Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
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Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
some aren’t positives and some are not factual
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Is this the same Peter Lilley who became a climate change denier after receiving a share option worth almost half a million from an oil company? Maybe it’s the Peter Lilley who was caught in a cash for brexit sting by a journalist posing as a wealthy Chinese businessman willing to pay for influence on the referendum?
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Just bollocks. Nothing there at all. Some schoolkid about 12 years old could have written that. The mark would be '3/10 see me!'
The fact that they are scared of it shows how far public opinion has shifted. If Brexit was rolling along nicely they would be arguing for a clear mandate and agreeing to a second referendum.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
We can’t use opinion polls anymore, referendums are undemocratic, unless we give them the option of ‘no deal’ or May’s Deal - Brexit or... Brexit - and in spite of changing public opinion, pressing on with a no deal Brexit if May’s deal is rejected is the democratic thing to do.
But, we’re the Stalinists to suggest a second referendum with the option of Remaining...
A few people need to look up Stalin and Stalinism as they throw it around in the same way lefties throw around the term Nazi for anyone right of the centre.
It’s amusing to be dismissed as ‘lacking credibility’ and patronised because I’m 24, yet an essay I wrote in 2015 has been pretty accurate so far. But what do I know? I’m just a dumb kid.
Certainly not a dumb kid. Stating the obvious will get you plenty of criticism on here though. Brexit is progressing as I predicted as well. The costs are rising and firms are getting jittery. Some are already opening offices in the EU. Production of some goods is being shifted to EU countries. Uncertainty is affecting investment. People on here will go on about Juncker, Selmayr, Merkel’s fourth Reich or EUSSR or Macron‘s problems and say the EU is collapsing. Anything to distract from the self harm and recklessness that Brexit involves.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Correct. There are people that voted remain. They didn't have a clue what the EU is like or how it is run. They now know.
I suppose everyone that voted remain would do so again....
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem for leave is that one demographic of leave voters are literally dying out while a demographic of remain voters is growing on a daily basis as they are coming of voting age. Two and a half years of these changing demographics now so it’s no wonder that leave voters are running scared of a continuation of democracy. Forget opinion polls, forget people who voted in 2016 changing their minds. It’s the change in demographics that has leavers running scared and wanting to stop the clock on democracy.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Are you saying Germany is doing well so the rest of the EU is doing well? You are even wrong on Germany doing well. But let's forget about that point.
As I have said countless times before it is a good reason for the EU to want a trade deal with us. But the doom mongers on here don't want to see the truth.
Recession risk leaves EU acutely vulnerable to a British Brexit walk-out
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
European elections amid a looming economic storm
Gold news - Eurozone growth slows to 0.2% as recession risk rises | GOLD.co.uk
Astute
Well-Known Member
Maybe if the EU didn't lend money to countries and companies outside the EU to take manufacturing jobs away from the UK...........
Astute
Well-Known Member
Credibility?
Show me anywhere that says 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum.
Evidence? I give evidence with most things I post. I don't make 64% claims that I can't provide evidence for. How about you?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you don't want another referendum that could make the process last a very long time and cause even more division?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Lies again Mart I see.
I have always said why should an EU passport give the right to move here no matter what skills you have when the workers with the skills needed and a job to go to if you come from outside the EU doesn't mean you can come here.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Peter Lilley's 30 positive Brexit points.
Lots of his points are incorrect, some are just statements that don't really tell us anything and his points about the WTO are nonsense.
The WTO isn't as safe haven, every country in the world spend large amounts of time and effort trying to make trade deals because the WTO is a last resort and punitive.
And yes, we are a member but we have to re submit our schedules and our first attempt has already been rejected, and by countries who are supposed to be our big allies once we leave the EU.
Stuff like we can still sell cars to the EU and we can still sell plane parts, who said we can't? But both those industries rely heavily on JIT manufacturing supply chains which are going to be massively disrupted.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The UK has just had yet another month of record employment.
So Germany is having a problem and just because of the diesel scandal that the EU let them get away with as long as it could? I thought you said that the 20,000 jobs lost in the German car industry if we leave without a deal wouldn't be a problem.
Isn't it strange that the UK is the only country that will have major problems.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Like saying that at least 64% would vote remain if there was another referendum?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s a nonsense sound byte from the guardian
The poll actually shows 54 vs 46
This is identical to the position at the start of the last referendum. Given that apparently we now know what Brexit means it’s interesting that the gap is no different than before and a 5% swing would deliver the same result again
He conveniently ignores also the fact that all major industrial leaders believe a second referendum could be high risk and equally as damaging as just leaving with no deal as the markets would react very negatively - it’s very possible the result would be the same
What if course he wants is a referendum which is this deal or stay. Apparantly the electorate cannot cope with more than 2 questions on a referendum ballot
In the end any referendum has to allow the leave majority an option to leave either by accepting this deal or wanting an alternative.
The truth is remain should not be an option if there were a referendum but a choice of the deal or no deal at all if those were the only alternatives available
We’ve been through this Faragism a thousand times. You could say if the EIB hadn’t lent billions to U.K. firms we would have less jobs. You revert to an 8 million loan which will be repaid shortly as part of a massive project.
