The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (25 Viewers)

[martcov]

And yet again you come out with rubbish then say it is me that has embarrassing comprehension problems.

Are you now going to state that it is either Mays deal or no deal or remain in the EU? Because it is what you have said. I have stated it won't be a no deal. Remain is a possibility. May's deal is about dead.

Comprehensive problems? No. I have a mind of my own and I don't have an agenda to follow like yourself. I deal with facts and not fantasies.

The word is comprehension. You have obviously misunderstood that as well.

 

---

[martcov]

I'm not exactly wrong, we are in agreement, it is the fault of our successive governments but I and many others hope we may see a turning point now.

The turning point is that EU migrants are leaving and ROW migrants are arriving. I don’t think that helps in any way. The figures are not going down, so if you are leaver because of migration, I think you will be disappointed. At least with the EU it was reciprocal.

 

[Grendel]

The turning point is that EU migrants are leaving and ROW migrants are arriving. I don’t think that helps in any way. The figures are not going down, so if you are leaver because of migration, I think you will be disappointed. At least with the EU it was reciprocal.

So the movements in and out of the Eu to the uk balanced?

 

[martcov]

Absolutely agree with this.
If MPs resign the party whip then they should trigger a by election automatically.
An extraordinary abuse of the democratic principle when you are elected on one platform then decide not to fulfil the "contract" but can carry on under a false flag.

A bit like the ERG who were elected as Tories, but have joined together to block the deal. A party within a party.

 

[martcov]

So the movements in and out of the Eu to the uk balanced?

No. But the number of EU migrants is declining and would have carried on doing so as things improve in some of the poorer countries.

 

[Grendel]

A bit like the ERG who were elected as Tories, but have joined together to block the deal. A party within a party.

So now you want a deal to leave?

 

[Grendel]

No. But the number of EU migrants is declining and would have carried on doing so as things improve in some of the poorer countries.

Would it fuck

 

[martcov]

See Tory backlash starts. Grieve's local party (which was leave) passed a vote of no confidence last night in a move to deselect him for next General election.

So fellow Remain MPs want to suspend local party.

Any form of accountability some of these Remain Tories are not prepared to circumvent? Surely constituents should be allowed to choose a candidate that represents their views - leave areas should be allowed leave MPs and the same for Remain areas.

I know some Labour CLAs have been suspended for different reasons in past but if a local electorate cannot select its own candidates what's the point of a democracy?
One of the drawbacks of list systems and other PR systems is the limitation of input from local associations.

They would then be delegates not MPs.

 

[martcov]

Would it fuck

It is happening now.

 

[Grendel]

It is happening now.

Awesome can I see some factual evidence
Please

 

[martcov]

So now you want a deal to leave?

No, but I think there should be PR in order that the ERG can stand under their own name. A bit of a joke to have two major groups in one party. Both with different views.

 

[martcov]

It could begin a process of fixing the issue. The next step would be controlling all incoming arrivals.

How? How do you control a huge number of tourists without making them feel unwelcome and having huge costs?

 

[martcov]

Awesome can I see some factual evidence
Please

EU immigration to the UK

 

[martcov]

Awesome can I see some factual evidence
Please

You’ll like this:

My Romanian mate who has a hotel says they think Brexit is great and are hoping that some Romanian hotel workers are coming back. They need trained staff, even better if they speak other languages. His problem has been getting trained staff and there is a general lack of young people to help the economy.

He reckons their economy is growing too slowly because of this.

Sorry for mentioning my Romanian mate.

 

[Grendel]

EU immigration to the UK

That’s zero evidence though isn’t it. You stated that the poor countries are getting richer so therefore there would be an outflow from the uk back to the native homelands. That’s the figure I’m referring g to. There is no evidence of that is there and every time a new country enters the party a migration flood occurs. This flood then obviously reduces as those who want the benefit leap immediately.

Full fact is sponsored by eu funding by the way

 

[tisza]

They would then be delegates not MPs.

point being lists in most countries are drawn from a centralized source which can overlook look local interests.

 

[tisza]

No, but I think there should be PR in order that the ERG can stand under their own name. A bit of a joke to have two major groups in one party. Both with different views.

on thin ice with this one as it's a singular issue the ERG is based on. Conservative on all other issues. However Brexit is resolved the ERG will disappear.

 

[tisza]

You’ll like this:

My Romanian mate who has a hotel says they think Brexit is great and are hoping that some Romanian hotel workers are coming back. They need trained staff, even better if they speak other languages. His problem has been getting trained staff and there is a general lack of young people to help the economy.

He reckons their economy is growing too slowly because of this.

Sorry for mentioning my Romanian mate.

Got something similar here. Currently living about 100 metres from a famous cakeshop/bakery in Budapest that is closing as it can't get "patissiers" or specialist bakers as they are all in Germany working in lower skilled catering jobs on far more money.
Spoke with the owner. business been in his family for over 150 years but just can't get the skilled labour.
poland offering all sorts of incentives to bring their better skilled labour back from UK.
Hungarian economy being held back by "brain drain" to Germany in particular. I co-own a small hotel in eastern Hungary. Village population around 3500 and i know of at least 60 people (some whole families) from that one village that are now living in North of Scotland primarily in hotel/restaurant trade. We needed a new Head Chef and struggled to find a "young" one as they are all in the EU and we can't compete with the comparative financial packages. We started up a football team and couldn't get any players between the ages of 21 and 35 as so many young men working away in EU.

