The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (26 Viewers)

[SIR ERNIE]

The EU is a Union if sovereign nations not a foreign body. Voluntarily. What sovereignty has been taken... as opposed to voluntarily pooled? There is none. We have agreed to every treaty. What are you on about?

Oh dear. Verhofstadt loses his temper...the truth from his own mouth.


Scary echoes from the past.

 

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[Sick Boy]

Well if that’s the case then if there’s an election Vince “Mr Euro” Cable will sweep power as Jeremy Corbyn wants a far harder Brexit than Johnson and Gove. As they believe in remaining they’ll be demanding the Blair creature back to lead labour

Who is going to demand Blair returns? There's plenty of pro-EU labour politicians than Blair.

I genuinely don't know who'd I'd vote for out of the power lot, for the first time in my life I probably wouldn't even bother, which is a very sad state of affairs as I've alway believed everyone should get out and vote.

 

[dutchman]

The EU is a Union if sovereign nations not a foreign body. Voluntarily.

So was the United States of America, until some of them decided to leave!

 

[clint van damme]

The remain voters don't a shite about anyone else or the country but themselves........Horrible little greedy bastards.

All remainers feel the same do they?

 

[clint van damme]

According to Toby Young on Question Time it's the remainers fault that Brexit ha not been a success so far, depressingly it's always going to be someone else's fault.

If it wasn't for outside interference that oxygen thief would never have got a degree the paedo c**t.

 

[Macca]

I was gobsmacked today to learn that a good pal of mine who couldn't be any more a stereotype liberal if he tried was a leave voter. Just goes to show how blindly black and white this argument has become. What actually surprised me was his sub conscious apology before he revealed how he had voted. Said a lot that he was worried about how he would be viewed in the bullying culture of this debate

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Man made climate change probably began the day man discovered how to make fire.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Meaningless comment

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was gobsmacked today to learn that a good pal of mine who couldn't be any more a stereotype liberal if he tried was a leave voter. Just goes to show how blindly black and white this argument has become. What actually surprised me was his sub conscious apology before he revealed how he had voted. Said a lot that he was worried about how he would be viewed in the bullying culture of this debate

And the Prime Minister has been called a traitor for not going far enough

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What objective evidence? There is none, you are talking about predictions & opinions and there are always doomsayers out there.
There is one common thread with predictions, they are nearly always wrong.

The recessions in the 70's and 80's were worse

UK recessions since 1945: how they compare

Those who bought a house and managed to keep paying when mortgage rates went up to about 15%........Yes 15% and not record low levels like now and with mass unemployment.

Older generations had it easier? Would you like to explain how you came to this point? The biggest difference is pensions. You can say thanks to Gordon Brown for the demise of the final salary pensions.

And how do you blame the certain generations you are having another dig at for global warming? What information did they ignore? Look at how many cars were on the road then and now. Look at how many people flew then and now. How about the catastrophic pollution which is made in the name of battery and wind power production. Fracking isn't that good either.

When I was a kid double glazing and central heating was new. Hardly anyone had it. You had to wrap up inside your house when the weather got bad. Shopping cost more as there wasn't an over supply of supermarkets like there is now. A lot more if income went on food. Just like it did if you could afford to run a car. And they were not reliable either. University was mainly for the rich and well off only.

I have constantly said that I am worried for the youth of today. But don't try to make out that all generations before had it easy because they didn't. I had to work 6 or 7 days a week and study at the same time. And that was working at least 12 hours a day. No holiday pay.

Have you asked the older generations how hard life was? Yes it got better over the years. But it was easy because life was so hard.

There never used to be a minimum wage. There were not top ups like there is now. If you needed more money you had to work more hours if you could get them. But a lot if the time you were lucky to have a job.

Erm

Five charts show why millennials are worse off than their parents | Financial Times

Millennials £2,700,000,000,000 worse off because of previous generation's decisions | Metro News

Millennials will not be worse off than the Baby Boomers in retirement...But only if they get on the housing ladder

Revealed: the 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income

I never said previous generations had it easy, just that there used to be a trend of them getting it easier than the ones before. Mine is the first to buck the trend in a multitude of ways. We will likely be the first generation to have parts of the planet made uninhabitable by climate change. It will make the Syrian refugee crisis look like a bus queue. Scientists have been presenting the evidence regarding man-made climate change for decades and aside from a few band-aid treaties they have largely been ignored. Countries invested more in pointless wars and financial services as opposed to alternative fuels. Donald Trump thinks it's a hoax and wants to keep pumping shit into the atmosphere.



