The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (86 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
I came up here from Coventry to do a Masters of Philosophy at one of Scotlands fine Universities, just never managed to find my way back to Coventry yet.

Maybe when my health picks back up.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
I think he hasn't gone for the GE because of the amount of Labour voters who want out of the EU. Look at the Labour strongholds. Look how they voted.

EU Referendum Results
Click to expand...
Something like 77/23 of labour voters are happy with a second vote. I’m happy to say I’ve changed my opinion discussing things on here. I think it was outrageous to abdicate the decision but principled people see things different to me and I don’t think we’ve given our elected representatives enough time. They want the job they should bloody well do it. I will reconsider this end January
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Why FFS?

Didn't think anyone had any confidence in Theresa May.

No confidence sounds spot on.
Click to expand...

It’s a circus act with no basis in law
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
On the bright side, considering the government wanted to get a deal passed without Parliament having a say, this could have been so much worse...
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
Something like 77/23 of labour voters are happy with a second vote. I’m happy to say I’ve changed my opinion discussing things on here. I think it was outrageous to abdicate the decision but principled people see things different to me and I don’t think we’ve given our elected representatives enough time. They want the job they should bloody well do it. I will reconsider this end January
Click to expand...

Where does this 77 23 figure come from?
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Astute said:
She doesn't want to save her career. She has already said she is going.

To me what she wants to save is the Tory party. The Tories rely on floating voters. There is not enough rich to keep them in. There isn't enough middle class to keep them in. What they need is people who class themselves as middle class when they are working class.

And here is her problem. Most seats are in England. Most of England voted leave. Hardly anywhere voted remain. So if we end up staying in the EU the Tories will struggle for votes in the next GE. So she is trying to keep everyone happy but is making most unhappy. The EU doesn't want a deal. They want us to stay in. Those who want to remain are not happy. Those who want to leave are not happy.

And yet again she is ruling out another referendum as it would be irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics. I expect her to reiterate it again today. And I think it is for the reasons above.
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@Astute you said hardly anyone voted remain in the post I quoted earlier, I’ve quoted it again for you.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Astute said:
Would you like to point out where I said that hardly anyone voted remain?

Is this a twisting of words or was it just not reading what I said properly?

Most areas of England voted leave. That is what I said. MP's get voted in by an area voting for them. It isn't proportional representation.

Here is something for you to deny if you are trying to say I am being untruthful.

EU Referendum Results
Click to expand...

They were your own words,not mine. I’m not sure you’re in a position to accuse someone else of twisting words
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
So are we all agreed?

No way this deal goes through irrespective of another 5 days of discussion before w/c 14/1.

Therefore we will require a cross party solution because a second refurrendum is undemocratic and we expect our elected representatives to complete their jobs
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Referendum and undemocratic don’t belong in the same sentence. You’ve contradicted yourself. By definition, a second referendum cannot be undemocratic. Not holding one can be though, given that polls suggests the following; public rejects May’s deal, public favours Remain, and finally, is in favour of holding a second referendum. It’s undemocratic and ‘Stalinist’ (nod to Grendel) to not hold a second referendum.

As for a cross-party solution? Not happening, early in the process it may have been possible. Labour is risking electoral oblivion if it supports May’s deal. It’s suicide. On the flip side, there’s no downside for Labour to support a second referendum, despite many Labour strongholds voting Leave.


This sums up it up reasonably well.

Jeremy Corbyn slides in approval ratings in spite of Tory schisms

Party activists pile pressure on Corbyn to back second vote
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Referendum and undemocratic don’t belong in the same sentence. You’ve contradicted yourself. By definition, a second referendum cannot be undemocratic. Not holding one can be though, given that polls suggests the following; public rejects May’s deal, public favours Remain, and finally, is in favour of holding a second referendum. It’s undemocratic and ‘Stalinist’ (nod to Grendel) to not hold a second referendum.

