The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If Labour come out as a Remain party it will lose the next GE. Too many key seats that they will lose with this stance.

And for those with the usual ‘leftie’ comments... it’s the centrists that want to remain... you’re looking in the wrong direction.

Equally, it’s ambiguous stance on Brexit has caused a lot of Remain Labour voters to defect to Lib Dem.

Labour is never going to put no-deal on the table at an election. So stands little chance of out-brexiting the Tories or the Brexit Party.

The saving grace for Labour would be first past the post, which would probably keep a lot of traditional Labour leave seats in the fold.

It’s performance in London, Wales and Scotland in particular are cause for worry, but I need to have a look at how it did elsewhere as I fell asleep during the coverage at about 2am.

 

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[dutchman]

It is extraordinary but it actually looks like it’s going to happen - can’t see Corbyn staying in power for much longer

And then they'll be back to where they were with Ed Miliband!

 

[Ian1779]

Add her to the deluded list too. car crash tv. wales always been a labour strong hold. they’ve lost that massively too

They have lost Wales for the same reason they lost Scotland.. the Blair legacy of ambivalence towards towards austerity, and not championing investment in areas that desperately need it.

 

[Grendel]

If someone like Johnson gets in given these results he could look at a general election just before the exit date

Tie a deal with Farage to only stand in strong leave Labour seats and Tory candidates withdraw

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

They have lost Wales for the same reason they lost Scotland.. the Blair legacy of ambivalence towards towards austerity, and not championing investment in areas that desperately need it.

Not really, Labour did well in 2017 and has had a socialist as leader since 2015. The Welsh first-minister has also shadowed Corbyn’s Brexit policy — which people have criticised.

People can’t continue to blame all Labour’s issues on Blair. PC as well as being a nationalist party, has been unambiguously pro-remain and pro-second referendum.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

If someone like Johnson gets in given these results he could look at a general election just before the exit date

Tie a deal with Farage to only stand in strong leave Labour seats and Tory candidates withdraw

This has to be the way forward.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Where's 'Brexit is Dead' mart this morning?

 

[Grendel]

Where's 'Brexit is Dead' mart this morning?

I’m sure he will find a way to convince himself

 

[djr8369]

And then they'll be back to where they were with Ed Miliband!

“Chaos with Ed Miliband”


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[djr8369]

If someone like Johnson gets in given these results he could look at a general election just before the exit date

Tie a deal with Farage to only stand in strong leave Labour seats and Tory candidates withdraw

Quite possible given they both take advice from Bannon.


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[SkyblueBazza]

This election is polarised between no-deal Brexiteers and ‘Final Say’ referendum Remainers. Hence Labour and Conservatives have been punished.

I disagree...it is polarised between people who wish to remain, & those who wish to leave.

On both sides of the equation there is much fragmentation about how we can go about getting to that end.

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[Grendel]

Quite possible given they both take advice from Bannon.


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Oh dear it’s half term I forgot

 

[djr8369]

Oh dear it’s half term I forgot

Make silly jokes if you want but both have consulted with Bannon.


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[SkyblueBazza]

And leave won by a margin of 1.3 million.

Quite a large amount of people

The same old names both politically & on here will not accept that & persist with the theme that it is alright to dismiss them

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[djr8369]

The same old names both politically & on here will not accept that & persist with the theme that it is alright to dismiss them

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How are they being dismissed?


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[Grendel]

Make silly jokes if you want but both have consulted with Bannon.


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That’s ok Corbyn has consulted with far worse

 

[Ashdown]

You say that but a lot of those leave voters are over 60. Plenty of the white working class want to remain.


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Those over 60's are in a better position to guage the pros and cons of 40 years in the EU than a bunch of non political kids......and they really couldn't give a shit, lets be honest, just look at the demographics of who voted in recent elections.

 

[Grendel]

Those over 60's are in a better position to guage the pros and cons of 40 years in the EU than a bunch of non political kids......and they really couldn't give a shit, lets be honest, just look at the demographics of who voted in recent elections.

And of course most of those kids when they experience the benefits of capitalism will realise the lies they were sold and bite like the 60 year olds

 

[djr8369]

That’s ok Corbyn has consulted with far worse

Are you ever able to respond with anything but a straw man?

I’m not a defender of Corbyn so don’t know why you constantly bring him up.


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[djr8369]

Those over 60's are in a better position to guage the pros and cons of 40 years in the EU than a bunch of non political kids......and they really couldn't give a shit, lets be honest, just look at the demographics of who voted in recent elections.

Yes, with their safe pensions and living through decades of economic growth you’d think they’d know better.




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[Ashdown]

The funniest thing was seeing the condescending bigot Emily Thornberry last night making up policy as she went along - a second referendum backing remain - and northern labour MPs tweeting the programme telling her where she can stick it

That ' woman ' would have been losing Labour votes by the second, the stupid arrogant fool. Yet again telling a huge part of the electorate they don't know what they are voting for .

 

[Grendel]

Are you ever able to respond with anything but a straw man?

I’m not a defender of Corbyn so don’t know why you constantly bring him up.


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Says the poster who just randomly threw in a comment about people meeting the boogie man

 

[djr8369]

And of course most of those kids when they experience the benefits of capitalism will realise the lies they were sold and bite like the 60 year olds

What lies? Unsure what you are getting at here?


