The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (65 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Us having a referendum was a voting bribe by Cameron. He said if the Tories won the next GE we would get a referendum on if to remain or leave the EU. The Tories got elected. The rest is history.

I think he wasn't expecting to win a majority, so probably assumed that the policy would have been taken out by the Lib-Dems.

 

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[Astute]

HAHA! Open borders in Europe, from Africa? Believe it or not but there are no open borders for African countries into the EU, these people are trying to enter the country illegally, so they don't respect the borders and they would continue to land there whether the EU existed or not. I have also said multiple times that the EU should reform and these people should be distributed around the EU, including the UK.

You constantly try and blame the EU for just about everything, the impact of the mafia and organised crime has had a far greater impact than Italy on the EU, yet you just tried to make out that the EU is massively responsible. The north is also incredibly wealthy, btw.

Utter bollocks from SB as usual.....Or would you like to point out where I have said open borders from Africa.


Or are we going to have another day where I have to explain every word if every sentence so you can't twist what I say?

Here we go again.

Most don't want to live in Italy. They want to go to rich countries. Germany, the UK or similar. The EU having open borders meant they only had to get into any EU country to be able to move more freely. No showing legal documents at each border. So of course it made it more appealing to get into the easiest countries to start the journey.

But somehow you will try to deny this.

 

[clint van damme]

Not the way I see it at all.

Us having a referendum was a voting bribe by Cameron. He said if the Tories won the next GE we would get a referendum on if to remain or leave the EU. The Tories got elected. The rest is history.

and that was because he was pandering to the right of his party, and the civil war has continued since.

 

[Astute]

I think he wasn't expecting to win a majority, so probably assumed that the policy would have been taken out by the Lib-Dems.

He wasn't expecting to win a majority and the Lib Dems had already said they wouldn't join the Tories again. It decimated their party and many would never vote for them again. My wife is one of those. So he needed a vote winner. And we would never vote to leave the EU, would we..........

 

[Sick Boy]

Utter bollocks from SB as usual.....Or would you like to point out where I have said open borders from Africa.


Or are we going to have another day where I have to explain every word if every sentence so you can't twist what I say?

Here we go again.

Most don't want to live in Italy. They want to go to rich countries. Germany, the UK or similar. The EU having open borders meant they only had to get into any EU country to be able to move more freely. No showing legal documents at each border. So of course it made it more appealing to get into the easiest countries to start the journey.

But somehow you will try to deny this.

Yeah because countries don't turn them back, do they? Nor do they stop migrants to ask them for ID documents. I must have missed the open borders between France and the UK as well.

Italy brands France a 'disgrace' after police dump migrants across border | Reuters

Migrants not welcome in Menton as French force them back to Italy

Armed French officers spark row with Italy

 

[Astute]

and that was because he was pandering to the right of his party, and the civil war has continued since.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Maybe it was a bit of both. We will never know for sure. But there is more of a chance it was for it being a vote winner than to keep some happy that didn't share his views. Because most Tories share his views.

 

[Astute]

Yeah because countries don't turn them back, do they? Nor do they stop migrants to ask them for ID documents.

Italy brands France a 'disgrace' after police dump migrants across border | Reuters

Migrants not welcome in Menton as French force them back to Italy

Has this always happened or is it a more recent thing though?

Just the same as when in France and risking their lives to get to the UK. Did they reach France first?

 

[Sick Boy]

Has this always happened or is it a more recent thing though?

Just the same as when in France and risking their lives to get to the UK. Did they reach France first?

France is the 3rd highest country in terms of people making asylum claims to it. It does also take in people voluntarily, it's not as though other countries don't take in any of the arrivals at all.

I think it has 'beefed up' since the Syrian issues.

 

[martcov]

So the monumental debt owed by Italy is down to the mafia and corruption?

No. Some is, but the most isn’t. Italian government spending is the cause.

 

[clint van damme]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Maybe it was a bit of both. We will never know for sure. But there is more of a chance it was for it being a vote winner than to keep some happy that didn't share his views. Because most Tories share his views.

A bit of both could be right but the whole process has been directionless since the referendum.

 

[martcov]

Has this always happened or is it a more recent thing though?

Just the same as when in France and risking their lives to get to the UK. Did they reach France first?

What do you think about the UN‘s migration pact? Maybe it will regulate migration. It is to be signed next week.

 

[Astute]

A bit of both could be right but the whole process has been directionless since the referendum.

We have a leader that is doing the opposite of what she really wants to do. We have an opposition leader that says he wants what he doesn't want. And we have the EU that doesn't want us to leave.

Then some wonder why it has become a farce.

