The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (140 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

Funny how NW critics bigotry and irrationality but defends your nonsense time and time again

Funny how you ignore the overt immigrants are scum posts, that do your own arguments no favours if they get associated with them.

 

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[Astute]

Deflection. Was he right in what he said?

How about looking at this and saying that you are still right?

Eilis O'Hanlon: Going to Hell in a handcart - inflammatory rhetoric an unforgivable lapse - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I fully agree.

I always thought that the idea of a debate was to look at the truth and not try to hide the truth. Some people seem to think that if they can win an argument on here that Brexit will be cancelled.

The future of my family depends on what happens....or doesn't happen next month. We are ready to go ahead with a property purchase in France. It includes a business for the wife which would be passed onto the kids in less than 10 years. I want remain as much as anyone else on here. As I have also said many times our plan has always been to tour Europe on retirement. That is planned for 8 years 9 months when our youngest is 18.

But none of this means I can ignore what is going on. I have to look at the whole picture. It will be a massive move for us. I am staying here. I would be flying out frequently. I have to consider much more than in or out. I need to k iw about my pensions. I need to know that my family can stay after investing a fair bit of money in an area of France that isn't doing well as it is where we want to be. I need to know the French economy isn't going to get worse. I am slightly worried on how the EU is going to do with the main countries looking like they are going into recession. But when I mention it on here I am just trying to make everything look bad.....

When you are young making a move isn't such a big thing. You still have many years to put right anything that goes wrong. But when you are at my stage in life you have to consider much more. If my finances take a hit now I won't have time to replace it. And although I have older kids and grandkids I also have children at junior school. I have to plan for the future. I can't put their future or my future at risk.

So yes I do look at everyone and every side closer than most. I don't trust any of them. What have any of them done to gain my trust? It amazes me that in 2019 we can have so many people in many areas of authority that have dodgy backgrounds and a dodgy past.

They are human astute and therefore have backgrounds and pasts. For me it’s there ability to do the job as integrity is seemingly not possible

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The knife crime has largely come following Blairs open door immigration policy. It mainly started with black gang members stabbing other black gang members in London and now it's become a wonderful norm amongst some of the City yoof to carry knives for both crime and protection. Great innit. Globalisation has led to a lot of the poverty and crime andaindeed homelessness ,we've just lost too many manufacturing jobs to the Far East. I agree with Clint on the decimation of the police numbers too.

Wow that’s bias right there. Evidence and facts

 

[skybluetony176]

How about looking at this and saying that you are still right?

Eilis O'Hanlon: Going to Hell in a handcart - inflammatory rhetoric an unforgivable lapse - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

The second paragraph isn’t even correct is it? Wasn’t it the Eurozone monetary union and IMF that “forced” Greece to a crippling austerity program in exchange for financial help not the EU?

 

[martcov]

How about looking at this and saying that you are still right?

Eilis O'Hanlon: Going to Hell in a handcart - inflammatory rhetoric an unforgivable lapse - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Well well. The whole time people like Farage and senior Conservatives have been throwing insults around and the EU has largely not answered back. The EU is constantly being referred to as the enemy or likened to Nazi Germany or EUSSR and the negotiations are compared with wartime experiences.

At last they say the bloody obvious and out come the victims. Tusk had to finally say what the EU governments think. He is their spokesperson. It also shows that the EU has nothing to lose as the negotiations are over.

 

[skybluetony176]

The knife crime has largely come following Blairs open door immigration policy. It mainly started with black gang members stabbing other black gang members in London and now it's become a wonderful norm amongst some of the City yoof to carry knives for both crime and protection. Great innit. Globalisation has led to a lot of the poverty and crime andaindeed homelessness ,we've just lost too many manufacturing jobs to the Far East. I agree with Clint on the decimation of the police numbers too.

Knife crime was steadily falling until 2014/15 so not sure how you work out that it’s somehow Blair’s fault. He left office in 2007. Cuts of 20000 police officers under Tory austerity is the only clear link, especially in London which was hardest hit by cuts.

 

[Sick Boy]

Funny how you ignore the overt immigrants are scum posts, that do your own arguments no favours if they get associated with them.

How you’ve managed to quote that post as being by me?!

 

[Sick Boy]

I fully agree.

I always thought that the idea of a debate was to look at the truth and not try to hide the truth. Some people seem to think that if they can win an argument on here that Brexit will be cancelled.

The future of my family depends on what happens....or doesn't happen next month. We are ready to go ahead with a property purchase in France. It includes a business for the wife which would be passed onto the kids in less than 10 years. I want remain as much as anyone else on here. As I have also said many times our plan has always been to tour Europe on retirement. That is planned for 8 years 9 months when our youngest is 18.

