The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (208 Viewers)

[martcov]

When they are breaking worldwide agreements and killing people yes. This is beside Germany breaking the rules and regulations that everyone else has to keep to. But as you are German....Or more or less German.... It doesn't surprise me how you try and defend everyone involved.

Who is killing people? Germany? I didn’t know that was german policy. There are comparative works on the difference between official emission limits and those of some German cars. The number is not huge and doesn’t mean that the only Diesels in the world with particle emissions are German. You are trying to brand Germany as a nation of killers because of diesel cars. You really are twisting things. As usual.

 

---

[dutchman]

I thought we may have gotten over infantile remarks. Apparently not.

Well you certainly haven't, apparently.

Germany isn’t leaving the EU, we are. How’s that panning out? All going to plan? Oops, any news of a plan for leaving being made and agreed by the UK government?

You mean like The Schlieffen Plan? That worked out well didn't it? (German impreialists like Martcov love their 'plans').

Any reason the UK should agree to a plan to bail out German exporters in the event of a no-deal Brexit?

 

[Astute]

1. I didn’t say Tusk was wrong.

2. You said Germany was getting away with looking after it’s own businesses in a proposal that has only just been put forward and is limited to certain businesses and certain conditions which you are not aware of. Germany also wants the EU rules changed on international cartel law. They have to get the EU to agree to that for which they need support of others in the EU. Normal discussion, and seems sensible.

3. Germany is in trouble with the EU over Diesel. The complaint is that the EU was slow to act. Yes it seems so. Not a reason for leaving the EU though.

OK Mart from Germany.

1, I asked you if the wording from Tusk was wrong. You said yes. Now you deny it. But it is there in black and white.

2, The EU knew about the German car industry breaking all rules and regulations for years before anyone else knew. I have proved this to you several times. Their biggest thing now is fining the countries that bought these seriously polluting cars for having pollution above the limits.

 

[Astute]

So. It’s all about FOM. Which you deny is your hobby horse.

Who refuses to see bad in the EU?

You are frightened by immigration. I think EU migration will slow as the Eastern European countries catch up. Net EU Immigration is declining already, but our population is getting older on average and we need migration. Non EU migration is replacing EU migration so I don’t know how you are winning on that by leaving. The figures taken in the articles were from 2015 at a peak in EU migration. 500000 are not going to come to the UK every year even if it is a big number.

What makes you think that Germany doesn’t have immigration? I thought we lived under mad Merkel who has invited the world to Germany?

You are assuming that EU migration continues at the present ( 2015 ) rate and that EU citizens will not go home when they are older. Non EU are less likely to go home than EU because of geography and possibly health care.

No it isn't all about FOM. And you know it. The question is why are populations reducing even in countries that you tell us are doing well including Germany and ours is still going up when you tell us how crap we are.

So answer the question. Why don't people want to live in Germany or is there something stopping them from moving to Germany? You should know as you keep telling us how great Germany is.

 

[Astute]

Who is killing people? Germany? I didn’t know that was german policy. There are comparative works on the difference between official emission limits and those of some German cars. The number is not huge and doesn’t mean that the only Diesels in the world with particle emissions are German. You are trying to brand Germany as a nation of killers because of diesel cars. You really are twisting things. As usual.

Numbers not huge?

Is this the limits being exceeded in some cars by multiples of 30 times allowed? Or is it the countless thousands dying each year because of the extreme pollution coming out of these cars that the EU knew about for years but the only thing it did was keep quiet?

Do I have to go through posting the links to show you are trying to change history again on this subject?

 

[martcov]

Numbers not huge?

Is this the limits being exceeded in some cars by multiples of 30 times allowed? Or is it the countless thousands dying each year because of the extreme pollution coming out of these cars that the EU knew about for years but the only thing it did was keep quiet?

Do I have to go through posting the links to show you are trying to change history again on this subject?

I am not trying to change anything, we’ve been all through this before. Yes, the German government should have acted quicker and so should the EU. People did not know the extent of this for years and then were hit with it. It does not mean that all other cars are clean. All car manufacturers are having problems with diesel and either going over to other engines or cleaner diesel. It also doesn’t mean we should break up the EU.

 

[Astute]

Well you certainly haven't, apparently.



You mean like The Schlieffen Plan? That worked out well didn't it?