It wouldn't surprise me if it has been designed to happen this way and we end up remaining in the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

No. Some is, but the most isn’t. Italian government spending is the cause.

Tax evasion is also rife across society.

 

[martcov]

Tax evasion is also rife across society.

Right wing parties don’t seem to have that in their populist statements. Always about people scrounging and defrauding the benefits system of thousands, but seldom about people stashing large amounts of non taxed money in tax havens. UKIP abstained from votes in the EU Parliament to tighten up on tax evasion.

 

[Ashdown]

What do you think about the UN‘s migration pact? Maybe it will regulate migration. It is to be signed next week.

Tell me about it, I'd like to know more ?!

 

[Ashdown]

Reproduction has slowed down in many advanced wealthier countries. Mankinds population explosion worldwide is only going to continue to destroy the planet and everything else on it. Population has to be curbed and drop back to sustainable levels. Whether we like it or not we are all contributing to our own eventual downfall. If numbers reduce CO2 production etc reduces and the other species of Animal and fauna can co-exist. It's no good to anyone that people are still having 6+ kids in some nations and then many of these want to migrate to areas of the world that are slowly getting a grip on humanities relentless growth, the ability to do that prevents a natural balance.

 

[clint van damme]

Reproduction has slowed down in many advanced wealthier countries. Mankinds population explosion worldwide is only going to continue to destroy the planet and everything else on it. Population has to be curbed and drop back to sustainable levels. Whether we like it or not we are all contributing to our own eventual downfall. If numbers reduce CO2 production etc reduces and the other species of Animal and fauna can co-exist. It's no good to anyone that people are still having 6+ kids in some nations and then many of these want to migrate to areas of the world that are slowly getting a grip on humanities relentless growth, the ability to do that prevents a natural balance.

I read somewhere that the carbon footprint of a western child, (and I can't remember the exact figure), but it was something like 9 times that of a child in the poorest African countries so yes the western population explosion has slowed but we're still the biggest culprits when it comes to producing CO2.
And I'm of the opinion that we won't destroy the planet, we'll destroy ourselves and the planet will carry on quite happily without us.

 

[Sick Boy]

I read somewhere that the carbon footprint of a western child, (and I can't remember the exact figure), but it was something like 9 times that of a child in the poorest African countries so yes the western population explosion has slowed but we're still the biggest culprits when it comes to producing CO2.
And I'm of the opinion that we won't destroy the planet, we'll destroy ourselves and the planet will carry on quite happily without us.

Yeah you’re probably right, humans have caused far more destruction and misery on this planet compared to any other. We probably don’t deserve it...this is getting a bit deep

 

[skybluetony176]

I read somewhere that the carbon footprint of a western child, (and I can't remember the exact figure), but it was something like 9 times that of a child in the poorest African countries so yes the western population explosion has slowed but we're still the biggest culprits when it comes to producing CO2.
And I'm of the opinion that we won't destroy the planet, we'll destroy ourselves and the planet will carry on quite happily without us.

I recall reading something similar and like you don’t recall the exact figures but it was something like 20% of the world population is responsible for 80% of the worlds pollution. The 20% being the population of the so called developed world.

 

[martcov]

Reproduction has slowed down in many advanced wealthier countries. Mankinds population explosion worldwide is only going to continue to destroy the planet and everything else on it. Population has to be curbed and drop back to sustainable levels. Whether we like it or not we are all contributing to our own eventual downfall. If numbers reduce CO2 production etc reduces and the other species of Animal and fauna can co-exist. It's no good to anyone that people are still having 6+ kids in some nations and then many of these want to migrate to areas of the world that are slowly getting a grip on humanities relentless growth, the ability to do that prevents a natural balance.

I don’t think we are getting a grip. We just have birth control and use it to have less children, but a more economically productive life. There is no plan. We have ended up with a disproportionate number of older people. Other countries have a disproportionate number of young population because they are improving health care in the first 5 years and the infant survival rate is growing. We have little control over these developments, but some sort of agreement is needed on how to deal with migration. It can be of great benefit, but there should at least be some steering. One of the main points from the UN is that countries bind themselves voluntarily to fact based discussions on the subject. As we have seen on here facts seem to be twisted and people go off on deflections.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What do you think about the UN‘s migration pact? Maybe it will regulate migration. It is to be signed next week.

It's dangerous.

 

[Grendel]

No you’re right, decades and decades of organised crime that generates estimates of €100bn of profit for the groups and deep, deep corruption has had minimal effect on the performance of the country and its debt.