 

[RegTheDonk]

You’ll like this:

My Romanian mate who has a hotel says they think Brexit is great and are hoping that some Romanian hotel workers are coming back. They need trained staff, even better if they speak other languages. His problem has been getting trained staff and there is a general lack of young people to help the economy.

He reckons their economy is growing too slowly because of this.

Sorry for mentioning my Romanian mate.

Awesome for him and nice to see other parts of the EU supporting Brexit. Begs the question why didn't they want to work for him in the first place.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Absolutely agree with this.
If MPs resign the party whip then they should trigger a by election automatically.
An extraordinary abuse of the democratic principle when you are elected on one platform then decide not to fulfil the "contract" but can carry on under a false flag.

lol maybe he works for SISU when it comes to honouring contracts. Does sound a bit double standards banging on about a peoples vote but not letting the people vote.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Awesome can I see some factual evidence
Please

There is no evidence. He simply makes things up .

 

[Astute]

Find where I have said there should be a 3 way referendum and I will gladly have egg on my face. Since you never admit a mistake I won't hold my breath

You said it will either be May's deal, no deal or remain. I asked you to confirm this. Then you started insulting me.

How about showing where I said anything about a referendum on these three subjects? What I said is no deal won't happen, Mays deal is about dead but remaining might happen. Of course not as I didn't. But you make things up as usual. And I suppose Mart will be here to defend you soon.

 

[Astute]

The word is comprehension. You have obviously misunderstood that as well.

I spoke too soon I suppose......

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

No deal please lets get out of this toxic mess.
Its just like ticketmaster saying you've got a ticket for the playoff final then them emailing you and saying oh weve sold it to someone else tough shit!!!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No deal please lets get out of this toxic mess.
Its just like ticketmaster saying you've got a ticket for the playoff final then them emailing you and saying oh weve sold it to someone else tough shit!!!

Any thoughts as to how that would work?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You said it will either be May's deal, no deal or remain. I asked you to confirm this. Then you started insulting me.

How about showing where I said anything about a referendum on these three subjects? What I said is no deal won't happen, Mays deal is about dead but remaining might happen. Of course not as I didn't. But you make things up as usual. And I suppose Mart will be here to defend you soon.

You take what people say.

You misunderstand them.

You write an essay embarrassing yourself.

You try to create straw men either because you still misunderstand or to deflect the awkwardness.

Give it up old timer

 

[skybluetony176]

on thin ice with this one as it's a singular issue the ERG is based on. Conservative on all other issues. However Brexit is resolved the ERG will disappear.

So if the only way to resolve brexit is a second referendum with a remain win the ERG will disappear?

 

[Astute]

No deal please lets get out of this toxic mess.
Its just like ticketmaster saying you've got a ticket for the playoff final then them emailing you and saying oh weve sold it to someone else tough shit!!!

Get real.

Yes we would be OK in years to come. But it is a lot to risk in the near term.

 

[Astute]

You take what people say.

You misunderstand them.

You write an essay embarrassing yourself.

You try to create straw men either because you still misunderstand or to deflect the awkwardness.

Give it up old timer

Embarrassing myself?

OK. How about the truth from you for once? Did you say it was between the May deal, leave without a deal or remaining and nothing else could happen because of what the EU would allow?

Old timer? What sort of insult is this?

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Get out and deal with it we are all grown men the world won’t end and we don’t owe them anything.
Wish we’d grow some balls in our parliament !!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Get out and deal with it we are all grown men the world won’t end and we don’t owe them anything.
Wish we’d grow some balls in our parliament !!!

Yeah just break contracts and make ourselves as worse off as we can because RULE BRITANNIA

 

[tisza]

So if the only way to resolve brexit is a second referendum with a remain win the ERG will disappear?

Most likely.
Backed themselves into a corner. Would take brunt of the blame for not getting a deal through.
Then Conservative party faced with issue that can they allow a small but vocal faction fester. Growing enmity between the 2 parts of the party. Would certainly cost them a GE particularly a snap election.
Also if ERG are so committed do they separate themselves (like the independent group) into a new party? Then much like most single issue parties will fade and die.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Yeah just break contracts and make ourselves as worse off as we can because RULE BRITANNIA

So how do you know we will be worse off?
Your not listening to the doom mongers are you?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Embarrassing myself?

OK. How about the truth from you for once? Did you say it was between the May deal, leave without a deal or remaining and nothing else could happen because of what the EU would allow?

Old timer? What sort of insult is this?

Those are the 3 most realistic because the EU have refused further negotiation. The deal suits them fine. I’d want another vote that gives Leave the best chance and haven’t argued for splitting it with 2 Leave options.

You’ve tried spinning this as me arguing for a 3 way vote a few times. Don’t worry-in 20 years time we can hold this whole exercise up as an example of why not to always listen to your elders.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So how do you know we will be worse off?
Your not listening to the doom mongers are you?

I take the best case scenarios from leading Leave figures. They have now shifted to arguing that the hit to your pocket will only be temporary. Rees Mogg famously said we’ll start to get a dividend in 40-50 years. And if this is the best they can spin it as I take the reality to be worse.

With fewer skilled immigrants we will continue to have a shortage in the type of worker we need most. Because education isn’t valued by the Tories we never get close to bridging the gap with our own workers. Also because British people are too picky to work in McDonald’s and other similar jobs the departure of young or unskilled immigrants will leave them short too.

You will then complain that the NHS/schools/police are shit while you vote Tory and Brexit and not see the connection. The Sun will continue to blame foreigners/Labour/miscellaneous scroungers and you will lap it up while wanking into a Union Jack. And there are millions more like you who will do the exact same.