We may well have a second referendum.
You. All others and around half of ours see the benefits which is why the EU won’t budge on FOM.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (186 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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We may well have a second referendum.
You. All others and around half of ours see the benefits which is why the EU won’t budge on FOM.
Yes. I thought we were on one. Still occasional fire coming in though. Anyway, I am sitting in front of my Christmas tree having had my German Christmas. Family and presents. Tomorrow is my English Christmas with my daughter and her boyfriend. Merry Christmas to everyone.
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
Mart. A second referendum is Not going to happen. For your own sanity....Give it up.
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
Merry Christmas Mart...
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Hear hear...Merry Christmas & Peace to one & all...including Mart
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep merry Christmas everyone just sat in the choir at midnight mass
Astute
Well-Known Member
Pre Iraq was all the plans of John Smith. The tax was the Tory rates for the first couple of years. The problems started as soon as Bliar wanted to put his mark on everything.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
From midnight I hope.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Are we playing football and singing silent night?
Astute
Well-Known Member
I'm enjoying the peace. Kids still not up. Do the usual trick. Put the younger kids in same bedroom. They keep each other awake so long they don't wake up until late. And wife loves her sleep after knocking back a couple of bottles of wine while wrapping the last of the prezzies.
Been getting my merry Christmas messages off the Palace supporters that I went to the Man City game with though. I am their lucky charm. They always win when I go.....or even just turn up. Still thanking me for giving them an excellent Christmas present and trying to talk me into going to their next game against Cardiff. They have even got me a ticket :wideyed:
Eton College and Balliol, Oxford.
That’s Roty Stewart‘s education btw. Right qualifications for the Tory government. Or Labour possibly.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And here is the problem.
I want the Labour party to be run by people with life experience. I don't want those who a bad life experience was having to turn up at school in the wrong car because daddy bought the wrong Merc. Or not going skiing in the most trendy place. I don't want them running around the world trying to sort out world peace with every nasty dictator alive.
I want them to know what it is like to see people in the gutter. I want them to know about the problems that normal people have. Like do they feed the electric meter or do they feed the family. I want them to have compassion for those not having a good time. I want them to want to help. I don't want the sound bites to win votes and then forget about what they have said.
Tony Bliar had a privileged upbringing. He had a private education at top schools/higher education. He became a Tory in disguise. He did a better job of taking off the poor to give to the rich that many Tories have done. Together with Brown they have done so much damage that it can never be reversed. Companies of all sizes are still failing because of what they did. And all in the name of Labour.
So no. I don't want toffs running the Labour party. That should be down to people with life experience that want to help their own.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I think that’s a little unfair. Tax credits made a huge difference to the lives of many as did the investment in schools and other public services, Iraq was a terrible tragedy for democracy and the Middle East and he had a god complex so won’t admit his error and never will
I’m happy we need intelligent people who understand how the system works in order to maximise their impact but and it’s a big one labour has lost its heritage and has now been hijacked by a number who are more interested in pure socialism than gaining some measure of power to make a genuine difference
Astute
Well-Known Member
Money was promised to the schools that didn't materialise. There was going to be specialised help going into classes. It got reduced to teachers help. There was going to be pay rises for teachers. It also didn't materialise. It was down to performance related rises. Lack of morale really took off in the time of Bliar.
And tax credits would be good if the companies that people work for didn't use them to their advantage. People should be much better off for working and not just slightly with problems being caused because of it.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s the art of what’s possible. Lots of friends in education saw significant differences. I don’t disagree companies should pay living wage but made a huge difference to many families
Astute
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
'New Labour', which to all extents is making its last stand in the Midlands is pretty much shocking.
I do believe in collective responsibility. This is why Coventry should start looking for new Labour MPs and councillors.
Here is the record of what your Coventry 'New Labour' MPs and councillors collectively supported when they were in power with regards to our Liberties and Human Rights.
The Convention on Modern Liberty
This, in itself, should be enough reason for the grassroots to retake control of the Coventry Labour Party and force changes, which they will soon be able to do when the internal local democratic review kicks in.
A lot of what they did is now illegal.
Its time for change good people.
I do believe in collective responsibility. This is why Coventry should start looking for new Labour MPs and councillors.
Here is the record of what your Coventry 'New Labour' MPs and councillors collectively supported when they were in power with regards to our Liberties and Human Rights.
The Convention on Modern Liberty
This, in itself, should be enough reason for the grassroots to retake control of the Coventry Labour Party and force changes, which they will soon be able to do when the internal local democratic review kicks in.
A lot of what they did is now illegal.
Its time for change good people.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
The problem is that it was from 2002. As you can see it missed targets and got worse as it went along.
How about the links I put up for you? They showed what happened with education and what the Tories actually thought of Bliar. He continued with giving the rich tax breaks and hitting the poor. He carried on where the Tories finished. And all this isn't even considering the Iraq war.
He had a very privileged upbringing. A typical Tory upbringing. And he acted just like a Tory leader. And the Tories loved what he did. He was PM when our population went up at the fastest rate. But house building was at its lowest rate. This led to the problems we now have.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I agreed with you but saw first hand the differences from 97 it all changed 2002
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Education spending as a percentage of GDP actually increased until the change of government.
UK Education Spending - Analysis, Charts Charts Tables
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The difference teaching under Labour and Conservatives was night and day. It felt like we were making progress, however slowly, under Labour. Once the Tories got in it was someone slammed the car into reverse.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Not just teaching, but various other public sector areas too.