To try and place the blame for the country’s problems at the feet of the EU and deflecting away from how organised crime has ruined the country show just how extreme your position is

In all polls of it’s population the EU popularity Italy has the lowest rating - even lower then ours.

 

[martcov]

Tell me about it, I'd like to know more ?!

suggest you google it. make your own mind up.

 

[Ashdown]

I read somewhere that the carbon footprint of a western child, (and I can't remember the exact figure), but it was something like 9 times that of a child in the poorest African countries so yes the western population explosion has slowed but we're still the biggest culprits when it comes to producing CO2.
And I'm of the opinion that we won't destroy the planet, we'll destroy ourselves and the planet will carry on quite happily without us.

Not disputing who the culprits have have been but two wrongs don't make a right and a general migration north from much of Africa where breeding levels are often very high isn't going to solve things. There needs to be financial incentive to stay put and education and medical advances to aid contraception and infant mortality so parents can be more confident their youngsters will survive.

 

[Sick Boy]

In all polls of it’s population the EU popularity Italy has the lowest rating - even lower then ours.

I thought that you were recently dismissive of polls?

I haven’t mentioned EU approval, just that governments and organised crime have majorly impacted the country. In my experience Italians tend to be overly apologetic for their country and tend to blame mafia and governments. The mafia profits make up around 8% of Italy’s GDP.

There is an anti-German sentiment amongst quite a few though

Salvini supporters will no doubt blame the south as well.

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought that you were recently dismissive of polls?

I haven’t mentioned EU approval, just that governments and organised crime have majorly impacted the country. In my experience Italians tend to be overly apologetic for their country and tend to blame mafia and governments. The mafia profits make up around 8% of Italy’s GDP.

There is an anti-German sentiment amongst quite a few though

Salvini supporters will no doubt blame the south as well.

Depends on the poll clearly

 

[martcov]

Tell me about it, I'd like to know more ?!

https://www.un.org/pga/72/wp-content/uploads/sites/51/2018/07/migration.pdf

The whole text. I just read the preamble and the aims.

 

[martcov]

In all polls of it’s population the EU popularity Italy has the lowest rating - even lower then ours.

Poll shows support for EU at 35-year high across bloc | Reuters

EU popularity at it’s highest since 1983. you’ll like this poll ( from May 2018 ).

 

[Grendel]

Poll shows support for EU at 35-year high across bloc | Reuters

EU popularity at it’s highest since 1983. you’ll like this poll ( from May 2018 ).

Do you have it by country? Does the 90% in the Home of the Fourth Reich distort it?

 

[martcov]

Do you have it by country? Does the 90% in the Home of the Fourth Reich distort it?

No, but I suspect Brexit distorted it. Other countries look on in amazement at the crap going on in the UK and clowns like BoJo and Lord Snooty appearing on their screens. I suspect that they see it as my German friends do, fxxk that for a game of conkers, we’re better off as we are.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

No, but I suspect Brexit distorted it. Other countries look on in amazement at the crap going on in the UK and clowns like BoJo and Lord Snooty appearing on their screens. I suspect that they see it as my German friends do, fxxk that for a game of conkers, we’re better off as we are.

….they certainly are. The EU is all set up for them, the posh dining table at the top of the room.

 

[Grendel]

No, but I suspect Brexit distorted it. Other countries look on in amazement at the crap going on in the UK and clowns like BoJo and Lord Snooty appearing on their screens. I suspect that they see it as my German friends do, fxxk that for a game of conkers, we’re better off as we are.

Italy are below the UK in the report on pretty much every measure and still as many think the UK has disadvantaged the country than benefited it and some of the ratings are sub 30

Not too happy in Czech either

 

[Astute]

France is the 3rd highest country in terms of people making asylum claims to it. It does also take in people voluntarily, it's not as though other countries don't take in any of the arrivals at all.

I think it has 'beefed up' since the Syrian issues.

Didn't you post a link earlier where France dropped off illegal immigrants back in Italy and the Italians are furious?

 

[Astute]

I read somewhere that the carbon footprint of a western child, (and I can't remember the exact figure), but it was something like 9 times that of a child in the poorest African countries so yes the western population explosion has slowed but we're still the biggest culprits when it comes to producing CO2.
And I'm of the opinion that we won't destroy the planet, we'll destroy ourselves and the planet will carry on quite happily without us.

The biggest culprits by far are China and the USA. They emit something like 20% of the total IIRC.

 

[Sick Boy]

Didn't you post a link earlier where France dropped off illegal immigrants back in Italy and the Italians are furious?

If you are unable to work out that there is a difference between those agreed to be taken in and those entering the country without permission, then I don’t know what to say