As for a cross-party solution? Not happening, early in the process it may have been possible. Labour is risking electoral oblivion if it supports May’s deal. It’s suicide. On the flip side, there’s no downside for Labour to support a second referendum, despite many Labour strongholds voting Leave.


This sums up it up reasonably well.

Party activists pile pressure on Corbyn to back second vote
Click to expand...

You have previously said polls should not influence a decision but now they do

So if we do abd this is a remain decision it would be undemocraric not to have a third if leave forges ahead and then a fourth if remain come back and then a fifth leave sneak ahead again.....
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
You have previously said polls should not influence a decision but now they do

So if we do abd this is a remain decision it would be undemocraric not to have a third if leave forges ahead and then a fourth if remain come back and then a fifth leave sneak ahead again.....
Click to expand...

You’re taking that out of context. Polls aren’t the be all and end all, but the current political context means that second referendum should be on the table, the government cannot get its bill through and the UK finds itself in a constitutional crisis.

The use of the polls in this sense was to dispel this idea that a second referendum is ‘undemocratic’ or ‘Stalist’. It’s an stupid argument that is literally a contradiction and more importantly, isn’t in tune with wider public opinion. You’re trying to reduce my arguments to the lowest denominator and it’s not going to work.

Even you’re not against a referendum deciding on May’s deal or a no deal. The public, nor Parliament support May’s deal. Therefore, the decision should be between Remaining and Leaving.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
They were your own words,not mine. I’m not sure you’re in a position to accuse someone else of twisting words
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Not at all. You have changed the most important word. Anyone is nothing like anywhere.

You have reposted my post 3 times now. And each time it says the same. Think you need to keep off the beer.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Why FFS?

Didn't think anyone had any confidence in Theresa May.

No confidence sounds spot on.
Click to expand...

DUP will vote against the motion so cannot succeed.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Referendum and undemocratic don’t belong in the same sentence. You’ve contradicted yourself. By definition, a second referendum cannot be undemocratic. Not holding one can be though, given that polls suggests the following; public rejects May’s deal, public favours Remain, and finally, is in favour of holding a second referendum. It’s undemocratic and ‘Stalinist’ (nod to Grendel) to not hold a second referendum.

As for a cross-party solution? Not happening, early in the process it may have been possible. Labour is risking electoral oblivion if it supports May’s deal. It’s suicide. On the flip side, there’s no downside for Labour to support a second referendum, despite many Labour strongholds voting Leave.


This sums up it up reasonably well.

Jeremy Corbyn slides in approval ratings in spite of Tory schisms

Party activists pile pressure on Corbyn to back second vote
Click to expand...

Was reading the first of the two links earlier this evening, before seeing you had attached them. Interesting how low labours approval rating is for their handling of Brexit (bearing in mind what a mess May has made of negotiations, she’s still up 12% !!!)

As I’ve said before and to numerous mates, theres a frightening incompetence across the whole of Parliament. I think we probably have the least worst option dealing with Brexit (I reckon voters have seen through labour trying to politicise it rather than genuinely help to find a solution) What a sorry state of affairs
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Johnnythespider said:
The motion is a vote of no confidence in the P.M not the government, as such it may gain support on the conservative benches.
Click to expand...
Yup. No confidence in Theresa May.

Have the DUP for confidence in Theresa May? They don't seem at all happy with her at the moment.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Johnnythespider said:
The motion is a vote of no confidence in the P.M not the government, as such it may gain support on the conservative benches.
Click to expand...

I'm fully aware of that.
The DUP's Sammy Wilson has confirmed they will vote against the motion and here's no chance of Conservative MPs voting for it.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
SIR ERNIE said:
I'm fully aware of that.
The DUP's Sammy Wilson has confirmed they will vote against the motion and here's no chance of Conservative MPs voting for it.
Click to expand...

ERG have said they'll vote with the PM.
This has to be part of a wider strategy by Corbyn otherwise this is just meaningless.
 
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