The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (136 Viewers)

[martcov]

Don't think even Mart has done that. It's not the views being different that makes me think someone stupid, it's the view being stupid. If you voted Brexit because of immigration, you're ignoring that most comes from outside the EU and that we have just not exercised our ability to send immigrants back

Yes, I have said from the outset that it was a stupid decision. It couldn’t work and that the border would be the problem ( or rather Northern Ireland having voted remain would never accept Brexit because of the border problem). That is not saying the EU is perfect or that all leavers are stupid. Some obviously are. But, Astute has comprehension problems.

 

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[martcov]

So what have I said to do with this?

Yes absolutely none of it.

Just like all the leaders want to take power back from those who run the EU. It could and should be a lot better. Are you going to try and deny this? Because you are always at the front of the queue to have a go at those running the UK and at the front of the queue to defend the EU.

I deny that all leaders want to take power back from the EU. It is simply not true. Ask Macron.

I have said we should be reforming the EU with our neighbours. What part of that don’t you understand?

 

[martcov]

All leavers?

Of course not. But you like to twist it this way.

No, according to polls it was one of the main reasons. That doesn’t mean „all leavers“. I have never claimed „all leavers“. Twisting yet again.

 

[Astute]

I deny that all leaders want to take power back from the EU. It is simply not true. Ask Macron.

I have said we should be reforming the EU with our neighbours. What part of that don’t you understand?

Yes Macron is the most pro EU out of all of them.

EU must learn from Brexit 'trap' and reform, says French President Emmanuel Macron

 

[Astute]

No, according to polls it was one of the main reasons. That doesn’t mean „all leavers“. I have never claimed „all leavers“. Twisting yet again.

Look back. The reason said for people voting leave was immigration. It certainly never said a part of the reason. But of course you will make out differently. It is all you ever do.

 

[Sick Boy]

Numerous?

Nearly everything I said I could see happening has. And I haven't ever gone for the obvious.

So you don't understand what is Western Europe and what isn't Western Europe? Or are you just after the normal stupid point scoring?

Like the UK having the upper hand because it buys wine and cheese you mean?

Point scoring? What are you on about? I’m just calling out your generalisations. As you posted last night I was drinking a pint of tap water which was superior to anything you’d get in the UK, oh and it was in Southern Europe.

So can you name the countries?

 

[martcov]

Yes Macron is the most pro EU out of all of them.

EU must learn from Brexit 'trap' and reform, says French President Emmanuel Macron

Yes he wants a fiscal union. Which means more power to the EU.

 

[martcov]

Look back. The reason said for people voting leave was immigration. It certainly never said a part of the reason. But of course you will make out differently. It is all you ever do.

What are you on about? One of the reasons. Not the reason.

 

[tisza]

Yes Macron is the most pro EU out of all of them.

EU must learn from Brexit 'trap' and reform, says French President Emmanuel Macron

But most of his suggestions here would suggest again a centralization of powers at the expense of individual states.
Already wide concern over things like this in Visegrád group and others as well as the recent bilateral consensus between France and Germany over their approach to EU.
Even Junckers said EU had to pull back and let nation States govern

 

[Astute]

Like the UK having the upper hand because it buys wine and cheese you mean?

Point scoring? What are you on about? I’m just calling out your generalisations. As you posted last night I was drinking a pint of tap water which was superior to anything you’d get in the UK, oh and it was in Southern Europe.

So can you name the countries?

Cheese and wine?

10 points for you for keep coming out with a stupid line.

 

[Astute]

But most of his suggestions here would suggest again a centralization of powers at the expense of individual states.
Already wide concern over things like this in Visegrád group and others as well as the recent bilateral consensus between France and Germany over their approach to EU.
Even Junckers said EU had to pull back and let nation States govern

Power given back to the people?

What they say and what they do are normally different.

 

[Astute]

Yes he wants a fiscal union. Which means more power to the EU.

And as usual you miss out 99 out of 100 words and use the few left to prove a point your way.

 

[Astute]

What are you on about? One of the reasons. Not the reason.

So immigration is now reduced to only one of the reasons. Progress.

The main reason was the lies. Can't believe you missed an opportunity to say so yourself.

 

[Astute]

Point scoring? What are you on about? I’m just calling out your generalisations. As you posted last night I was drinking a pint of tap water which was superior to anything you’d get in the UK, oh and it was in Southern Europe.

So can you name the countries?

They must be lying....

Can You Drink the Tap Water in Europe?

In general, Western Europe has safe tap water and Eastern Europe is a place to be wary of the water.

Yes that was the article. And they all say similar.

You would think it was me who brought up drinking tap water and not a fellow remain at any cost. Why not question him?

 

[martcov]

So immigration is now reduced to only one of the reasons. Progress.

The main reason was the lies. Can't believe you missed an opportunity to say so yourself.