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[Grendel]

Who is going to demand Blair returns? There's plenty of pro-EU labour politicians than Blair.

I genuinely don't know who'd I'd vote for out of the power lot, for the first time in my life I probably wouldn't even bother, which is a very sad state of affairs as I've alway believed everyone should get out and vote.

You’ve ignored the point that the current labour leader favours leaving and is opposed to freedom of movement. No remainder will vote for him surely?

 

[Macca]

And the Prime Minister has been called a traitor for not going far enough

Hey I agree, my point is that logical debate has gone out of the window. It's ok for someone to believe in Europe without being labelled a snowflake liberal and it's ok to believe in the ability of the UK to go it alone without being labelled a right wing nazi

 

[Macca]

Personally I believe the country can and will thrive in either scenario

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hey I agree, my point is that logical debate has gone out of the window. It's ok for someone to believe in Europe without being labelled a snowflake liberal and it's ok to believe in the ability of the UK to go it alone without being labelled a right wing nazi

Yeah. I will just be interested to see who is the next to blame for the country being shit when we leave.

 

[Astute]

This is it...the younger generation are the first to be worse off then the one before apparently. What is the measure though? Money probably.
There is the problem...people with lots of money want somebody to address the younger generation's reduced wealth...because that means their own growth in wealth is impacted.

Quailty of life is a better measure. I suspect all things considered - their QoL is slightly better than the previous generation.

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Apparently is the word.

 

[Astute]

Then on the night of the vote Farage said that if Remain were to win 52-48, then the 'fight' would carry on as it wouldn't have been clear enough. Funnily enough, he went quiet about it once Leave won.

Did you ever take any notice of Farage?

Should there be another referendum because of something Farage said?

 

[Astute]

Erm

Five charts show why millennials are worse off than their parents | Financial Times

Millennials £2,700,000,000,000 worse off because of previous generation's decisions | Metro News

Millennials will not be worse off than the Baby Boomers in retirement...But only if they get on the housing ladder

Revealed: the 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income

I never said previous generations had it easy, just that there used to be a trend of them getting it easier than the ones before. Mine is the first to buck the trend in a multitude of ways. We will likely be the first generation to have parts of the planet made uninhabitable by climate change. It will make the Syrian refugee crisis look like a bus queue. Scientists have been presenting the evidence regarding man-made climate change for decades and aside from a few band-aid treaties they have largely been ignored. Countries invested more in pointless wars and financial services as opposed to alternative fuels. Donald Trump thinks it's a hoax and wants to keep pumping shit into the atmosphere.



​

Have you considered what they say? Gordon Brown cost us final salary pensions. The housing crisis has been made worse by anyone with an EU passport being able to live here. But those who suffer the most from it want to keep the borders open. Work that one out.

 

[martcov]

Have you considered what they say? Gordon Brown cost us final salary pensions. The housing crisis has been made worse by anyone with an EU passport being able to live here. But those who suffer the most from it want to keep the borders open. Work that one out.

Maybe you’re wrong and they don’t see losing their right to live and work anywhere in Europe as solving the housing crisis.

 

[martcov]

Personally I believe the country can and will thrive in either scenario

Believe. Sounds like religion.

 

[martcov]

Oh dear. Verhofstadt loses his temper...the truth from his own mouth.


Scary echoes from the past.

Really? Europe sticking together as opposed to warring with each other is scary? Weird.

 

[martcov]

And the leavers genuinely believe that Brexit would have a positive effect on the country........We could go on and on and on.

Except they are more into slagging the EU off as being either communist or fascist and cannot point to known benefits of leaving. They are really angry that people are not impressed with the mess they created and that many people want to pull the plug on the whole thing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Believe. Sounds like religion.

More of a cult than a religion.

 

[martcov]

So was the United States of America, until some of them decided to leave!

How did that end? Most powerful and richest nation on earth? Although deeply flawed by social injustice of course.

 

[Macca]

Believe. Sounds like religion.

