The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (173 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Tories lie. Just like most politicians. They say they will do one thing then frequently do the opposite.

They are supposed to stand for their constituents. But it hasn't happened.

You know what I think that’s unfair. How can you in good faith forget all you know and take a decision that you know will adversely impact most if not all of your constituents? It’s not possible to just up and leave without major consequences

 

---

[martcov]

I'm of the opinion that they are all sneaky disingenuous little twats, using the cloak of incompetence to further personal, political agendas and we must put a stop to it by way of revolution.

If we don’t leave, we save the country. Brexit has already cost us and all signs are that it will continue to cost us. We gain nothing by leaving. We are in a weak position to do trade deals as everyone knows we are a distressed trading partner. EU Migration has dropped, but ROW migration has increased. We have lost agencies and will have to replace them at our cost. The poorer areas have lost EU funding, with no absolute guarantee that future money will be directed to them. We lose frictionless trade with our biggest trading partner. We lose guaranteed rights.

We gain blue passports and a commemorative 50p.

For all this, we have the disadvantage that our parliament is clogged by Brexit and our country is split for the foreseeable future.

Ask yourself why do people hate an organisation that we are part of have helped develop, and during our membership of it have become the fifth largest economy in the world? Most people know very little about the EU under normal circumstances. Their main source of information over four decades has been the popular press or SM targeting.

Farage and co take a large amount of the blame for this mess, but are cashing in on it whilst the country is being wrecked.

Notice how Tommy was attacking the press and praising Trump. The British press is largely right wing, but he is following the agenda of the USA think tanks that support him, and of Bannon. The USA has nothing to do with our debate on the future of the UK, but they want us in their orbit, not the EU. So-called patriots backing the aims of a foreign power. Money talks.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If we don’t leave, we save the country. Brexit has already cost us and all signs are that it will continue to cost us. We gain nothing by leaving. We are in a weak position to do trade deals as everyone knows we are a distressed trading partner. EU Migration has dropped, but ROW migration has increased. We have lost agencies and will have to replace them at our cost. The poorer areas have lost EU funding, with no absolute guarantee that future money will be directed to them. We lose frictionless trade with our biggest trading partner. We lose guaranteed rights.

We gain blue passports and a commemorative 50p.

For all this, we have the disadvantage that our parliament is clogged by Brexit and our country is split for the foreseeable future.

Ask yourself why do people hate an organisation that we are part of have helped develop, and during our membership of it have become the fifth largest economy in the world? Most people know very little about the EU under normal circumstances. Their main source of information over four decades has been the popular press or SM targeting.

Farage and co take a large amount of the blame for this mess, but are cashing in on it whilst the country is being wrecked.

Notice how Tommy was attacking the press and praising Trump. The British press is largely right wing, but he is following the agenda of the USA think tanks that support him, and of Bannon. The USA has nothing to do with our debate on the future of the UK, but they want us in their orbit, not the EU. So-called patriots backing the aims of a foreign power. Money talks.

There are positives to leaving but are a risk and will take many years to come to fruition. They will also be at the expense of many of the people who are taken in by the wolves in sheep clothing. Farage is a salesman and a member of the elite

 

[Sick Boy]

Liars, snakes and cowards but also a very odd looking bunch, a bit 'carnival sideshow' or League Of Gentlemen.

Edward and Tubbs would definitely be Brexit voters

 

[Astute]

Hahaha yeah it’s always everyone else’s fault, why is it that leavers refuse to accept responsibility and have to blame others

Here is the problem we won't get over quickly. Remainers love to blame leavers for everything. Leavers like to blame Remainers for everything. It is like an entrenched battle. La La La my side has done nothing wrong and I will prove it with lies/misinformation. It does nothing for debate. It does nothing for finding a solution.

Cameron, a Europhile, started off the whole thing by offering the referendum if the Tories got in again. So it isn't just leavers that are to blame for this whole thing. Yes a lot of leave MP's didn't have a clue. Neither did a lot of remain MP's.

Those who stand out for me are the ones that thought the EU would be happy to make it easy for us to leave. They have made it difficult from the start yet many didn't even notice. They campaigned for leave still and only just moved into the side of the May/EU deal.

 

[Astute]

There are positives to leaving but are a risk and will take many years to come to fruition. They will also be at the expense of many of the people who are taken in by the wolves in sheep clothing. Farage is a salesman and a member of the elite

Farage is an opportunistic and has fully taken advantage of the situation. He has made a good living and has a pension from it that many could only dream of having as a wage for working full time. One of the faults with the EU that has to be paid for. And paid for many years. Just one of the reasons the EU needs to keep us paying into the system however this mess is solved.

If we get a free trade agreement it won't be free. We will have to pay billions of pounds each year for the privilege.

