The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (88 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I think farage would take a good few Conservative and Labour voters, and I think the lib dems would take a good few Labour voters.

But with our electoral system that would be likely to have little impact. You'd end up with another hung parliament. The only debate would be which parties would join together and how much the main parties vote would shrink.

We need some sort of proportional representation to make every vote count.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

According Sir John Curtice, the polls for today show about 35% for hard Brexit parties (UKIP + Brexit Party) and 35% for pro-remain parties (Lib Dem, Greens, Change UK, Plaid Cymru) - Tory, Labour and SNP we’re left out of this. It’s madness how polarising this issue is.

I reckon Tory positions on Brexit will harden and Labour will probably adopt a so-called People’s Vote as policy.

 

[skybluetony176]

Clearly, yet apparently it'll be clear that the country wants to crash out into the unknown because.... Well just because.

Well, not necessarily. They’ve just added up the projected percentages of the parties with a clear remain against UKIP and Brexit Ltd but crucially eliminating SNP as there’s apparently no clear vote for them on remain only (in other words leavers are still voting SNP in large numbers) so basically it’s an England and Wales consensus and the consensus is we’re split 50/50. Northern Ireland is clear remain as is Scotland. If you consider all that it hasn’t been a good night for leave and especially hard leave. The numbers flatter to deceive Brexit Ltd and their argument.

 

[skybluetony176]

According Sir John Curtice, the polls for today show about 35% for hard Brexit parties (UKIP + Brexit Party) and 35% for pro-remain parties (Lib Dem, Greens, Change UK, Plaid Cymru) - Tory, Labour and SNP we’re left out of this. It’s madness how polarising this issue is.

I reckon Tory positions on Brexit will harden and Labour will probably adopt a so-called People’s Vote as policy.

I think that will be largely accurate. Question is will this cause further resignations from Conservative MP’s and will this trigger a general election.

 

[skybluetony176]

But with our electoral system that would be likely to have little impact. You'd end up with another hung parliament. The only debate would be which parties would join together and how much the main parties vote would shrink.

We need some sort of proportional representation to make every vote count.

I can see a Labour/Lib Dem coalition assuming that Labour now adopt a second referendum as main policy. That might actually be the only way to deliver Brexit also.

 

[chiefdave]

I can see a Labour/Lib Dem coalition assuming that Labour now adopt a second referendum as main policy. That might actually be the only way to deliver Brexit also.

I don't see this getting better anytime soon. Lets say there is a general election and Labour / Lib Dem, possibly with a few others, manage to get enough to form a government and we have another referendum.

Chances our we'll get roughly the same result again. Maybe it will swing 52 - 48 the other way, who knows, but it won't suddenly be a landslide one way or the other so we keep going with the same arguments. Possibly even more so depending what the question is this time round.

If they don't have a remain option on there that sides not happy, if they do the leavers won't be happy.

Whole thing is a compete and utter mess and there's not any route out of it that's looking great.

Leaving, if and when that happens, won't sort things. We'll have years of arguing if anything good or bad is down to leaving or not.

 

[Westendlad]

Notice the 'usual' lefties are panicking lol

 

[Ian1779]

If Labour come out as a Remain party it will lose the next GE. Too many key seats that they will lose with this stance.

And for those with the usual ‘leftie’ comments... it’s the centrists that want to remain... you’re looking in the wrong direction.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Corbyn should surely see that wanting another election is the height of madness-if he keeps insisting on it even after these results he has to go. Push for a second vote as a way of breaking the deadlock and get the votes back from team centrist who are committing to a policy position for the first time in recorded history.

Also amazing how you can win an election with no policies and a charlatan at the front of your party. The Farage cult in full swing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It all comes down to whether you want the idiots in Brussels deciding what goes on in the UK, or the idiots in London.
I go for the idiots in London because at least we can vote them out.

3 laws imposed by Brussels you wish we didn’t have and why

Go

 

[dutchman]

Also amazing how you can win an election with no policies and a charlatan at the front of your party. The Farage cult in full swing.