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[djr8369]

Says the poster who just randomly threw in a comment about people meeting the boogie man

It’s not random. I’m pointing out that they may share similar strategic goals so may form an agreement. I was agreeing with your point.


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[Grendel]

That ' woman ' would have been losing Labour votes by the second, the stupid arrogant fool. Yet again telling a huge part of the electorate they don't know what they are voting for .

She should be sacked after that lamentable performance

 

[Ashdown]

Yes, with their safe pensions and living through decades of economic growth you’d think they’d know better.




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This isn't just about economics, there are many facets to this revolt, it's Europe wide against mainstream establishment political parties.

 

[djr8369]

This isn't just about economics, there are many facets to this revolt, it's Europe wide against mainstream establishment political parties.

Kind of my point. Those most willing to leave the EU are over 60 and hence financially safe. It’s all very well saying it isn’t about economics but it’s economics that puts good in people’s mouths and pays their mortgage. When politics exists in a vacuum without the context of the real world it’s just ideology.

Ideology is trampling over economics and we will all suffer the consequences.


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[martcov]

Yes you are right... which means the main parties need to find a way to arrange a sensible exit from the EU. Not the car-crash shite that Farage wants.

There isn’t a sensible way to leave the largest trading bloc in the world which guarantees basic rights and encourages trade and cooperation between 28 countries. That is the reality and is why Brexit cannot succeed.

 

[martcov]

This isn't just about economics, there are many facets to this revolt, it's Europe wide against mainstream establishment political parties.

People like Farage and Tice and Ms Rees -Mogg are the mainstream establishment and want deregulation and Trump style turbo capitalism at the expense of the poorest. Just because they say they aren’t the rich and powerful doesn’t mean that they aren’t. Be interesting to read Farage’s manifesto after the next general election.

 

[Ashdown]

Ultimately what has caused all this unrest across Europe is the transfer of millions of traditional manufacturing jobs to the Far East. This has left many areas feeling abandoned and a lot poorer, whereas successive governments have failed to re distribute wealth and new industries to compensate. These folk still have to cope with the high costs of UK/ European living but now with low paid warehouse and service jobs. Plus they have to compete with millions of foreigners for said low paid work. Result=Revolt. Giving money to the EU is seen as pointless.

 

[martcov]

I doubt the EU gives a rat's ass about Northern Ireland.

If it was a cloice between keeping Britain in and keeping any part of Ireland in they will choose to keep Britain in every time.

It obviously does give a damn. Ireland is an EU member and the British border is also an EU border which presents them with a control problem.

 

[Ashdown]

People like Farage and Tice and Ms Rees -Mogg are the mainstream establishment and want deregulation and Trump style turbo capitalism at the expense of the poorest. Just because they say they aren’t the rich and powerful doesn’t mean that they aren’t. Be interesting to read Farage’s manifesto after the next general election.

What you describe there is pretty much in place. Disenfranchised millions, fed up working full time for a wage that barely covers the high cost of living, whilst they see EU migrants pouring in forcing down wages with their sheer numbers and the nation spunking away billions to the EU when Nanna has to wait months to get a basic operation at the local hospital and the kids classes are teaming with kids whose first language isn't English and we are constantly told pollution and environmental destruction is on the rise whilst it can't possibly have anything to do with 1/4 million more people every year can it ?!

 

[martcov]

Ultimately what has caused all this unrest across Europe is the transfer of millions of traditional manufacturing jobs to the Far East. This has left many areas feeling abandoned and a lot poorer, whereas successive governments have failed to re distribute wealth and new industries to compensate. These folk still have to cope with the high costs of UK/ European living but now with low paid warehouse and service jobs. Plus they have to compete with millions of foreigners for said low paid work. Result=Revolt. Giving money to the EU is seen as pointless.

The point being the growth of the Far East as an economic powerhouse and the increased use of machinery and a.i. in Europe to remain competitive. Then comes the crash of 2008 which we, normal people, have not yet compensated with our incomes. Loads of reasons to be worried. Easy for populists to point at foreigners as the problem and people of other religions, colours or sexual preferences as being „ morally wrong“ or inferior to the majority population. Splitting Europe will not solve the main problems facing Western Europe. Farage has not offered one tangible, unarguable economic benefit to Brexit. Only nationalistic rhetoric. He has even said that Brexit is not about economics ( since the referendum of course ). If you seriously want to make Europe better for everyone as you claim, you should vote green.

 

[djr8369]

Ultimately what has caused all this unrest across Europe is the transfer of millions of traditional manufacturing jobs to the Far East. This has left many areas feeling abandoned and a lot poorer, whereas successive governments have failed to re distribute wealth and new industries to compensate. These folk still have to cope with the high costs of UK/ European living but now with low paid warehouse and service jobs. Plus they have to compete with millions of foreigners for said low paid work. Result=Revolt. Giving money to the EU is seen as pointless.

The Brexiter economist Patrick Minford said the U.K. manufacturing industry would have to be left to die. Brexit is a vote for more of the same problems you cite and worse.


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[skybluetony176]

I doubt the EU gives a rat's ass about Northern Ireland.

If it was a cloice between keeping Britain in and keeping any part of Ireland in they will choose to keep Britain in every time.

That doesn’t even make sense. Ireland is not leaving the EU and will never be forced out.