Not according to the leavers interviewed. They haven’t copped on yet that they were lied to. I think the farcical march might wake a few up as to the quality of Farage‘s leadership.

 

[martcov]

And as usual you miss out 99 out of 100 words and use the few left to prove a point your way.

No. That is what he wants. He has said it often enough.

 

[martcov]

They must be lying....

Can You Drink the Tap Water in Europe?

In general, Western Europe has safe tap water and Eastern Europe is a place to be wary of the water.

Yes that was the article. And they all say similar.

You would think it was me who brought up drinking tap water and not a fellow remain at any cost. Why not question him?

Fellow remain? I thought you voted remain?

 

[tisza]

Yes he wants a fiscal union. Which means more power to the EU.

be about the quickest way to break EU. Can't see Italy, Greece or Visegrad even bothering to put that to the test

 

[Sick Boy]

Cheese and wine?

10 points for you for keep coming out with a stupid line.

Hahaha you’re the one who used to go on about it, not me, so give yourself 100 points.

 

[Sick Boy]

They must be lying....

Can You Drink the Tap Water in Europe?

In general, Western Europe has safe tap water and Eastern Europe is a place to be wary of the water.

Yes that was the article. And they all say similar.

You would think it was me who brought up drinking tap water and not a fellow remain at any cost. Why not question him?

It looks to me as though the majority of countries in the EU in Eastern Europe have safe drinking water then?

 

[Astute]

It looks to me as though the majority of countries in the EU in Eastern Europe have safe drinking water then?

You mean some cities and districts are OK in some of the countries.

So why do you keep asking me to name the countries when I didn't bring up the subject? Just another stupid point in this thread.

 

[Astute]

Hahaha you’re the one who used to go on about it, not me, so give yourself 100 points.

Cheese and wine?

More like German cars.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

where do you think the roots of Brexit started?
Back then over 70% (far higher than current demand for 2nd referendum)wanted a referendum on Lisbon (which several other countries gave their voters). Another example where Parliament decided not to keep its election promises and decided the people did not warrant a say when they wanted one. Lead to lowest EU approval in UK of around 30% by 2010 and barely recovered to 37% when Cameron gambled on the referendum.

Ah right. Gordon Brown press ganged Cameron into calling a referendum 6 years in the future

 

[tisza]

Ah right. Gordon Brown press ganged Cameron into calling a referendum 6 years in the future

You can't seem to grasp that background to Brexit isn't some new phenomena created 3 years ago.
Historical apathy to Europe goes back much further on a cross party voter basis. 1975 referendum Labour was split on remaining in EEC. Labour conference in 1975 overwhelmingly voted to leave. 1983 election they campaigned on taking Britain out of Europe. In fact until Blair & new Labour came along Labour was basically an anti EEC party.
You can decry the calling of a referendum and ignore a general UK apathy towards the EU that has lasted basically up until the referendum was called. Where were all these passionate views on Europe in the 2014 European elections when only about 35% bothered to vote. Maybe this new found passion on the issue would have been better directed through the ballot box. Too many people have found the Euro religion far too late to make a difference.
Perhaps if Brown had kept Labour promise over a referendum we wouldn't be in this current situation.
Cameron and other politicians will be judged and found wanting as to how badly they read the British electorate - maybe they expected the usual antipathy of the British public and not the highly charged issue it turned into.
Brexit has always had a touch of inevitability about it just the Captain hindsight of today choose to ignore it and concentrate on blaming others rather than admitting they should have worked harder and longer about preventing a situation all parties have been responsible in creating.

 

[Captain Dart]

The result of the by-election will be interesting, yes.

Petition to recall her is in progress, runs 6 weeks to May 1st.
How a recall petition to remove Peterborough MP Fiona Onasanya will work
Public notice of petition to remove the MP for Peterborough Fiona Onasanya

 

[martcov]

be about the quickest way to break EU. Can't see Italy, Greece or Visegrad even bothering to put that to the test

The contrary. The EU would have to introduce a transfer system as one point of having a fiscal union would be to strengthen the Euro. This would help those countries. The countries that won’t like it are the ones that attract companies with lower taxes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You can't seem to grasp that background to Brexit isn't some new phenomena created 3 years ago.
Historical apathy to Europe goes back much further on a cross party voter basis. 1975 referendum Labour was split on remaining in EEC. Labour conference in 1975 overwhelmingly voted to leave. 1983 election they campaigned on taking Britain out of Europe. In fact until Blair & new Labour came along Labour was basically an anti EEC party.
You can decry the calling of a referendum and ignore a general UK apathy towards the EU that has lasted basically up until the referendum was called. Where were all these passionate views on Europe in the 2014 European elections when only about 35% bothered to vote. Maybe this new found passion on the issue would have been better directed through the ballot box. Too many people have found the Euro religion far too late to make a difference.
Perhaps if Brown had kept Labour promise over a referendum we wouldn't be in this current situation.
Cameron and other politicians will be judged and found wanting as to how badly they read the British electorate - maybe they expected the usual antipathy of the British public and not the highly charged issue it turned into.
Brexit has always had a touch of inevitability about it just the Captain hindsight of today choose to ignore it and concentrate on blaming others rather than admitting they should have worked harder and longer about preventing a situation all parties have been responsible in creating.