Nobody "won" anything.

63% didn't bother to vote either because they feel the EU Parliament is irrelevant or because they thought their vote didn't matter.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Rupert Lowe is one our local MEPs. There’s a blast from the past.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nobody "won" anything.

63% didn't bother to vote either because they feel the EU Parliament is irrelevant or because they thought their vote didn't matter.

Won the most MEPs and largest vote share

 

[Ashdown]

FFS the spin on here, look at the map, speaking very plainly the great majority of the nation in area terms voted for Brexit, the ' Remain ' vote again came from ' We want out Scotland ' and the ' Foreign vote' in and around the big cities, plus a few we are doing very nicely types in the affluent South. Like it or not, ordinary English and Welsh born folk are sending a message.

 

[dutchman]

Won the most MEPs and largest vote share

Depends how you measure it.

I'm sure there are are pro-EU posters here who would argue otherwise.

 

[Ian1779]

FFS the spin on here, look at the map, speaking very plainly the great majority of the nation in area terms voted for Brexit, the ' Remain ' vote again came from ' We want out Scotland ' and the ' Foreign vote' in and around the big cities, plus a few we are doing very nicely types in the affluent South. Like it or not, ordinary English and Welsh born folk are sending a message.

Yes you are right... which means the main parties need to find a way to arrange a sensible exit from the EU. Not the car-crash shite that Farage wants.

 

[dutchman]

The turnout in the West Midlands was even worse than in the country as a whole, 31.1% compared to 33.3% in 2014.

I don't yet have figures for Coventry but the above broadly coincides with what I witnessed personally.

Around here it was the elderly and infirm who were the most likely to vote!

 

[djr8369]

The only way to achieve a deal with the EU, is to get no deal back on the table. Then there might be some true negotiation

It’s power as negotiating leverage is drastically over valued. Negative effects would be far worse for us and people in the EU can understand English and know the plan.

All it would mean is we crash out then face the same barriers trying to get a trade deal down the line but a lot of businesses would take a severe hit while waiting.


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[djr8369]

It's people like Emma that I love for the comedic factor.
Implying that all the remainers voted greens and lib dem, would mean that over 60% never voted for remain, my god people cling onto anything haha

This women is an absolute tool

Obviously I don't believe that 60% of Britain want to leave but its just the sheer bullshit spouted just to cling onto any last drop of hope lol

People are keen enough to read a vote for the Brexit party as a vote for no deal. You can’t have one and not the other. Greens and LD have seen their vote surge for a reason, they have a clear remain stance.


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[djr8369]

You’ve illustrated my point perfectly.... anything except a no deal is called a ‘remainers Brexit’ - it’s bullshit.

Also know as the Brexit both leave campaigns campaigned for


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[djr8369]

Guess what, many people don't like general election results either but guess what... We have to deal with it, called democracy

This country voted to leave, end of story

We can leave, just not with no deal which was never what was suggested by the leave campaigns.


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[djr8369]

The arrogant tossers on the EU negotiating side have obviously wound up a lot of people. They need to stop pushing to change the UK decision and sort out either a fair deal or prepare for a mutually disruptive no deal.

How are they arrogant? Seems to be our side with the cavalier “tell them what we want” attitude.

The deal is fair as it is. What would you want to change as there’s little the EU can offer in practicality?


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[Evo1883]

So what I'm gauging from last night is that if you add up lib dem, green, snp, plaid cymru, sausage, egg, beans, lions, Netflix subscribers and sales of gazebos this month......... Remain won last night lol

 

[djr8369]

I don't see this getting better anytime soon. Lets say there is a general election and Labour / Lib Dem, possibly with a few others, manage to get enough to form a government and we have another referendum.

Chances our we'll get roughly the same result again. Maybe it will swing 52 - 48 the other way, who knows, but it won't suddenly be a landslide one way or the other so we keep going with the same arguments. Possibly even more so depending what the question is this time round.

