking their way out of the EU? The list will go on.

Do I want us to be a part of the EU? In the main yes. Would I want us to be a part of the EU if it goes tits up? The chance isn't big. But there is a chance of it happening. It could cause a global catastrophe if it happens. Worrying times. Yet I am not supposed to consider the bad.

The future is uncertain whichever direction we go in. There is not a definite best direction to go in. This is why even now I am undecided. And no dictation will make me decide any easier.

 

[Sick Boy]

Have I said there were not issues? For many years we have had a Tory government or a Labour government styled on the Tories. It has been set up for the rich.

Yes you are right. I think we would be better off staying in the EU. You read right. I have said countless times that I think I would be better off staying in the EU. But I worry for the future of my children. Not enough money is being invested in what is needed. Not enough homes. Not enough on infrastructure projects that is needed. But untold billions are being wasted so a train can run at speed through the country. Which part of this don't you understand?

What is needed is reform of the EU. But it isn't happening. Their grip is getting stronger. People are starting to revolt against EU principles. The right wing is on the way up. This is disturbing to me. But some on here don't see it as a problem.

Greece must do this, Italy must do that, Hungary must do this, Spain must do that, Romania must do this, Poland must do that....... Unity is disappearing. This is also a big concern. The Euro being too strong for most countries in it is also a concern. Something will eventually have to give. Poland talking their way out of the EU? The list will go on.

Do I want us to be a part of the EU? In the main yes. Would I want us to be a part of the EU if it goes tits up? The chance isn't big. But there is a chance of it happening. It could cause a global catastrophe if it happens. Worrying times. Yet I am not supposed to consider the bad.

The future is uncertain whichever direction we go in. There is not a definite best direction to go in. This is why even now I am undecided. And no dictation will make me decide any easier.

HS2 or whatever it's called is a Londoncentric waste of time and nothing to do with the EU. One positive of leaving the EU is that no one is going to be able to use it as an excuse for the country's failings, even though I'm sure it will be tried for a decade or so yet.

As I said before, in the long-run there's going to be a lot of disappointed people when they realise the government doesn't give a shit about infastructure and the needs of ordinary people.

 

[martcov]

Have I said there were not issues? For many years we have had a Tory government or a Labour government styled on the Tories. It has been set up for the rich.

Yes you are right. I think we would be better off staying in the EU. You read right. I have said countless times that I think I would be better off staying in the EU. But I worry for the future of my children. Not enough money is being invested in what is needed. Not enough homes. Not enough on infrastructure projects that is needed. But untold billions are being wasted so a train can run at speed through the country. Which part of this don't you understand?

What is needed is reform of the EU. But it isn't happening. Their grip is getting stronger. People are starting to revolt against EU principles. The right wing is on the way up. This is disturbing to me. But some on here don't see it as a problem.

Greece must do this, Italy must do that, Hungary must do this, Spain must do that, Romania must do this, Poland must do that....... Unity is disappearing. This is also a big concern. The Euro being too strong for most countries in it is also a concern. Something will eventually have to give. Poland talking their way out of the EU? The list will go on.

Do I want us to be a part of the EU? In the main yes. Would I want us to be a part of the EU if it goes tits up? The chance isn't big. But there is a chance of it happening. It could cause a global catastrophe if it happens. Worrying times. Yet I am not supposed to consider the bad.

The future is uncertain whichever direction we go in. There is not a definite best direction to go in. This is why even now I am undecided. And no dictation will make me decide any easier.

Poland, or rather their government, pulled a stroke and put their most experienced judges in early retirement to replace them with ones that follow the government’s line. That makes the judiciary no longe independent and is against EU membership rules. The EU is telling them to stick to the rules. Are you against that? Please don’t start about Selmayr in your answer.

The other examples are the day to day problems in an organisation of 500 million people. They won’t stop if the EU was disbanded. They would end where they always ended before in European history before the EU. International disputes. Which why there are agreed rules.

 

[Astute]

HS2 or whatever it's called is a Londoncentric waste of time and nothing to do with the EU. One positive of leaving the EU is that no one is going to be able to use it as an excuse for the country's failings, even though I'm sure it will be tried for a decade or so yet.

As I said before, in the long-run there's going to be a lot of disappointed people when they realise the government doesn't give a shit about infastructure and the needs of ordinary people.

Who mentioned the EU had anything to do with HS2? I certainly didn't.

But the rest of what you have said is what I have said for ages. We can't trust any UK government. They promise everything and deliver nothing unless it is a benefit to the rich. Even Labour did the same the last time they were in. National debt against GDP is going down. But so is quality of life. I am doing OK but it doesn't mean that I am happy with the situation. I fear for my kids futures whatever happens.

 

[clint van damme]

If Dominic Raabs speech from the tech event he attended last night doesn't set alarm bells ringing in even the most committed Brexiteer then the games up and the country is fucked.

 

[Sick Boy]

If Dominic Raabs speech from the tech event he attended last night doesn't set alarm bells ringing in even the most committed Brexiteer then the games up and the country is fucked.

I still can't believe anyone still gives Davis any credibility either, this was the Brexit Minister who was under the impression that the UK could do individual trade deals with each EU country.

Yet he was recently being touted as an interim leader to see the UK through Brexit.

 

[Nick]

This thread.

 

[Sick Boy]

This thread.

Leave us be, we just enjoy a row

 

[chiefdave]

If Dominic Raabs speech from the tech event he attended last night doesn't set alarm bells ringing in even the most committed Brexiteer then the games up and the country is fucked.

Don't know what everyone is worried about. Now that he's realised we're an island and dependent on the Dover - Calais route it will be full steam ahead from here.

 

[dutchman]

'A Farage in every country': Barnier warns of existential threat to EU

The European Union’s Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has called on pro-EU forces to defend the fragile union from populism, saying there is now “a Farage in every country”.

In a speech at the conference of the powerful centre-right European People’s party (EPP), Barnier did not go into details of the deadlocked Brexit negotiations, but warned the EU project was “under threat”.

“We will have to fight against those who want to demolish Europe with their fear, their populist deceit,” he told more than 700 EPP delegates in Helsinki, before naming the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage.

Farage said: “I thank Mr Barnier for the compliment.” :emoji_laughing: