Open Letter to Supporters (31 Viewers)

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

At least call them out on it, ask them what it means for the club even beyond SISU if Wasps have the lease for 240 odd more years. Will we always be at the mercy of them? Ask them why they misled fans, voters and tax payers. The trust cant do anything without pointing out fisher and his stadium, why not take that approach with others?

Yes I imagine the SBT and CT are probably best placed to seek those answers/point out those observations. I think we have several more months of posturing before we have a chance of seeing any changes of stance.

 

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[skybluetony176]

But its not about who is to blame

Really? Have you read this thread? It’s got everything from you blaming the council for SISU being here in the first place to Nick blaming the trust for things that they haven’t had the opportunity to do yet while they’ve already been doing a lot of the stuff Nick says they haven’t done. You should probably take your own advice before you start levelling it at others.

 

[skybluetony176]

its about ensuring there is a club to support not season.

And if you truly believe that why have you and others spent pages upon pages debating the past instead of being productive and proactive about our future.

 

[Nick]

And if you truly believe that why have you and others spent pages upon pages debating the past instead of being productive and proactive about our future.

Maybe he should just write some soft open letters every couple of months for you? Bet they are all shitting themselves.

 

[Nick]

Really? Have you read this thread? It’s got everything from you blaming the council for SISU being here in the first place to Nick blaming the trust for things that they haven’t had the opportunity to do yet while they’ve already been doing a lot of the stuff Nick says they haven’t done. You should probably take your own advice before you start levelling it at others.

When can we expect you and the trust to start a new football team then? After all, if you don't like it just do it yourself. Not allowed to say anything no matter how constructive.

You and LAST seem to miss every time I post what I have tried to do to help the Trust. Strange that, same as how he didnt know board members were boycotting (neither did CJ).

Notice the difference when Schmee engages with something and people he may not always agree with and the difference in replies? He could be sat there doing wanker signs, but just simply engaging and saying "right, what can they do" gets a different response to "stand for the board", "they are writing letters, what are you doing"

 

[chiefdave]

And if you truly believe that why have you and others spent pages upon pages debating the past instead of being productive and proactive about our future.

You have no idea what I have or haven't done. But as I have said many times on this and other threads it is firmly my belief that individuals forming more small fans groups is counter productive. Everyone needs to unite behind one figurehead and the trust are the obvious candidates.

 

[chiefdave]

I'm not sure what they could realistically have set as a term of the deal with Wasps to indefinitely safeguard CCFC so it was always an empty statement.

CCC are still the freeholder. They could have inserted whatever clauses they liked in to the lease.

 

[skybluetony176]

Maybe he should just write some soft open letters every couple of months for you? Bet they are all shitting themselves.

It’s got more chance of success than calling them twats on a football forum as if that makes you some sort of hero.

 

[Captain Dart]

Its bollocks though isn't it?! If the assurances on the future of Coventry only ever applied for the 4 year deal then the assurances for Cov Rugby were Completely worthless. Just shows it was empty rhetoric to try and dodge any real scrutiny from people of Coventry.

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I already commented that the Council & Wasps effectively led all to believe there was no time limit on protecting the clubs residence at the Ricoh, but I'm sure you missed that, search for the word 'weasel' and you'll see.

Meanwhile you miss my point completely I am talking about SISU fixing a problem of their own making, If they did not pursue legal action then Wasps would cut a deal no problem.
Finally please tell me what the devil SISU get out of the legal action & if you think they should continue why do you think that as it clearly poses a risk to the clubs existence.

 

[chiefdave]

It’s got more chance of success than calling them twats on a football forum as if that makes you some sort of hero.

There's been plenty of constructive comments, ideas for things that could be done or areas they could improve. For some reason you've chosen to ignore them and instead turn the thread into the usual argument.

 

[Nick]

It’s got more chance of success than calling them twats on a football forum as if that makes you some sort of hero.

It really hasn't. I was also clearly being sarcastic when I said it. (Yes, they are all twats but the reason behind saying it).

May as well go and shout at buses in the street or chase pigeons shouting SISU in the park.

It's listening to people like you constantly blow smoke up their arse and no other range of views that is the issue. Like I said, even LAST and CJ jumped in at me saying none of the board boycotted.

 

[chiefdave]

Meanwhile you miss my point completely I am talking about SISU fixing a problem of their own making, If they did not pursue legal action then Wasps would cut a deal no problem.

Realistically, given there have been protests before, during and after games home and away, disruption to matches, people on the pitch, local and national media pieces and protests at their London offices what do you think fans can do that will make Seppalla decide to cease all current and future legal action?

 

[Captain Dart]

Realistically, given there have been protests before, during and after games home and away, disruption to matches, people on the pitch, local and national media pieces and protests at their London offices what do you think fans can do that will make Seppalla decide to cease all current and future legal action?

Nothing.

Why do you think the legal action continues, what is in it for SISU?

 

[stupot07]

I already commented that the Council & Wasps effectively led all to believe there was no time limit on protecting the clubs residence at the Ricoh, but I'm sure you missed that, search for the word 'weasel' and you'll see.

Meanwhile you miss my point completely I am talking about SISU fixing a problem of their own making, If they did not pursue legal action then Wasps would cut a deal no problem.
Finally please tell me what the devil SISU get out of the legal action & if you think they should continue why do you think that as it clearly poses a risk to the clubs existence.

Yes I saw and liked your weasel comment. It was more that they have further elaborated in their more recent statement.

I have no idea what Sisu are getting from the legals, and agree they can drop them, but its not going to happen. That shouldn't detract from the fact Wasps can still enter negotiations regardless of the legals, they have done it before. Pressure needs to be put on all sides, including Sisu.

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[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

CCC are still the freeholder. They could have inserted whatever clauses they liked in to the lease.

I meant in terms of getting a deal that a.n.other party would sign up to (their priority seeming at the time to have been to find owners for the stadium that weren't SISU) and that would actually be enforceable down the line. I doubt for example they could have insisted on a clause forcing Wasps to have CCFC as tenants for the life of the lease.

 

[chiefdave]

Why do you think the legal action continues, what is in it for SISU?

No idea, wouldn't be my plan of action but possibilities are: they believe they will win; they hope it will send ACL bust; its not costing them anything (either legals on retainer or no win no fee); someone made Joy read the entire EU thread so now she's punishing us.

 

[Nick]

I already commented that the Council & Wasps effectively led all to believe there was no time limit on protecting the clubs residence at the Ricoh, but I'm sure you missed that, search for the word 'weasel' and you'll see.

Meanwhile you miss my point completely I am talking about SISU fixing a problem of their own making, If they did not pursue legal action then Wasps would cut a deal no problem.
Finally please tell me what the devil SISU get out of the legal action & if you think they should continue why do you think that as it clearly poses a risk to the clubs existence.

Wasps cut a deal with legal action last year. That isn't saying the legal action is right either.

Why do you think the council and Wasps are trying to make out it's so easy for CCFC to just drop the legal action? They know full well it isn't like that but can just say it over and over.

 

[Nick]

I meant in terms of getting a deal that a.n.other party would sign up to (their priority seeming at the time to have been to find owners for the stadium that weren't SISU) and that would actually be enforceable down the line. I doubt for example they could have insisted on a clause forcing Wasps to have CCFC as tenants for the life of the lease.

Only way would be to have rates set by an independent 3rd party so nobody takes the piss either way.

 

[skybluetony176]

When can we expect you and the trust to start a new football team then? After all, if you don't like it just do it yourself. Not allowed to say anything no matter how constructive.

You and LAST seem to miss every time I post what I have tried to do to help the Trust. Strange that, same as how he didnt know board members were boycotting (neither did CJ).

Notice the difference when Schmee engages with something and people he may not always agree with and the difference in replies? He could be sat there doing wanker signs, but just simply engaging and saying "right, what can they do" gets a different response to "stand for the board", "they are writing letters, what are you doing"

WTF are you going on about now? Me and the trust start a new football team? You’re of your head.

Taking the piss by calling me a suffragette was that constructive? Providing links for councillors, MP’s, people at the telegraph ect that was constructive and you didn’t do that or want any part of it. Suggesting that everyone should send them emails stating that the pressure needs putting on Wasps asking the Telegraph to do a petition for Wasps to open talks, email councillors to remind them of the statement at time of sale, email MP’s asking for them to assist the club in support of Wasps opening talks. All that was constructive but yet again you want no part of that. How are you being constructive exactly? Trolling by opening old wounds? Not constructive. Trolling by bullshitting about what the trust hasn’t done? Not constructive.

 

[chiefdave]

I meant in terms of getting a deal that a.n.other party would sign up to (their priority seeming at the time to have been to find owners for the stadium that weren't SISU) and that would actually be enforceable down the line. I doubt for example they could have insisted on a clause forcing Wasps to have CCFC as tenants for the life of the lease.

So if it was impossible why say it? Don't think its much of an argument to say all local taxpayers should have knowledge of property law and what is and isn't allowed. If the council are saying it was a condition of sale then it should be in some form or another.

 

[Captain Dart]

No idea, wouldn't be my plan of action but possibilities are: they believe they will win; they hope it will send ACL bust; its not costing them anything (either legals on retainer or no win no fee); someone made Joy read the entire EU thread so now she's punishing us.

Nobody has read that thread and remained sane... ahhh there you have an explanation.

 

[Nick]

WTF are you going on about now? Me and the trust start a new football team? You’re of your head.

Taking the piss by calling me a suffragette was that constructive? Providing links for councillors, MP’s, people at the telegraph ect that was constructive and you didn’t do that or want any part of it. Suggesting that everyone should send them emails stating that the pressure needs putting on Wasps asking the Telegraph to do a petition for Wasps to open talks, email councillors to remind them of the statement at time of sale, email MP’s asking for them to assist the club in support of Wasps opening talks. All that was constructive but yet again you want no part of that. How are you being constructive exactly? Trolling by opening old wounds? Not constructive. Trolling by bullshitting about what the trust hasn’t done? Not constructive.

Pretty obvious, you can't make any suggestions with the trust without being told "what are you doing" or "do it yourself". How can you and the trust raise issues with the club? Surely the answer there is do it yourself. Start your own up if you dont like it?

I have posted plenty of constructive stuff, I called you a suffragette because of the way you go on and on like this. I had previously said fair play and then said after you went on and on like you were some sort of hero and nobody else ever does anything said that. Look at how schmee managed to get people talking constructively simply by not acting like somebody had been round to the trusts house and shit in their cornflakes by it's members daring to suggest things.

The trust has written some open letters for fuck sake, pull your head out of your arse. They have vowed to not let it drop, I bet everybody else is petrified. They have already said how great a Wasps game was, Wasps just see them as somebody on their side (just as the council do). It means they can get away with what they want knowing they can schmooze the trust a little bit and send them away ranting at SISU again.

Did anybody ever figure out who it was using a supporters direct account working with the council's PR company? Can you see why the council might think they can get away with spouting shit knowing full well there won't be any sort of issue?

It's simple, the other twats are seen as allies because they aren't SISU. Cosy up to them thinking that they will beat SISU up and the Trust can get hold of the club and live happily ever after.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

So if it was impossible why say it? Don't think its much of an argument to say all local taxpayers should have knowledge of property law and what is and isn't allowed. If the council are saying it was a condition of sale then it should be in some form or another.

Do you mean why would the Council say it? If so then I'd imagine because it was an easy way of solving a political issue at the time, without actually promising anything meaningful. Very cynical but that's my take I guess.

 

[shmmeee]

First step has to be to know what pressure the council can apply, then demand that pressure is put on. Similarly we need to make it clear that CCFC not being in Coventry (or god forbid not existing) isn’t an option.

What if Wasps say they’ll negotiate then we end up with he said/she said on the rental negotiations? That’s the issue I see. Ultimately a commercial deal has to be done, and let’s all be honest Sisu will use it as an opportunity to drive down the cost (as is their right) and Wasps to push it up (as is theirs). What would be the demands? Same terms as we have?

 

[Nick]

First step has to be to know what pressure the council can apply, then demand that pressure is put on. Similarly we need to make it clear that CCFC not being in Coventry (or god forbid not existing) isn’t an option.

What if Wasps say they’ll negotiate then we end up with he said/she said on the rental negotiations? That’s the issue I see. Ultimately a commercial deal has to be done, and let’s all be honest Sisu will use it as an opportunity to drive down the cost (as is their right) and Wasps to push it up (as is theirs). What would be the demands? Same terms as we have?

It's about being realistic really isn't it. People would need to know the details.

 

[Nick]

Do you mean why would the Council say it? If so then I'd imagine because it was an easy way of solving a political issue at the time, without actually promising anything meaningful. Very cynical but that's my take I guess.

Think it's exactly why it was said. Thing is, it's shown time and time again councillors can do whatever they want.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

Only way would be to have rates set by an independent 3rd party so nobody takes the piss either way.

Yeah that could have been an option. Of course you'd then have to expect everyone to start wanting their own expert so they could have a good fall out about it.

 

[shmmeee]

It's about being realistic really isn't it. People would need to know the details.

I think ultimate fallback has to be continuing terms, perhaps adjusted for inflation.

I think the earlier we can be clear about what we want to happen and who has to do it the more chance we have of having an impact. We know it’s coming and what the deal is this time. We spent most of the time in shock last time and ended up flailing about like idiots.