Apathy?

 

[Captain Dart]

Apathy?

You say apathy I say antipathy, lets give the whole thing up.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can't seem to grasp that background to Brexit isn't some new phenomena created 3 years ago.
Historical apathy to Europe goes back much further on a cross party voter basis. 1975 referendum Labour was split on remaining in EEC. Labour conference in 1975 overwhelmingly voted to leave. 1983 election they campaigned on taking Britain out of Europe. In fact until Blair & new Labour came along Labour was basically an anti EEC party.
You can decry the calling of a referendum and ignore a general UK apathy towards the EU that has lasted basically up until the referendum was called. Where were all these passionate views on Europe in the 2014 European elections when only about 35% bothered to vote. Maybe this new found passion on the issue would have been better directed through the ballot box. Too many people have found the Euro religion far too late to make a difference.
Perhaps if Brown had kept Labour promise over a referendum we wouldn't be in this current situation.
Cameron and other politicians will be judged and found wanting as to how badly they read the British electorate - maybe they expected the usual antipathy of the British public and not the highly charged issue it turned into.
Brexit has always had a touch of inevitability about it just the Captain hindsight of today choose to ignore it and concentrate on blaming others rather than admitting they should have worked harder and longer about preventing a situation all parties have been responsible in creating.

There aren’t many religiously devoted to the EU but what’s quite clear is that (Mrs May’s) Brexit is shit and I would rather stay than have it.

What has surprised me more is the real venom some have towards the EU (yourself included), as some horribly oppressive entity that has caused more harm than decades of neoliberalism and austerity. Then there is this growing trend of blaming Labour for Cameron’s mistake. The background is that Britain has always been a bit self righteous, a bit xenophobic and very static in its thinking.

So maybe Brexit was inevitable, even though we were warned in 75 that this would be political as well as economic union. But I think Britain needs to look itself in the mirror more than Europe

 

[martcov]

There aren’t many religiously devoted to the EU but what’s quite clear is that (Mrs May’s) Brexit is shit and I would rather stay than have it.

What has surprised me more is the real venom some have towards the EU (yourself included), as some horribly oppressive entity that has caused more harm than decades of neoliberalism and austerity. Then there is this growing trend of blaming Labour for Cameron’s mistake. The background is that Britain has always been a bit self righteous, a bit xenophobic and very static in its thinking.

So maybe Brexit was inevitable, even though we were warned in 75 that this would be political as well as economic union. But I think Britain needs to look itself in the mirror more than Europe

Let’s see who profits from Brexit. The old men walking along the coast following a well known bell end? No.

These people?The Disaster Capitalism Club: Vote Leave Backers Who Made Billions from Brexit

 

[Sick Boy]

There aren’t many religiously devoted to the EU but what’s quite clear is that (Mrs May’s) Brexit is shit and I would rather stay than have it.

What has surprised me more is the real venom some have towards the EU (yourself included), as some horribly oppressive entity that has caused more harm than decades of neoliberalism and austerity. Then there is this growing trend of blaming Labour for Cameron’s mistake. The background is that Britain has always been a bit self righteous, a bit xenophobic and very static in its thinking.

So maybe Brexit was inevitable, even though we were warned in 75 that this would be political as well as economic union. But I think Britain needs to look itself in the mirror more than Europe

The most cringing bit of it all is those who go on about wanting to be an independent country and free of oppression. It’s like they’re completely out of touch with the country’s history and reality.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Let’s see who profits from Brexit. The old men walking along the coast following a well known bell end? No.

These people?The Disaster Capitalism Club: Vote Leave Backers Who Made Billions from Brexit

I think a way of resolving it could be to drop the backstop in exchange for a ‘UK only’ line at the airport where Merkel points and laughs

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The most cringing bit of it all is those who go on about wanting to be an independent country and free of oppression. It’s like they’re completely out of touch with the country’s history and reality.

When were we last not sovereign? Err...Roman Britain?

 

[Sick Boy]

Let’s see who profits from Brexit. The old men walking along the coast following a well known bell end? No.

These people?The Disaster Capitalism Club: Vote Leave Backers Who Made Billions from Brexit

Come on I’m sure the man of the people will accompany them all of the way until London - haha

 

[RegTheDonk]

...... No surprise that the killer in NZ supports Brexit....

I know you are pro EU but that is a disgusting reference. What are you really trying to say Mart?