WTF? Why? The EU has absolutely nothing to do with our referenda. We were not locked in in the first place. Stick to a fact based discussion.... please.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (29 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
WTF? Why? The EU has absolutely nothing to do with our referenda. We were not locked in in the first place. Stick to a fact based discussion.... please.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with what he said, but believe it is based on the fact it looks like to many we have been backed into a corner, at least to some and so that hatred may increase.
Discussion isn't just about fact, it is also about opinion...
That is the problem. It is about opinion. In your case saying that you feel we should stick to the decision good or bad is an opinion. Fair enough. Some agree and some don’t. To say that people will distrust and hate the EU because our country is split because of the referendum is also an opinion, as you rightly say, but it is based on a false premise that the EU had us locked in and has something to do with us holding referenda. Not true. I give more weight to your opinion because it is based on the fact that people did vote leave. My opinion is that no one got what they wanted and the country will probably suffer. Therefore people should now have the opportunity to say either, what you say, go ahead whatever, or no, we didn’t vote to make ourselves, probably, poorer. Let’s remain.
Just to confirm that we are not locked in and are a sovereign state that can trigger or revoke article 50 unilaterally:
UK can cancel Brexit by unilaterally revoking Article 50, European Court advocate general says
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Yep I agree with that, but I don't know many people who want a second referendum? I don't think it is a popular opinion but then that may just be me!
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
What I would like to see is, if we were to 'cancel' Brexit, would the economy jump back, and how would the EU view us?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You tell me I am wrong yet you admit that there is no proof.
Try this one.
People have their reasons for wanting to leave the EU. But something has made some rethink for some reason. So what is the biggest worry people have?
Yes there were people that didn't know what the EU does. I am one of them. I thought it was a well run mechanism. I couldn't have been any more wrong. Would you like to have a discussion about this? And have an honest one without defending everyone and everything.
Of course we have been locked in, not legally but to all intents and purposes they have made it all but impossible to leave unless completely on their terms and have repeatedly stalled agreement.........and just to be clear people here won't be angry with Europe and the Europeans.....just the meddling middle men in Brussels and their pointless sleepy parliament.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I've no doubt the economy would get a boost if Brexit was cancelled, however, the problems such a scenario would cause would be far more than just economic.
Astute
Well-Known Member
They would love us to stay in. They need our money to waste. And it would send a strong message to those who in the future will get closer to wanting to leave the EU.
I really would like to see the back of that prick Mark Carney now too. Sick to death of his tales of armagedon, he sounds like the morons who were threatening everyone with economic collapse horror stories pre referendum.......can't these people see they and their threats from other establishment types rub up ordinary folk to vote against them !
How? They have been transparent all along. They have said you can leave. We can leave after a two year period. Why haven’t we left yet? We want a FTA which we can have after we have settled liabilities, the question of citizens rights ( EU and UK ) and the arrangements for the land border with the EU. Where is the problem? The money has been agreed. Citizens rights shouldn’t be a problem as it is reciprocal. The land border will have to be controlled if the leavers get their wish of „controlling our borders“. It will mess up the GFA, which will cause uproar, but that’s what you voted for. You won get over it. I said at the time Brexit was a stupid decision. I stand by that.
The UK will not get a better deal than the 27 members of the club. Nothing to do with the EU parliament, nor the council, nor the commission. Just plain old common sense. If you thought leaving was going to put the UK in a better position, as was said by the lying scum Brexiteers, then more fool you and be angry at the liars, not the people who told you the obvious, you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Crap. Really you are still in 2016 quoting Faragisms. The EU has moved on. Yes 1% of UK GDP would help the EU budget, but it is not the end of the World and not all EU money is wasted. As we are finding out by having to employ thousands of bureaucrats to replace EU agencies.
No. They painted the worst case scenarios and are taking steps to prevent them happening. If they are successful, as in 2016, you won’t say.. „thanks for being prepared and preventing the worst“. You will say... „ I told you so..na na n na na“.
If you are stupid enough to be rubbed up by professionals doing their job, then there’s no hope is there? Perhaps you would prefer listening to Lord Snooty, who claims that Carney is a failed Canadian politician, which he actually isn’t. He held a non political post in the Canadian civil service. ( Treasury ). The failed politician in this story being Lord Snooty who claimed to have 48 letters, but didn’t and ended up looking a right twat. You probably prefer him to Carney as a member of the ordinary folk who prefer snobby would be aristocrats to look up to than professional respected people.