Any reason the UK should agree to a plan to bail out German exporters?

This explains the problem Germany has quite well. It is what Mart tries to deny. The EU is run to the benefit of Germany including the Euro. The other countries in the Euro can't devalue to reduce debt to Germany. But it is now coming back to bite Germany. Do they continue to give credit to those countries that can't afford to pay what they already owe? Do they try and get what is owed at risk of finishing off the Euro?

This is what those who are pro EU whatever ignore. Yes it is best to be in the EU. But if it all goes tits up it is best to be out. Several EU countries are on the brink. Italy seems to be joining this camp. They badly need our money to keep bailouts going. And this is where I find it hard to decide. If we leave the EU there is a much bigger chance of it all failing. This would lead to a world recession. But if we stay in and it fails we would be hit much harder than if we were out of it when it happens.

It comes down to how much Germany is willing to let those countries in trouble run up more debt. If Germany stops running up the debts it will go into a worse recession than now. Will EU bailouts increase to help with the problem?

The countries in the EU can't decide what is best because it isn't run by them. It is run by those who are only interested in a continuation of the gravy train. If you don't do what is best for the establishment of the EU you don't get a chance of getting a position where you can change things. All you can do is voice your opinion on how wrong things are. And of course this gets ignored. Just like when the rules got broke when the last top position got filled by a German.

 

[Astute]

I am not trying to change anything, we’ve been all through this before. Yes, the German government should have acted quicker and so should the EU. People did not know the extent of this for years and then were hit with it. It does not mean that all other cars are clean. All car manufacturers are having problems with diesel and either going over to other engines or cleaner diesel. It also doesn’t mean we should break up the EU.

Yes the EU knew for many years. So did the German government.

Who said break up the EU?

I am with the leaders of the countries in the EU. It needs reform and very quickly. But that is down to those who don't want reform as it would take their power away.

 

[martcov]

Migration to Germany half yearly
738.735 in
317.594 out
+421.141 net
305.595
141.490
+164.105
2013
884.493
366.833
+517.660
362.984
146.040
+216.944
2014
1.149.045
472.315
+676.730
518.802
181.381
+337.421
2015
1.810.904
568.639
+1.242.265
1.125.419
265.603
+859.816
2016
1.307.253
664.356
+642.897
673.217
324.333
+348.884
2017
1.179.593
644.613
+534.980

The figures with the plus are the net migration figures to Germany. Higher than the UK.
I don’t know where you get the idea that people only want to come to the UK from, and that nobody wants to come to Germany.

Shows how much propaganda there is in the UK.

 

[martcov]

This explains the problem Germany has quite well. It is what Mart tries to deny. The EU is run to the benefit of Germany including the Euro. The other countries in the Euro can't devalue to reduce debt to Germany. But it is now coming back to bite Germany. Do they continue to give credit to those countries that can't afford to pay what they already owe? Do they try and get what is owed at risk of finishing off the Euro?

This is what those who are pro EU whatever ignore. Yes it is best to be in the EU. But if it all goes tits up it is best to be out. Several EU countries are on the brink. Italy seems to be joining this camp. They badly need our money to keep bailouts going. And this is where I find it hard to decide. If we leave the EU there is a much bigger chance of it all failing. This would lead to a world recession. But if we stay in and it fails we would be hit much harder than if we were out of it when it happens.

It comes down to how much Germany is willing to let those countries in trouble run up more debt. If Germany stops running up the debts it will go into a worse recession than now. Will EU bailouts increase to help with the problem?

The countries in the EU can't decide what is best because it isn't run by them. It is run by those who are only interested in a continuation of the gravy train. If you don't do what is best for the establishment of the EU you don't get a chance of getting a position where you can change things. All you can do is voice your opinion on how wrong things are. And of course this gets ignored. Just like when the rules got broke when the last top position got filled by a German.

Here we go again.

Italy is run by populists. They were told about the risks of increasing their national debt as it would increase uncertainty. It increased uncertainty. They are in a recession because of uncertainty. You blame Germany.

Selmayr was appointed by a college of 3, as provided for in a case of urgency. That is within the rules. People think that they pushed the rules to the limit by the way it was carried out. The answer to the ombudswoman report was published in December, which criticised the wording of the ombudswoman press releases as being different to the wording in her report, and that she had not interviewed the parties involved and had made false statements and conclusions because of that.