If they don't have a remain option on there that sides not happy, if they do the leavers won't be happy.

Whole thing is a compete and utter mess and there's not any route out of it that's looking great.

Leaving, if and when that happens, won't sort things. We'll have years of arguing if anything good or bad is down to leaving or not.

The only way to do it is with a multiple choice preferred option system that will result in a soft Brexit.

So you could choose no deal or revoke but then you can choose a 2nd option (soft Brexit of some kind).

Otherwise we’re going to have to change our red lines or loose Northern Ireland if we want a “better deal”.


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[djr8369]

Corbyn should surely see that wanting another election is the height of madness-if he keeps insisting on it even after these results he has to go. Push for a second vote as a way of breaking the deadlock and get the votes back from team centrist who are committing to a policy position for the first time in recorded history.

Also amazing how you can win an election with no policies and a charlatan at the front of your party. The Farage cult in full swing.

Wonder where all that money Brexit Party Ltd is making is going?


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[dutchman]

Otherwise we’re going to have to change our red lines or loose Northern Ireland if we want a “better deal”.

I doubt the EU gives a rat's ass about Northern Ireland.

If it was a cloice between keeping Britain in and keeping any part of Ireland in they will choose to keep Britain in every time.

 

[djr8369]

FFS the spin on here, look at the map, speaking very plainly the great majority of the nation in area terms voted for Brexit, the ' Remain ' vote again came from ' We want out Scotland ' and the ' Foreign vote' in and around the big cities, plus a few we are doing very nicely types in the affluent South. Like it or not, ordinary English and Welsh born folk are sending a message.

You say that but a lot of those leave voters are over 60. Plenty of the white working class want to remain.


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[Covkid1968#]

Another referendum now more likely....if it happens we will remain. Then we can get back on with our lives and nobody has to lose their jobs. If that’s delivered with a lib lab pact and they somehow bin Corbyn then that will get my vote.

 

[djr8369]

I doubt the EU gives a rat's ass about Northern Ireland.

If it was a cloice between keeping Britain in and keeping any part of Ireland in they will choose to keep Britain in every time.

Yes as it’s the prudent decision for the European economy. I’m not saying offer it as leverage I mean that leaving NI in the single market is the only solution to the border issue.


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[The Lurker]

this is hilarious. Brexit party smashes it and the left are claiming a result lol. Many voters who want brexit didn’t vote Thursday as they don’t believe in the EU. no one put this into the domain. secondly labour are fucked and no longer a working class party. they’ve turned themselves into a socialist party and that will be there demise.

 

[Grendel]

The funniest thing was seeing the condescending bigot Emily Thornberry last night making up policy as she went along - a second referendum backing remain - and northern labour MPs tweeting the programme telling her where she can stick it

 

[The Lurker]

finally this shows politicians still don’t live in the real world especially Anna soubry. she’s one deluded person

 

[The Lurker]

The funniest thing was seeing the condescending bigot Emily Thornberry last night making up policy as she went along - a second referendum backing remain - and northern labour MPs tweeting the programme telling her where she can stick it

Add her to the deluded list too. car crash tv. wales always been a labour strong hold. they’ve lost that massively too

 

[Grendel]

Another referendum now more likely....if it happens we will remain. Then we can get back on with our lives and nobody has to lose their jobs. If that’s delivered with a lib lab pact and they somehow bin Corbyn then that will get my vote.

Can’t see whose going to get a second referendum through parliament - in fact the next Tory MP could put it for a vote and whip his party - many labour mps will note vote for it. That would end any further hope of an extension beyond October and minds can truly be focused

 

[Grendel]

If Labour come out as a Remain party it will lose the next GE. Too many key seats that they will lose with this stance.

And for those with the usual ‘leftie’ comments... it’s the centrists that want to remain... you’re looking in the wrong direction.

It is extraordinary but it actually looks like it’s going to happen - can’t see Corbyn staying in power for much longer