You're just talking about economic impact again, consumption, growth, money funnelled into the burgeoning pockets of the already wealthy........many didn't vote because of money, many of those were already poor. The vote was to prevent Merkel's Muslim millions being passed on at a time when terrorism was rife. It was ordinary people concerned at what real say we had in that bias little parliament on the continent, it was about looking around them and seeing the negative impact of 250,000 extra people every year coming to a squeezed little bunch of Islands. It was about constant destruction of green belts for housing, rising crime, grooming gangs, gangs running around with machetes, foreign ghettos on mainland Britain, traffic gridlock, pollution, environmental disaster, hospitals failing, schools overcrowded and full of kids whose first language could be from almost anywhere, faith schools..........it was about identity and us rapidly losing ours !
When all this shit is finally over, one thing I'd like is a massive investigation of what the fuck happened. The Russians, dark money, media bias, think-tanks, cover-ups, the whole fucking system of government.
We're supposed to be a representative democracy. Our representatives have stopped properly representing us, the people. Decisions as important as this should not be put directly to the people, our parliament know this and yet they let it happen. Fucking omnishambles is an understatement.
We're supposed to be a representative democracy. Our representatives have stopped properly representing us, the people. Decisions as important as this should not be put directly to the people, our parliament know this and yet they let it happen. Fucking omnishambles is an understatement.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I am sure that we would be allowed to remain.
However, the complete reversal of the referendum could unleash something dreadful in the UK and massively increase nationalism. Therefore for me the most sensible compromise between the 2 would be membership of the EEA with the ability to apply a brake on migration if the country could demonstrate it was negatively impacting the country.
I would also invest in areas that have been left behind and ignored by those in charge. Whenever I venture up north from the south coast the state of the country is a massive contrast with it down here, again, its a domestic policy of being London-centric.
I don't like either of them, I want what's best for the country and for the ordinary people, I want to hear a balanced opinion with some realism. I didn't vote leave because of what I was told by these types, I voted because of what I saw and read about every day !
Firstly I think the EU would welcome us back and we would benefit from that. Most of EU laws that leavers claim were imposed on us, were voted for by us in the past and I think we would have more influence as no one wants to go through a period of uncertainty again in the near future. Depends on who leads us out of this mess.
We really need someone with charisma to actually go the leave areas and give them hope in the EU ( if that happened). One thing for sure, Lord Snooty and the other wealthy public schoolboys, couldn’t give a toss about Boston and Sunderland etc.. That’s where the emphasis has to be.. the working class leave areas, not the coastal town pensioners as they will never change their minds. The working people would though if they saw economic hope. Plus, people like Tommy Robinson joining in the fray on the leave side will lose moderate leavers.
Yes, but what did you read and what was the agenda behind it?
I doubt any of the creeps have really represented the people for perhaps 50 years now, no one trusts any of them do they ? No statesmen, just party politics and career enhancing grabbing wankers......who when they fail in parliament are landed with lucrative conjured up positions.....they rarely lose as Rome burns !
They have confirmed that we could revoke article 50 unilaterally as a sovereign state. Which we are and always were despite the lies that were spread... and believed.
Yes, but voting leave is just handing them even more power to fuck up the common people.
Dir me coming back a couple of times every year, I really notice the difference in wealth between, when I am as a tourist in London and visiting people in the South East, and some parts of Cov. A few hours waiting in A and E in Cov was an eye opener.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
As I said above, the difference between the south east and the midlands/north is worse than ever.
That is the irony. Blaming the EU for the false distribution of wealth and economic power in the UK, and then giving the power to people who want pure deregulated capitalism to make the situation worse for the ordinary folk. People go on about Juncker, Selmayr and bananas, but miss the point about who caused the crash of 2008? Who neglected areas of the UK? Why are there so many „gig economy“ and zero hours jobs? If wages are pressed downwards, why not raise minimum wage and increase greater control of minimum wage? These are the problems not bananas, and the old Etonians must be laughing their socks off at some of our discussions.