This report was not reported in the Daily Farage or other Brexit rags. Surprised? I’m not.

 

[martcov]

Yes the EU knew for many years. So did the German government.

Who said break up the EU?

I am with the leaders of the countries in the EU. It needs reform and very quickly. But that is down to those who don't want reform as it would take their power away.

It will always need reforming to evolve as the world evolves. Not unusual, but you are straight in there when someone dares to suggest a reform.

The German government wants to alter the cartel rules to be able to compete with US and Chinese companies. You come out with Germany gets away with everything.

Siemens and the French Train builders want merge to be able compete on a scale with the Chinese. The EU cartel rules are against that.

The fear is that Europe will get left behind in technology.

 

[martcov]

This explains the problem Germany has quite well. It is what Mart tries to deny. The EU is run to the benefit of Germany including the Euro. The other countries in the Euro can't devalue to reduce debt to Germany. But it is now coming back to bite Germany. Do they continue to give credit to those countries that can't afford to pay what they already owe? Do they try and get what is owed at risk of finishing off the Euro?

This is what those who are pro EU whatever ignore. Yes it is best to be in the EU. But if it all goes tits up it is best to be out. Several EU countries are on the brink. Italy seems to be joining this camp. They badly need our money to keep bailouts going. And this is where I find it hard to decide. If we leave the EU there is a much bigger chance of it all failing. This would lead to a world recession. But if we stay in and it fails we would be hit much harder than if we were out of it when it happens.

It comes down to how much Germany is willing to let those countries in trouble run up more debt. If Germany stops running up the debts it will go into a worse recession than now. Will EU bailouts increase to help with the problem?

The countries in the EU can't decide what is best because it isn't run by them. It is run by those who are only interested in a continuation of the gravy train. If you don't do what is best for the establishment of the EU you don't get a chance of getting a position where you can change things. All you can do is voice your opinion on how wrong things are. And of course this gets ignored. Just like when the rules got broke when the last top position got filled by a German.

And, the Germans are mad at the EU commission for blocking the Siemens merger. Today actually.

They want to reform cartel commission. The commissioner rejected the argument that they had to merge to compete against the Chinese on the grounds that China is unlikely to enter the train market in the EU in the near future. Which is strange as it is the Europeans who want to sell in China and other markets.

The merger would have secured EU jobs.

That is an example of why reform of the rules is needed.

Nobody denies that some reform is necessary, but they don’t want to change the 4 freedoms.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Hysterical crap ! What a ridiculous and desperate statement from a twisted and bitter individual.

The kind of thing an England football manager would get sacked for...but it is okay for President Tusk

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Kamikaze revived in the form of Brexit.

The Brexit cult tries to stop any criticism of vacuous morons who offer empty destructive promises while having no solution.

God help us.

 

[Sick Boy]

This explains the problem Germany has quite well. It is what Mart tries to deny. The EU is run to the benefit of Germany including the Euro. The other countries in the Euro can't devalue to reduce debt to Germany. But it is now coming back to bite Germany. Do they continue to give credit to those countries that can't afford to pay what they already owe? Do they try and get what is owed at risk of finishing off the Euro?

This is what those who are pro EU whatever ignore. Yes it is best to be in the EU. But if it all goes tits up it is best to be out. Several EU countries are on the brink. Italy seems to be joining this camp. They badly need our money to keep bailouts going. And this is where I find it hard to decide. If we leave the EU there is a much bigger chance of it all failing. This would lead to a world recession. But if we stay in and it fails we would be hit much harder than if we were out of it when it happens.

It comes down to how much Germany is willing to let those countries in trouble run up more debt. If Germany stops running up the debts it will go into a worse recession than now. Will EU bailouts increase to help with the problem?

The countries in the EU can't decide what is best because it isn't run by them. It is run by those who are only interested in a continuation of the gravy train. If you don't do what is best for the establishment of the EU you don't get a chance of getting a position where you can change things. All you can do is voice your opinion on how wrong things are. And of course this gets ignored. Just like when the rules got broke when the last top position got filled by a German.

Where has there been talk of Italy being bailed out? Your other posts trying to blame the EU and Germany for the recession wouldn’t be out of place at a LLN meeting.