 

[Sick Boy]

Here is the problem we won't get over quickly. Remainers love to blame leavers for everything. Leavers like to blame Remainers for everything. It is like an entrenched battle. La La La my side has done nothing wrong and I will prove it with lies/misinformation. It does nothing for debate. It does nothing for finding a solution.

Cameron, a Europhile, started off the whole thing by offering the referendum if the Tories got in again. So it isn't just leavers that are to blame for this whole thing. Yes a lot of leave MP's didn't have a clue. Neither did a lot of remain MP's.

Those who stand out for me are the ones that thought the EU would be happy to make it easy for us to leave. They have made it difficult from the start yet many didn't even notice. They campaigned for leave still and only just moved into the side of the May/EU deal.

In reality the average Remainer or Leaver has little influence in any of this and it’s to do with the lack of preparation and the complexity of leaving that is mostly responsible.

I also blame those who thought the EU would roll over and give into the UK’s demands, it was always wishful thinking and it’s not unsurprising that the EU is going to act in its best interests in relation to a 3rd country.

It’s depressing that there were options available in relation to controlling FoM, such as registering migrants upon arrival and only being eligible for healthcare with a job, having to have a job within 3 months, ensuring workers are not paid in line with their original country’s wages, like Frances does etc etc.

However to claim it’s the fault of ex politicians (those in the picture) is absurd, apart from Cameron, who I think thought he would be in a coalition again and wouldn’t actually have to hold the referendum.

 

[Astute]

You know what I think that’s unfair. How can you in good faith forget all you know and take a decision that you know will adversely impact most if not all of your constituents? It’s not possible to just up and leave without major consequences

Did I say Brexit?

Brexit would only come into it if they said they wanted one thing and did something different. But if they have gone against their constituents wishes without saying they wouldn't it wouldn't be a lie.

You are not a youngster. You have a few miles on the clock now. You will know that MP's lie.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Farage is an opportunistic and has fully taken advantage of the situation. He has made a good living and has a pension from it that many could only dream of having as a wage for working full time. One of the faults with the EU that has to be paid for. And paid for many years. Just one of the reasons the EU needs to keep us paying into the system however this mess is solved.

If we get a free trade agreement it won't be free. We will have to pay billions of pounds each year for the privilege.

Yep of course we would need to pay but it costs us far more to not be a member of the single market

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Did I say Brexit?

Brexit would only come into it if they said they wanted one thing and did something different. But if they have gone against their constituents wishes without saying they wouldn't it wouldn't be a lie.

You are not a youngster. You have a few miles on the clock now. You will know that MP's lie.

No more so than the rest of us and normally they explain why. But of course it’s mucg easier to point out the faults in others than face our own

 

[Astute]

Yep of course we would need to pay but it costs us far more to not be a member of the single market

Tell that to those who want to leave the EU but have free trade with them because we won't have to pay billions of pounds each year into the EU each year.

 

[martcov]

Farage is an opportunistic and has fully taken advantage of the situation. He has made a good living and has a pension from it that many could only dream of having as a wage for working full time. One of the faults with the EU that has to be paid for. And paid for many years. Just one of the reasons the EU needs to keep us paying into the system however this mess is solved.

If we get a free trade agreement it won't be free. We will have to pay billions of pounds each year for the privilege.

Exactly. We’ll end up paying whilst having no say. With a USA trade deal we will do what the USA wants and won’t have a say. Same with China.

 

[Astute]

Exactly. We’ll end up paying whilst having no say. With a USA trade deal we will do what the USA wants and won’t have a say. Same with China.

Have I ever said differently?

And we don't have much of a say. The EU also has the power to overrule everyone as we have seen. They don't even keep to rules and regulations like they make sure nearly everyone else has to. So we have to do as the EU says. And they are not a country that we have trade with.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Tell that to those who want to leave the EU but have free trade with them because we won't have to pay billions of pounds each year into the EU each year.

We have tried and failed

 

[martcov]

Have I ever said differently?

And we don't have much of a say. The EU also has the power to overrule everyone as we have seen. They don't even keep to rules and regulations like they make sure nearly everyone else has to. So we have to do as the EU says. And they are not a country that we have trade with.

The EU is not a country. It is 28 countries including us. The other 27 countries decide what now happens. They do have rules and they do keep to them in general. You quote the exceptions.

 

[martcov]

Have I ever said differently?

And we don't have much of a say. The EU also has the power to overrule everyone as we have seen. They don't even keep to rules and regulations like they make sure nearly everyone else has to. So we have to do as the EU says. And they are not a country that we have trade with.

How does the EU overrule itself?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I have tried to explain but some don't want to listen.

Yes I am but it isn't what I want or what I think is best for us. And we need to do something to bring an end to this debacle. The May deal although not ideal and disliked by most would have been a way out with the least harm. But it is against what both sides want. Not in and not out.