Well I read about innocent people being stabbed in the streets, grooming gangs of rapists, I watch hospital type programmes like 24 hours in A and E where one black lad after another were being brought in with stab wounds, I go to local pubs and I see drugs being openly banded around, I don't see hardly any police around, I read about more and more violent robberies on people and business { Very often by foreign or gypsy gangs }, the village I have lived in all my life is not a village at now, its grown from 5000 to 20,000 and is still growing { Many are Brits pouring out of the Cities to avoid the issues within }, there is no wildlife like there used to be, I see buildings quietly being turned into Muslim meeting rooms etc, faith schools springing up, homelessness on the rise, the roads are shocking, my wife works 10 hour days in a hospital that is so under stress from the demography, sue society, need for interpreters, allowance for various cultural needs etc etc.........that's what I see and hear all the time.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
as I asked in an earlier post, what makes you think that will change post Brexit?
I only see things getting worse.
Sadly you are probably right but we were given a choice to vote and we perhaps hoped for change for the better........my friends who voted Remain tended to be guys and Gals in rather nice Insurance and Finance jobs, architects and lawyers and working in education etc...........many more who I know who voted Leave had been impacted by companies closing, low wages, awful contracts and working conditions, Eastern European tradesmen undercutting them for building type work, people scared by criminality and terrorism, people who thought the £10 billion per annum could be better spent at home, people who recognized the trade deficit we have with the big European players and thought they would play ball to get a good deal for all...........I don't think anyone Remain or Leave had really known how strong the EU had become and underestimated it's influence on countries national decision making.
I tried { in my opinion } to point out what I think are the negatives that drove the vote..........and these were real life and happening every year and we've been stuck in the 'Club ' now for 40 years so all this has been under the watch of the EU. Ultimately mass free movement of people from anywhere not just the EU is what has really triggered all this, if immigration was controlled better all along and people were not mindful of our whole cultural identity being dissolved in a huge multi ethnic melting pot that was and is still running out of control then I believe the status quo would remain.
I would remind you Mart that the German population has remained stable and only maintained through some immigration where as ours in the UK has burgeoned to uncomfortable levels in many places in just 25 years. The infrastructure and tax receipts do not seem to have kept up with the increased demands.
Sounds really terrible. But, do black lads, grooming gangs, gipsies, Muslims really have a lot to do with the EU? It sounds really horrible where you live, I prefer Cov to that by a long way. Does the demography putting pressure on the NHS have anything to do with people living longer? Do the 10 hour shifts have to do with staff shortages?
I live in the EU and don’t see the things in that scale although my City has a population of 250000. Perhaps it is a British thing?
How will leave alter these things? Even Rees Mogg wants more migrants, preferably from India and Pakistan, as opposed to Europeans. That may bring a greater need for interpreters.
Where is this hell hole where you live? Just so I don’t make the mistake of turning up there.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Successful in 2016?
So yet again they got their predictions totally wrong. Yet you turn it into a success
Astute
Well-Known Member
Our representatives have stopped representing us?
That happened before you were born unless you are rich.
That is a British thing. Austerity plus. Less police. Neglect of the NHS. Neglect of infrastructure. Massive differences between wealth and power. Not enough done for the ageing population.
The UK opened up to Eastern Europe well before Germany and other countries and had massive commonwealth immigration. Germany didn’t, although Germany has manufacturing industry and a welfare state. You would actually expect Germany to be at least as attractive as the UK based on the economy. Germany does have a lot of Turks though, they are Muslim, but I don’t really notice them. They live their lives as they want and I don’t feel threatened by them. I really don’t see the level of crime here that you mention. Although I have seen pickpockets and I had 6000 stolen from my stand last year by people of middle eastern appearance. No violence, they just waited for my staff to do something stupid and took the opportunity. Annoying as it is, I don’t blame all Muslims for the acts of the few.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Why is it?
Whilst in the EU we have most rules/regulations made for us. We just have to follow them. If the people decide we should stay in the EU they are deciding that we should continue to have rules/regulations made for us. So then we can't blame whoever is running our country. But once out of the EU we would know who to blame for anything new coming out. We have a vote for this. But we don't have a vote with the EU.
Successful in 2016?
So yet again they got their predictions totally wrong. Yet you turn it into a success
The fact that Carney reacted by pumping billions in straight after Brexit saved the day which is why he was begged to stay on. Maybe we should have let Farage or Snooty be head of the BoE? Do you seriously think that there are better alternatives to Carney?