Corruption from the very very top is what holds Italy back, especially as taxes are incredibly high for businesses and wages, yet this isn’t reflected in services - who knows where it goes. It also goes without saying that it needs reform which is resisted.

Britain would also have been exempt from funding Eurozone bailouts had it voted to remain, so you’re making that one up.

 

[martcov]

Well you certainly haven't, apparently.



You mean like The Schlieffen Plan? That worked out well didn't it? (German impreialists like Martcov love their 'plans').

Any reason the UK should agree to a plan to bail out German exporters in the event of a no-deal Brexit?

More infantile comments. Back to WWI in the bargain.

Classic leaver.

What‘s that about bailing out German exporters? Been on the Breitbarts again?

 

[Nick]

More infantile comments. Back to WWI in the bargain.

Classic leaver.

What‘s that about bailing out German exporters? Been on the Breitbarts again?

Project fear mate

 

[martcov]

The kind of thing an England football manager would get sacked for...but it is okay for President Tusk

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

An England Football manager wouldn’t usually be in the position of calling out people leading their country into a mess by not having a plan.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The UK press and BBC are overwhelmingly pro-EU. If you lived here you would know that.

How do you work out the press are pro Eu?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It was the job of Cameron, Osborne, Carney, etc., to plan for Brexit, not the people pushing for it. They failed to do their job and still are.

I think it’s both and rather than either or but there is absolutely a responsibility for people who campaingned to leave should have had a clue how it as going to be possible

 

[Astute]

Where has there been talk of Italy being bailed out? Your other posts trying to blame the EU and Germany for the recession wouldn’t be out of place at a LLN meeting.

Britain would also have been exempt from funding Eurozone bailouts had it voted to remain, so you’re making that one up.

A typical reply.

If someone kept giving you credit that you couldn't afford to pay back the blame should be shared between the person spending what they haven't got and the person who keeps loaning the money they know won't be coming back easily.

Agreed?

Look at how much Germany has been lending to the countries in the shite. They know it won't be coming back easily. But they need to keep the money flowing so their economy doesn't suffer. So the countries heavily in debt keep getting into more debt. Then you have Germany making billions in interest payments but the debt stays at astronomical levels.


Germany made billions on Greece’s debt crisis, Berlin confirms

Italy won't need a bailout?

Why Italy Could Be the Epicenter of the Next Financial Crisis

We are a big part of the EIB. We are owed billions by the EIB. If the EU is at risk because of Italy the EIB will most probably step in. We are tied to the EIB for at least 30 more years even if we leave the EU next month. So you know for sure that we wouldn't have to put even more money into the EIB if needed?


The rules change as needed.

 

[Astute]

How do you work out the press are pro Eu?

Look at the BBC. It is project fear and nothing else. There was a major catastrophe last week. It was all about stockpiling ice cream. But try and find anything against the EU. Even the readers comments are constantly saying about the bias from an organisation that should be totally unbiased in every way.

 

[martcov]

But Martcov wouldn't know that as a) he doesn't live here and b) he believes everything the German media tell him.

Funny as when I say Farage is constantly in the news in the UK, I am told he is an irrelevance and I don’t know anything because I don’t live in the UK. People in the UK claiming they never see him on TV.

I spend more time reading and watching UK media. I was on SAT1 and Kabel1 German TV and quoted in the FNP recently about Brexit, so I certainly believe that part of the German media.

You probably wouldn’t have liked those interviews.

 

[Astute]

I think it’s both and rather than either or but there is absolutely a responsibility for people who campaingned to leave should have had a clue how it as going to be possible

It was the job of Cameron to say it how it was and not just try and scare people into voting remain.

 

[martcov]

Look at the BBC. It is project fear and nothing else. There was a major catastrophe last week. It was all about stockpiling ice cream. But try and find anything against the EU. Even the readers comments are constantly saying about the bias from an organisation that should be totally unbiased in every way.

Read the remainer comments about the BBC on Twitter threads. Might give you a more balanced view.

 

[martcov]

It was the job of Cameron to say it how it was and not just try and scare people into voting remain.

Cameron’s fault for leave resulting in a mess? And you are neutral..

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Kamikaze revived in the form of Brexit.