Now there's a fair amount I certainly wasn't a fan of (PFI stores up issues for a short term fix - really we have to get back to a culture where people realise if they want something to happen, then somebody has to pay for it, and this means a choice of either higher taxes for more spending, or lower taxes and less public spending - you can't do lower taxes and more public spending bar an economic miracle!) but it's fair to say the last Labour government attempted to address some severe shortfalls in spending.
FWIW, Hammond seems a more pragmatic chancellor than Osborne, who seemed welded to dogma, so I have higher hopes in that respect than I did under the Tory party pre-referendum,... apart from the fact Brexit could cause serious issues short term, where spending is the easy thing to home in on and cut - especially if Hammond falls with his Prime Minister.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Brown was an appalling chancellor.
His decision on pension relief has been responsible for a generation of people being robbed of their pension income (not of course Mr Brown)
Blair’s education policy of shoving everyone to university regardless of ability will shackle taxpayers for generations to come. The reason being the only way Mr Dim could stop escalating youth unemployment.
The welfare state grew in inefficiency. Again at a cost to the taxpayer
The 10 years were a grotesque time
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tony’s found a link, Tony’s found a link....
Just a shit one
Savers could have lost £230bn in Brown’s pensions raid
Stick to being the Trust groupie. It’s more your style
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Boo hoo hoo. The taxpayer is no longer subsiding private pensions with tax breaks. When will the injustice end?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Still. It’s not like the Tories would ever do anything like that.
Oops Hammond set to raid pension tax relief funds to pay for NHS spending | Daily Mail Online
Senior Tory plans raid on pensioners' homes to solve care crisis
Oops Hammond set to raid pension tax relief funds to pay for NHS spending | Daily Mail Online
Senior Tory plans raid on pensioners' homes to solve care crisis
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Jesus wept. I remember now why I had you on ignore and now will again.
Astute is right. You really are one clueless thick fucker.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Which of course means I’m right but you won’t concede the point so childishly put your fingers back in your ears by pressing the block button. Well done.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tony you are on ignore again
I only really chose to look to see how far you are still up the trusts arse. It seems so far up you’ve probably found your way into Moz’s mouth (poor chap)
It’s embarrassing Tony. Isn’t it time you manned up and started to back the club?
I only really chose to look to see how far you are still up the trusts arse. It seems so far up you’ve probably found your way into Moz’s mouth (poor chap)
It’s embarrassing Tony. Isn’t it time you manned up and started to back the club?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The usual childish unrelated diatribe. Anything to avoid the actual point.
I only speak for myself, not sure why you try to pretend that I speak for anyone else, other than the obvious distraction. Always back the club. Unlike Mr Fisher. Perhaps you could start backing the club by accepting that and welcoming the criticism he’s worked so hard to deserve. I’m sure he appreciates your fawning constant defence of him over the club though.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Some people just don't understand what they think they know everything about.
It seemed like a victimless tax grab. Pension funds were in surplus. So let's tax the money they make and give a tax break to the rich. Let's not even spend the money on what we need. Like housing and infrastructure.
Within a few years those pensions were in trouble. People could no longer get a final salary pension as they had become expensive to run. Money purchase? To get the same as a final salary you need a pension that goes up each year. You also need a pension that pays 50% on average to a surviving spouse. Try buying that on the open market. Last time I looked you needed 100k just to buy 3.5k a year. And that was the best. Many were much lower.
But promises were already made. Suddenly companies had to put billions extra in each year. Some companies had to put more in than they were making profit just to keep up with promises already made. Of course it couldn't happen. So they got behind. Many healthy companies crashed because of the pensions already earned and that were well funded until Brown did his tax grab. Now all pensions have to pay more. They pay into a pot that pays where companies have crashed owing massive amounts to the pensions they ran. So companies have to pay even more. And those lucky enough to still have one also have to pay more.
But hardly anyone has one now. I have had one for a long time. But it closes at the end of the year. It closed less than 3 years after the Brown tax grab to new starters. They made changes about 5 years ago but it was still too expensive to run.
So back to the tax grab. It has cost untold job losses. This has cost untold tax payable. Well paid jobs have been lost. And within 20 years people will be retiring without a decent pension. So many more will rely on the state in their later years. Instead of still paying into the system after retiring they will be taking money out. And someone will have to pay for this. It will be those who also don't have a decent pension. And so on.
Yet you will get idiots who haven't got a pension like this who think it was a good idea to tax them to make sure they couldn't get one. And they don't get the problems ahead because of it.
I am lucky. I have enough years in to retire early. It will free up a job with decent pay for someone young to take up. I will always be a tax payer even after I stop working. But the generation after me won't be able to. Ask them what they think. Many blame my generation. We have even been through it on this thread.
But of course we have the 'know it all' posters that know differently. Then they wonder why I say I am a Labour voter but I have a pop at Labour. Yet those who question me will be those who suffer and will have to work until they drop. And they will try and make excuses for Brown. Some idiots will even call it a good move by Brown.
If anyone has a question on the matter I will happily answer. If Tony has a question can someone please relay it to me.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Bliar got voted in on promises he didn't keep.
Yes night and day. But the extra money didn't all go to where it should have.
How about poor areas get less money than rich areas?
How school funding works in England - and why it desperately needs reform
Does anyone know how new schools were paid for? Has anyone heard of PPP/PFI? Yes this comes out of the school and education budget. It is the same way new hospitals were built.
True cost of PFI/PPP school builds is revealed
Or how about the continual extortionate costs involved? And all taken out of the education budget and education system.
Hundreds of schools held hostage over PFI contracts, as investigation reveals one paid £2,000 for a new sink
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