Any group (or SBT?) needs a rational, clear line to push that removes as much blame and rhetoric as possible.

I think continued terms for however long the legals are likely to last should probably be the start and end of it.

 

[Nick]

I think ultimate fallback has to be continuing terms, perhaps adjusted for inflation.

I think the earlier we can be clear about what we want to happen and who has to do it the more chance we have of having an impact. We know it’s coming and what the deal is this time. We spent most of the time in shock last time and ended up flailing about like idiots.

Any group (or SBT?) needs a rational, clear line to push that removes as much blame and rhetoric as possible.

I think continued terms for however long the legals are likely to last should probably be the start and end of it.

That's the thing, I don't think anybody is saying CCFC should play for free. Likewise shouldn't pay millions.

The lower the better for the club from our point of view but it needs to be realistic, how could it be valued? It's not like it's a standard 3 bed in Coundon with a drive to compare it against

First off I'd say people need to get behind the club, by the club I don't mean SISU. None of this hoping that Wasps kick us out so they can get one over on SISU. How does that start? Educating them that by kicking CCFC out it wont bother SISU? Same with explaining that by going to a game SISU arent taking all of it that some seem to believe.

It's like it needs a straightener to say, "this is where we are, this is how it is, the club genuinely is helpless so theres no point shouting at people like boddy, mark hornby and the twitter account to drop the legals".

 

[chiefdave]

The lower the better for the club from our point of view but it needs to be realistic, how could it be valued? It's not like it's a standard 3 bed in Coundon with a drive to compare it against

You'd have to compare to what other clubs pay. The quality of the stadium wouldn't really come in to it as the money from all the non-ticketing revenue streams don't benefit the club. So you'd be looking for clubs at a similar level with similar attendances. No idea what that would be, or if there even are any.

Ipswich and Peterboro both rent don't they (on the basis that I seem to recall them having rent disputes), wonder what they pay.

Edit: in 2012 Ipswich's rent increased form £15,000 to £111,500 a year. Capacity is 30,311.

Edit 2: in 2013 Peterboro ended a rent strike over their £500,000 a year rent when their landlords (the council) agreed to reduce it to £300,000 a year for the next 25 years and carry out £1m of ground improvement. Capacity is 15,314.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think ultimate fallback has to be continuing terms, perhaps adjusted for inflation.

Same terms has to be a given. If it was good enough for both last year to agree after negotiations (during legals!) then it's good enough this year.

 

[Nick]

Same terms has to be a given. If it was good enough for both last year to agree after negotiations (during legals!) then it's good enough this year.

There is that!

 

[shmmeee]

Agree that the thread that runs through is all is we don’t want CCFC to go under or leave.

The devils in the details though. All it’ll take is some twat with an letterhead allergy to get people’s hopes up and “what’s best for CCFC” takes a very divisive turn. You can’t control that. I think most people would want Sisu gone and a decent owner in, but some have, shall we say higher standards for potential owners than others.

 

[Nick]

Agree that the thread that runs through is all is we don’t want CCFC to go under or leave.

The devils in the details though. All it’ll take is some twat with an letterhead allergy to get people’s hopes up and “what’s best for CCFC” takes a very divisive turn. You can’t control that. I think most people would want Sisu gone and a decent owner in, but some have, shall we say higher standards for owners than others.

Think after Dale Evans people need to start taking a step back and seeing how realistic it is rather than throwing all the chips in as soon as they say "sisu" and "takeover".

You would like to think nobody will disagree with a new owner who will love CCFC (even if we might not get to the premiership ever and runs us at break even) if it is straight down the line, genuine with no games or messing about. None of their mates giving a step by step on what's going on and how we will be taken over by the weekend. None of the "I was with him and he did the deal there and then".

The question then is who and how....

 

[shmmeee]

Think after Dale Evans people need to start taking a step back and seeing how realistic it is rather than throwing all the chips in as soon as they say "sisu" and "takeover".

You would like to think nobody will disagree with a new owner who will love CCFC (even if we might not get to the premiership ever and runs us at break even) if it is straight down the line, genuine with no games or messing about. None of their mates giving a step by step on what's going on and how we will be taken over by the weekend. None of the "I was with him and he did the deal there and then".

The question then is who and how....

God help us all if we’re depending on the Facebook Forum lot suddenly becoming reasonable and measured.

Any talk of a new owner has to go. We proved last time that Sisu can’t be forced out (when IMO we had a good shout with admin and the golden share), they ain’t going anywhere unless they say otherwise and Joy doesn’t strike me as the type to give up easily.

Any solution will be reached with the current players.