Yes so put no deal against Remain and let the battle of idiot vs common sense commence

 

[Astute]

How does the EU overrule itself?

With Selmayr for instance where only 10 MEP'S wanted him to keep the position he shouldn't have got and hundreds voted for him to go.

You say generally keep to the rules and regulations. They should keep to all of them. It makes me wonder how many times they have broke laws, rules and regulations when we haven't found out. If it was the British government that had broken laws, rules and regulations you would be spitting feathers. But you make out that it is OK because generally they keep to them.

 

[Astute]

Yes so put no deal against Remain and let the battle of idiot vs common sense commence

So those who want out of the EU are idiots?

Here we go again. So those who want out but want trade agreements and the rest would have to vote for what they don't want and would be an idiot if they disagreed with you.

 

[martcov]

So those who want out of the EU are idiots?

Here we go again. So those who want out but want trade agreements and the rest would have to vote for what they don't want and would be an idiot if they disagreed with you.

The problem is that we have not even got the 40 roll over deals that we were promised. Puffin Pie from the Faroes, or Chilean wine won’t make up for reducing our domestic market from 500 m to 65 m. If you count our weakened bargaining position in negotiations with China, USA and India to that, then yes, leaving the EU is an idiotic decision.

Did you see the clips of the march yesterday? Thugs with cans or beakers of beer in the hand, pushing police and journalists, burning flags and a of them couple insulting MPs.The Tommy crowd of balding potbellied white men? IQs the size of their bovver boots.

Seems they treated the march as an excuse for a piss up and to screech insults at people whilst being wound up by dubious people.

 

[martcov]

With Selmayr for instance where only 10 MEP'S wanted him to keep the position he shouldn't have got and hundreds voted for him to go.

You say generally keep to the rules and regulations. They should keep to all of them. It makes me wonder how many times they have broke laws, rules and regulations when we haven't found out. If it was the British government that had broken laws, rules and regulations you would be spitting feathers. But you make out that it is OK because generally they keep to them.

Of course the EU is not perfect, but neither is the UK. You pillory one, but not the other and then claim to be neutral.

We’ve been through Selmayr. We agree that it was a scam. Virtually everyone else does. But, he has a contract of employment and is counted as capable. So, I don’t know how this will pan out. He was taken on to guide the EU civil servants through Brexit. I think we will have a better picture after the EU elections when there is a new EC President. It still doesn’t effect the workings of the EU in any major sense. A red herring. The top civil servant in the UK is appointed by the PM, so we don’t even get to have a discussion as we did with Selmayr. Seems the EU is more transparent in this case.

 

[Ian1779]

Edward and Tubbs would definitely be Brexit voters

Harvey and Val have FBPE written all over them.

 

[Ashdown]

The problem is that we have not even got the 40 roll over deals that we were promised. Puffin Pie from the Faroes, or Chilean wine won’t make up for reducing our domestic market from 500 m to 65 m. If you count our weakened bargaining position in negotiations with China, USA and India to that, then yes, leaving the EU is an idiotic decision.

Did you see the clips of the march yesterday? Thugs with cans or beakers of beer in the hand, pushing police and journalists, burning flags and a of them couple insulting MPs.The Tommy crowd of balding potbellied white men? IQs the size of their bovver boots.

Seems they treated the march as an excuse for a piss up and to screech insults at people whilst being wound up by dubious people.

Pearls cafe mate by the specials.....it's all a load of bollox and bollox to it all......you're a fucking mental case. Go and groom out your ponytail you daft hippy, stop repeating the same old shit on every page !

 

[Astute]

The problem is that we have not even got the 40 roll over deals that we were promised. Puffin Pie from the Faroes, or Chilean wine won’t make up for reducing our domestic market from 500 m to 65 m. If you count our weakened bargaining position in negotiations with China, USA and India to that, then yes, leaving the EU is an idiotic decision.

Did you see the clips of the march yesterday? Thugs with cans or beakers of beer in the hand, pushing police and journalists, burning flags and a of them couple insulting MPs.The Tommy crowd of balding potbellied white men? IQs the size of their bovver boots.

Seems they treated the march as an excuse for a piss up and to screech insults at people whilst being wound up by dubious people.

And what has this got to do with the comment that we should have another referendum where it is only remain or leave without a deal and anyone who didn't vote remain is an idiot?

 

[martcov]

Pearls cafe mate by the specials.....it's all a load of bollox and bollox to it all......you're a fucking mental case. Go and groom out your ponytail you daft hippy, stop repeating the same old shit on every page !

What? You repeat the same dumb insults on every page. Never say anything sensible. Never a good argument. Turned your anti foreigner stance into wanting to save nature. Yeah. Right. Pity you missed out on the day out. Would have felt at home amongst the people at Tommy’s lecture.