I don’t know what you are referring to. I have not mentioned 20000 job losses in Germany. I have said from the word go that we will all suffer. The U.K. more than individual EU countries as trade with the EU is a higher percentage than the EU’s trade with the U.K.. ROI being the exception, but they will get EU aid. The EU didn’t let ‚them‘ get away with the Diesel scandal as long as they could. I know leavers that blame the EU for taking action and making motoring more expensive through new technology. The EU cannot win with leavers.
Markets will react negatively to no deal. Markets will react negatively to a confirmation of Brexit in a referendum
If we scrapped Brexit tomorrow, markets would react positively and the pound would soar.
At least you now admit that the clever money sees Brexit as a disaster.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Haha, sounds great in theory but in reality the majority of these 18 year olds can’t be arsed to vote anyway, as evidenced at the referendum. What was it, a turnout of just 36% of 18-24 year olds? So whilst they shout loudest about injustice, anyone who relies on them actually voting is misguided. And in any case a large proportion of Uni loonies grow out of their daft ideas once they mature and begin to understand the real world.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The pound soaring would be a disaster for many British industries such as Jlr
The devaluation 2 years ago saved many uk industries
That one statement shows how out of your depth you are
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think you’re using now floored data that was actually based on the previous GE not the referendum itself. Current data has it much higher, over 60%. As was the next age bracket 25-39 and the following age bracket of 40-54. Yes the next two age groups were higher, 90% for over 65’s but as already pointed out they are a dying breed.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s not what I said. Debate my actual points.
The people polled were largely in favour of Remaining in the EU (54%) and that increased to 64% if May’s Deal was rejected by parliament and we’re faced by no deal. Yourself and others, who reject the premise of the second referendum, cannot claim the moral high ground of abiding to the ‘will of the people’ when public opinion is turning against Brexit. You don’t have a leg to stand on here.
It’s not ironclad, and I’m not predicting the result of another referendum. But these opinion polls are significant and suggests there’s no mandate for a ‘no-deal’ Brexit.
The use of opinion polls is better than the anecdotes some people have come up with. Statistics > anecdotes.
I didn't comment on whether that would be a good or bad thing. Just how others perceive the situation.
Astute
Well-Known Member
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10...-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/
How about the truth for once. The EU loaned them 80m so they could take jobs out of the UK. And we had to finance a fair bit of this loan. So because of EU rules we had to help to finance taking manufacturing jobs out of the UK. Yes good news Mart.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Oh yes you did. We spoke about it. You said it wouldn't cause much harm to Germany but would cause us a lot of harm.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Me moral high ground? No.
I constantly pick out false news. Just like you saying that a minimum of 64% would vote to remain. Would you like to show some evidence? After all you say you don't make sweeping statements.
The EIB lent UK firms 1500 million in the same year. The EIB lent a Turkish joint venture 80 million. Did the UK benefit more or less than Turkey? Which EU rule said that we had to help taking manufacturing jobs out of the UK? Ford decided to do that. The 80 million was only a part of a much larger project in a neighbouring country to the EU. A small percentage of EIB loans are to neighbouring EU countries. The loan was not the deciding factor in Ford's decision. Ford is a multi billion company. An 80 million loan is a drop in the ocean for them. It has to be paid back shortly. If they didn't get it from the EIB, they would have got it elsewhere allbeit at a higher rate of interest. The end result would have been the same.
The whole story is spin.
A no deal will cause the UK more harm than Germany because of the total volumes as a percentage of exports.
Anyway, besides that, I find a discussion about how badly off we will all be because of Brexit, a bit weird. I think it confirms what a fxxk up Brexit is whether Germany or the UK suffers more. Everyone involved will suffer at least short term.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Did the EU lend 80m to Turkey to make a factory able to manufacture Transit vans that were made in the UK?
Yes.
So what is the spin?
Did the EIB lend 1500 million to the UK which helped create jobs at the same time?
Did Ford make the decision to close a UK plant, or did Ford?
Is the Ford factory a part of a bigger development which would have gone ahead anyway?
The spin is saying that the EU lent Turkey or Ford money to take away jobs from the UK. It didn't.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are ignoring the point I am making. Just like the other 'we must stay in the EU whichever way we can' posters on here.
It would be massive for the EU to not make a trade deal with us. But you don't want it said. You just want to make out that it will be Armageddon for us.
The wife has found a house in France and looks like she is going to view it. I will be staying in England as I need to work for a few.more years yet. If Brexit wasn't happening she wouldn't be doing it. 3 of my children will be going with her if we buy it. I don't want Brexit to happen. But that doesn't mean that I should ignore the truth. It doesn't mean that I should chat shite on here. It is going to f¥ck my plans up. I legally can't retire for over 4 years yet. So I will be apart from my family most of the time for over 4 years.
But like I jeep saying I still think there will be some kind of deal that keeps us in the EU. But the wife doesn't want to risk our plans. And she is looking at near the South coast. I won't want to make that journey every week.