But none of this means I can ignore what is going on. I have to look at the whole picture. It will be a massive move for us. I am staying here. I would be flying out frequently. I have to consider much more than in or out. I need to k iw about my pensions. I need to know that my family can stay after investing a fair bit of money in an area of France that isn't doing well as it is where we want to be. I need to know the French economy isn't going to get worse. I am slightly worried on how the EU is going to do with the main countries looking like they are going into recession. But when I mention it on here I am just trying to make everything look bad.....

When you are young making a move isn't such a big thing. You still have many years to put right anything that goes wrong. But when you are at my stage in life you have to consider much more. If my finances take a hit now I won't have time to replace it. And although I have older kids and grandkids I also have children at junior school. I have to plan for the future. I can't put their future or my future at risk.

So yes I do look at everyone and every side closer than most. I don't trust any of them. What have any of them done to gain my trust? It amazes me that in 2019 we can have so many people in many areas of authority that have dodgy backgrounds and a dodgy past.

You do realise that FoM is going to be ending?

 

[skybluetony176]

Well well. The whole time people like Farage and senior Conservatives have been throwing insults around and the EU has largely not answered back. The EU is constantly being referred to as the enemy or likened to Nazi Germany or EUSSR and the negotiations are compared with wartime experiences.

At last they say the bloody obvious and out come the victims. Tusk had to finally say what the EU governments think. He is their spokesperson. It also shows that the EU has nothing to lose as the negotiations are over.

Funnily enough you won’t find well renowned neutral Astute criticising them for that. Joining in with it, yes. In a neutral way of course.

 

[Astute]

They are human astute and therefore have backgrounds and pasts. For me it’s there ability to do the job as integrity is seemingly not possible

But there is a difference between a good past and a not good past. It normally goes with how the person is now.

Look at those from the EU that are involved in the negotiations. I respect Barnier. I would like him on our side of the negotiations. He says what he needs to say. He is respectful to all. Yet he is strong. Then you look at the others. They are the total opposite to Barnier.

Barnier doesn't have a dodgy past. The others do.

 

[Sick Boy]

But there is a difference between a good past and a not good past. It normally goes with how the person is now.

Look at those from the EU that are involved in the negotiations. I respect Barnier. I would like him on our side of the negotiations. He says what he needs to say. He is respectful to all. Yet he is strong. Then you look at the others. They are the total opposite to Barnier.

Barnier doesn't have a dodgy past. The others do.

That is the case on the UK’s side as well then.

 

[Astute]

You do realise that FoM is going to be ending?

You do realise that nothing has been decided yet don't you? And you do know that even if the majority voted to leave that there is a large majority of MP's that don't want to leave?

So no. I can't see us leaving next month. And I can see some sort of deal whatever happens where FOM won't finish for at least 2 years if ever. And yes everything is in place if this happens. My problem would be me still being in England but my family having rights in France.

 

[Astute]

That is the case on the UK’s side as well then.

It depends who you are talking about and what they have done. What has May done? We don't need to go through what those at the top of the EU have done in the past. It has been done to death.

 

[Sick Boy]

You do realise that nothing has been decided yet don't you? And you do know that even if the majority voted to leave that there is a large majority of MP's that don't want to leave?

So no. I can't see us leaving next month. And I can see some sort of deal whatever happens where FOM won't finish for at least 2 years if ever. And yes everything is in place if this happens. My problem would be me still being in England but my family having rights in France.

I can’t remember if the same long term residential FoM rules would apply. You’d need to look at moving over there within 2 years IF there is a transitional period

 

[Sick Boy]

It depends who you are talking about and what they have done. What has May done? We don't need to go through what those at the top of the EU have done in the past. It has been done to death.

So the UK is judged upon one person but the EU a wide range, how neutral. I know you’re going to be keen to deflect from her but how about this for starters?

Home Office destroyed proof that could have spared Windrush generation from deportation

 

[Astute]

I can’t remember if the same long term residential FoM rules would apply. You’d need to look at moving over there within 2 years IF there is a transitional period

As I said all ready to get things moving once we know. It isn't what we had planned but our hands have been forced with the situation we are now in. Otherwise our long term plans are gone.

 

[Astute]

So the UK is judged upon one person but the EU a wide range, how neutral. I know you’re going to be keen to deflect from her but how about this for starters?

Home Office destroyed proof that could have spared Windrush generation from deportation

Why do you constantly accuse me of deflecting bad news away from the Tories yet have not once managed to show where I have done it?

Or are you still trying to deflect away the bad from the EU negotiators?

Or are you saying that the details were destroyed under orders from May? Because I haven't seen evidence of it so far. But yes someone somewhere is to blame. They use the excuse that they were moving to a smaller premises. But we have such a thing of computers these days where details could be held.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How you’ve managed to quote that post as being by me?!

I have no idea, but it's mildly amusing

 

[Grendel]

Funny how you ignore the overt immigrants are scum posts, that do your own arguments no favours if they get associated with them.

I have t seen anyone say they are scum in this discussion

 

[Grappa]

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It depends who you are talking about and what they have done. What has May done? We don't need to go through what those at the top of the EU have done in the past. It has been done to death.

She was an awful Home Secretary in terms of output. Oversaw the reduction In police numbers , threw away records leading to windrush scandal and more

 

[Grappa]

 

[Astute]

She was an awful Home Secretary in terms of output. Oversaw the reduction In police numbers , threw away records leading to windrush scandal and more

She threw them away?

Where have you seen that? As there should be a petition to get rid of her ASAP if that is true.

That would be as bad as Tusk being PM and not doing anything about a company that was thought to be dodgy that took the pensions of thousands of Poles. That is forgetting his son worked for them. Or with him being investigated with covering up a plane crash from 2010 when the then president and others got killed.

 

[Grendel]

She was an awful Home Secretary in terms of output. Oversaw the reduction In police numbers , threw away records leading to windrush scandal and more

It’s funny how you accuse others of believing press nonsense but then buy into the nonsense that she personally threw documents away

 

[chiefdave]

Where have you seen that? As there should be a petition to get rid of her ASAP if that is true.

Thought this was generally known. The landing cards, which were for many their only way of showing when they arrived in the country, were destroyed by the Home Office in October 2010 when May was Home Secretary.

 

[Grendel]

Thought this was generally known. The landing cards, which were for many their only way of showing when they arrived in the country, were destroyed by the Home Office in October 2010 when May was Home Secretary.

Why were they destroyed?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'll just correct that for you shall I, the vast majority of mainly Southern, yes highly educated doing all right crowd who don't want any changes to the status quo as the London Centric Metropolitan elite steer all possible revenue and funding to their preferred areas leaving vast areas of the country fucked over by globalisation and general apathy and struggling with the cost of living and lack of investment and people wonder why they have become fearful of mass immigration , low wages, rising crime and money spunked away to middle men in Brussels ......who gain them what exactly ?

Mate, while i understand and empathise with you railing against the 'metropolitan elite'; the rhetoric you're repeating is from another elite, an incredibly rich one that gives not a fuck about you or I.

 

[Astute]

Thought this was generally known. The landing cards, which were for many their only way of showing when they arrived in the country, were destroyed by the Home Office in October 2010 when May was Home Secretary.

Has she done it herself or even known about it?

There should be an enquiry on the matter that finds out exactly what happened. And I hope that we are not like the EU and actually do something on the findings of an enquiry. It is peoples lives that have been fucked up. Someone should have to answer for their actions.

But that is the Tories for you. I guess it was an easy way to falsify records by removing immigrants and putting the numbers out for everyone to see that they are doing a good job. I suppose they were seen as an easy target.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But there is a difference between a good past and a not good past. It normally goes with how the person is now.

Look at those from the EU that are involved in the negotiations. I respect Barnier. I would like him on our side of the negotiations. He says what he needs to say. He is respectful to all. Yet he is strong. Then you look at the others. They are the total opposite to Barnier.

Barnier doesn't have a dodgy past. The others do.

Course I just think we should judge others with far more grace than we do

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s funny how you accuse others of believing press nonsense but then buy into the nonsense that she personally threw documents away

It was her department of course she didn’t personally throw them away

 

[Grendel]

It was her department of course she didn’t personally throw them away

Why were they thrown away?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why were they thrown away?

Who knows disastrous for those affected though

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Also it wasn’t throwing them away as not putting them on computer that screwed our Caribbean brothers and sisters . It’s a national disgrace

 

[Astute]

Also it wasn’t throwing them away as not putting them on computer that screwed our Caribbean brothers and sisters . It’s a national disgrace

I have met several over the years. I used to call one Mum as she looked after me. They were all hard working and had to put up with a lot of shit when they arrived. People in their 30's and younger may have heard what it was like them days but it still won't register how bad it was. Bernard Manning was a top comedian in the day. A joke wasn't a joke if it didn't have racism in it. But it was seen as the norm and he would have a whole room in hysterics with his racist jokes. They had problems advancing in life just because they are black.

Those having problems are the ones who have never left the UK even for a holiday. They have never needed a passport so can't prove anything other than a lifetime of paying tax. This should be enough. But no the Tories tried to be sly.

Instead of going for easy targets owe should make rules on who should be removed. A jail sentence of say 6 months or more or 3 strikes and out. But we have those who come here to live and constantly commit crime who have nothing done yet those who have worked hard all their lives are targeted. The whole system is a joke.