 

[Astute]

Of course the EU is not perfect, but neither is the UK. You pillory one, but not the other and then claim to be neutral.

You wonder why I call you out to be a bullshitter then you make a comment like this. Or even yesterday where final meant final unless it was leave where we could have another go in a few years. But when I pointed out your error you made out I didn't understand final.

So who in the UK do I not constantly have a go at? And let's not twist it today. Why can't you keep to the truth instead of coming out with false accusations?

 

[Ashdown]

What? You repeat the same dumb insults on every page. Never say anything sensible. Never a good argument. Turned your anti foreigner stance into wanting to save nature. Yeah. Right. Pity you missed out on the day out. Would have felt at home amongst the people at Tommy’s lecture.

More pointless and ridiculous insults. I own a house in the EU or two if you count the UK, do you ? Oh and passably speak 3 languages. You pick and choose what you want to read but repeat the same old mantra, it's ok, we all get you now, no need for more.

 

[martcov]

You wonder why I call you out to be a bullshitter then you make a comment like this. Or even yesterday where final meant final unless it was leave where we could have another go in a few years. But when I pointed out your error you made out I didn't understand final.

So who in the UK do I not constantly have a go at? And let's not twist it today. Why can't you keep to the truth instead of coming out with false accusations?

You say that the EU doesn’t keep to it’s rules. When have you pilloried the UK for not keeping to it’s rules?

I explained the difficulty with the word „final“ in this case. But that my sentiment is that it should be final in the sense that it is off the agenda for the next few years whichever way it goes. That is not the same as saying I want another referendum in a few years, as you chose to interpret it. It means that I want it over with no plans for a rerun.

 

[martcov]

More pointless and ridiculous insults. I own a house in the EU or two if you count the UK, do you ? Oh and passably speak 3 languages. You pick and choose what you want to read but repeat the same old mantra, it's ok, we all get you now, no need for more.

So do I. But I am not for restricting FOM with the excuse that I am protecting UK nature... whilst at the same time having a home in someone else‘s EU country.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

May's deal is becoming a bit like the Police Academy series of films...

 

[Ashdown]

So do I. But I am not for restricting FOM with the excuse that I am protecting UK nature... whilst at the same time having a home in someone else‘s EU country.

FOM wouldn't be so bad if there was an equal balance of ins and outs but we both know that the UK population continues to grow quicker than the infrastructure can cope with, not all from the EU of course but the fact still remains. Oh and it's not an excuse at all to consider the environment, wildlife, pollution, fresh water issues, quality of life for people already here, transport gridlock etc

 

[Deleted member 5849]

FOM wouldn't be so bad if there was an equal balance of ins and outs but we both know that the UK population continues to grow quicker than the infrastructure can cope with, not all from the EU of course but the fact still remains. Oh and it's not an excuse at all to consider the environment, wildlife, pollution, fresh water issues, quality of life for people already here, transport gridlock etc

Half of us will be dead without freedom of movement. Can't get a doctor's appointment as it is. We'll have to pay more cash too, as there won't be as much coming into the economy from said economic migrants.

And the option is there for people to sod off if they want more space around them. If the EU ain't to your taste, there's nice farming patches in Burkina Faso, I believe...

 

[Sick Boy]

FOM wouldn't be so bad if there was an equal balance of ins and outs but we both know that the UK population continues to grow quicker than the infrastructure can cope with, not all from the EU of course but the fact still remains. Oh and it's not an excuse at all to consider the environment, wildlife, pollution, fresh water issues, quality of life for people already here, transport gridlock etc

If the economy remains successful in the long term the demand for migrants will still be there, both skilled and unskilled. For the people in charge Brexit was nothing to do with reducing immigration.

 

[Ashdown]

Half of us will be dead without freedom of movement. Can't get a doctor's appointment as it is. We'll have to pay more cash too, as there won't be as much coming into the economy from said economic migrants.

And the option is there for people to sod off if they want more space around them. If the EU ain't to your taste, there's nice farming patches in Burkina Faso, I believe...

There's a difference between FOM and controlled immigration. As for sod off elsewhere if you're not happy with a burgeoning population that encroaches on quality of life for many, that's so poor.........Plus you already know the mathematics as regards tax receipts and impact and extra costs on services and infrastructure but you never admit it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There's a difference between FOM and controlled immigration. As for sod off elsewhere if you're not happy with a burgeoning population that encroaches on quality of life for many, that's so poor.........Plus you already know the mathematics as regards tax receipts and impact and extra costs on services and infrastructure but you never admit it.

I do know. I know there's a net benefit from economic migrants. There's a net benefit from Freedom of Movement.

It isn't poor. Why not go to Burkina Faso? Personally I like the quality of life that's been improved, thanks to immigration.