The Brexit cult tries to stop any criticism of vacuous morons who offer empty destructive promises while having no solution.

God help us.

Are you talking the Remain campaigners or Leave campaigners or both here?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Astute]

Funny as when I say Farage is constantly in the news in the UK, I am told he is an irrelevance and I don’t know anything because I don’t live in the UK. People in the UK claiming they never see him on TV.

I spend more time reading and watching UK media. I was on SAT1 and Kabel1 German TV and quoted in the FNP recently about Brexit, so I certainly believe that part of the German media.

You probably wouldn’t have liked those interviews.

The German propaganda you mean.

Farage is nothing like he was. But if we don't leave the EU next month and this new party gets off the ground we will be in for a rough time. Then yes he will be a big part in the EU again.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The kind of thing an England football manager would get sacked for...but it is okay for President Tusk

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think that’s right. It’s the sort of thing you want to say to colleagues at work when they piss you off but you know you’ll get sacked do you smile and be the bigger person. He has a point but why not just say he’s frustrated that those who promoted it have let their country down and made it difficult for the whole of the Eu.

Interesting that some of the population have admired Farage for speaking his mind and fighting our corner but will be the ones taking Most offence.

It’s the new way though isn’t it with trump showing the way of speaking his mindi in politics rather than giving a politicians answer

I’ll gell tusk something though like astute says if hell is a real practical place on Earth then losing your pension has got to be close to that place and someone who made that happen needs to question if it’s wise to throw those stones in glass houses

 

[Astute]

Cameron’s fault for leave resulting in a mess? And you are neutral..

Are you going to defend Cameron now for buying votes by saying there would be a referendum if the Tories got in again?

 

[martcov]

The German propaganda you mean.

Farage is nothing like he was. But if we don't leave the EU next month and this new party gets off the ground we will be in for a rough time. Then yes he will be a big part in the EU again.

He claims over 5 Million views of his recent stage managed speech about article 24 of the GATT treaty.

 

[martcov]

Are you going to defend Cameron now for buying votes by saying there would be a referendum if the Tories got in again?

No.

 

[martcov]

A typical reply.

If someone kept giving you credit that you couldn't afford to pay back the blame should be shared between the person spending what they haven't got and the person who keeps loaning the money they know won't be coming back easily.

Agreed?

Look at how much Germany has been lending to the countries in the shite. They know it won't be coming back easily. But they need to keep the money flowing so their economy doesn't suffer. So the countries heavily in debt keep getting into more debt. Then you have Germany making billions in interest payments but the debt stays at astronomical levels.


Germany made billions on Greece’s debt crisis, Berlin confirms

Italy won't need a bailout?

Why Italy Could Be the Epicenter of the Next Financial Crisis

We are a big part of the EIB. We are owed billions by the EIB. If the EU is at risk because of Italy the EIB will most probably step in. We are tied to the EIB for at least 30 more years even if we leave the EU next month. So you know for sure that we wouldn't have to put even more money into the EIB if needed?


The rules change as needed.

Why and how would the EIB step in? They support projects. Which projects would they support in Italy if there were a crash?

 

[Astute]

Why and how would the EIB step in? They support projects. Which projects would they support in Italy if there were a crash?

The project of stopping the EU from a financial meltdown?

 

[Sick Boy]

A typical reply.

If someone kept giving you credit that you couldn't afford to pay back the blame should be shared between the person spending what they haven't got and the person who keeps loaning the money they know won't be coming back easily.

Agreed?

Look at how much Germany has been lending to the countries in the shite. They know it won't be coming back easily. But they need to keep the money flowing so their economy doesn't suffer. So the countries heavily in debt keep getting into more debt. Then you have Germany making billions in interest payments but the debt stays at astronomical levels.


Germany made billions on Greece’s debt crisis, Berlin confirms

Italy won't need a bailout?

Why Italy Could Be the Epicenter of the Next Financial Crisis

We are a big part of the EIB. We are owed billions by the EIB. If the EU is at risk because of Italy the EIB will most probably step in. We are tied to the EIB for at least 30 more years even if we leave the EU next month. So you know for sure that we wouldn't have to put even more money into the EIB if needed?


The rules change as needed.

What are you going on about? The EIB?

Anyway, it was agreed before the referendum that the UK would be exempt from funding Eurozone bailouts.