Yep only a true fanatic or idiot would speak of any future event as fact

 

[Macca]

Yeah. I will just be interested to see who is the next to blame for the country being shit when we leave.

This country is far from shit. People will travel miles and risk life and limb to be here. A good look around the world should show how lucky we are

 

[oucho]

It doesn't matter that Vote Leave said, the government isnti obliged to deliver it's version of Leave. Nor does it matter what Farage, Toby Young etc said. Fact is the 2016 vote was advertised as fhe final decision and that the government would enact the result either way.

Now the people who wanted to remain and didn't want a referendum in the first place won't accept the result of the referendum but want another referendum as they'd accept the result of that. It all sounds a bit Donald Trump to me: "I'll accept the result....if I win!"

 

[clint van damme]

It doesn't matter that Vote Leave said, the government isnti obliged to deliver it's version of Leave. Nor does it matter what Farage, Toby Young etc said. Fact is the 2016 vote was advertised as fhe final decision and that the government would enact the result either way.

Now the people who wanted to remain and didn't want a referendum in the first place won't accept the result of the referendum but want another referendum as they'd accept the result of that. It all sounds a bit Donald Trump to me: "I'll accept the result....if I win!"

another sweeping generalisation.

 

[Sick Boy]

It doesn't matter that Vote Leave said, the government isnti obliged to deliver it's version of Leave. Nor
does it matter what Farage, Toby Young etc said. Fact is the 2016 vote was advertised as fhe final decision and that the government would enact the result either way.

Now the people who wanted to remain and didn't want a referendum in the first place won't accept the result of the referendum but want another referendum as they'd accept the result of that. It all sounds a bit Donald Trump to me: "I'll accept the result....if I win!"

Nice generalisation there. I've said on here I'd go with the EEA as a compromise between both sides, it would honour the vote of leaving the EU. Even prominent Leavers said no one was talking about taking us out of the SM before the vote.

 

[Sick Boy]

Did you ever take any notice of Farage?

Should there be another referendum because of something Farage said?

I didn't but many people did and still do, sadly.

 

[martcov]

It doesn't matter that Vote Leave said, the government isnti obliged to deliver it's version of Leave. Nor does it matter what Farage, Toby Young etc said. Fact is the 2016 vote was advertised as fhe final decision and that the government would enact the result either way.

Now the people who wanted to remain and didn't want a referendum in the first place won't accept the result of the referendum but want another referendum as they'd accept the result of that. It all sounds a bit Donald Trump to me: "I'll accept the result....if I win!"

Well, funny you should mention Trump...

New Evidence Emerges of Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica’s Role in Brexit

 

[Sick Boy]

Have you considered what they say? Gordon Brown cost us final salary pensions. The housing crisis has been made worse by anyone with an EU passport being able to live here. But those who suffer the most from it want to keep the borders open. Work that one out.

Even the UN has pointed the finger at the current government for the countries rising child poverty and inequality within society, yet you still do their dirty work and blame working, tax paying migrants.

 

[martcov]

Yep only a true fanatic or idiot would speak of any future event as fact

That’s true, which why leaving is turning out differently to as it was sold.

 

[Sick Boy]

You’ve ignored the point that the current labour leader favours leaving and is opposed to freedom of movement. No remainder will vote for him surely?

As we discussed before, I think this will eventually be his downfall but I still can't believe how many think he is pro-Remain. I will never vote for the party again while he is in charge.

 

[martcov]

This country is far from shit. People will travel miles and risk life and limb to be here. A good look around the world should show how lucky we are

True. But not just the UK. Many countries in the EU are dealing with a refugee crisis. Strange when people on here say that the EU is evil.

 

[martcov]

As we discussed before, I think this will eventually be his downfall but I still can't believe how many think he is pro-Remain. I will never vote for the party again while he is in charge.

This is a democracy deficit with FPTP voting. In a PR Voting country you would have parties with alternative programs. In the UK you have the two main parties backing some form of Brexit in their manifestos. There is no opposition party to Brexit ( apart from Libs, but they have little chance of any representation under FPTP). Remainers could only choose between a milder form of leaving or a harder Brexit , but not remaining.

 

[dutchman]

That’s true, which why leaving is turning out differently to as it was sold.

You mean like every general election result there has ever been?