The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (148 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Personally I always saw the referendum as being for no deal. That's what leaving is so you'd have to work from the assumption there'd be nothing. All the talk about this deal or that deal were in there to convince the less rabid Brexiteers who maybe had certain aspects of the EU they wanted to keep, resulting in lots of people voting for what their own interpretation of what Brexit was rather than what is actually was because no-one knew.

But it is galling how the likes of Farage who complained about the control the EU had now essentially want to give that to the US and Trump in what would be a terrible deal. At least we can be thankful China is Communist so they'll be put off selling us out to them (though I imagine the Middle East see quite a few new opportunities potentially coming their way).

Even thought we were told no one was talking about No Deal, leaving the SM and even Farage was talking about the Norway option?

 

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[Sick Boy]

UK 'cannot end freedom of movement' on Brexit day

And then some refused to believe that other countries actually do use the powers available to register, check and monitor migrants’ status in their country.

Might be moving soon so I will make sure to get a picture with the police when they come round to check I’ve moved for the doubters.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Even thought we were told no one was talking about No Deal, leaving the SM and even Farage was talking about the Norway option?

Yes, because no-one had actually fleshed any of these options out as to what they actually entailed or if they were even possible. This was going on within the camp wanting to leave, let all those that didn't or the EU. So it all meant nothing. The only statement we had was "leave the EU", so I took that as what it said - "leave the EU". That meant ripping up all the legislative framework we had taken on as part of the EU.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

And then some refused to believe that other countries actually do use the powers available to register, check and monitor migrants statues in their country.

Might be moving soon so I will make sure to get a picture with the police when they come round to check I’ve moved for the doubters.

Good thing about migrants statues is they don't have any freedom of movement at all!

Or are you talking about those annoying people that spray themselves silver and stand still? In which case yes, they should be registered and monitored 24/7. And tasered if they move an inch.

 

[Sick Boy]

Good thing about migrants statues is they don't have any freedom of movement at all!

Or are you talking about those annoying people that spray themselves silver and stand still? In which case yes, they should be registered and monitored 24/7. And tasered if they move an inch.

Arsehole

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, because no-one had actually fleshed any of these options out as to what they actually entailed or if they were even possible. This was going on within the camp wanting to leave, let all those that didn't or the EU. So it all meant nothing. The only statement we had was "leave the EU", so I took that as what it said - "leave the EU". That meant ripping up all the legislative framework we had taken on as part of the EU.

That’s the problem, technically being in the EEA would also mean the UK would be outside of the EU.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes, because no-one had actually fleshed any of these options out as to what they actually entailed or if they were even possible. This was going on within the camp wanting to leave, let all those that didn't or the EU. So it all meant nothing. The only statement we had was "leave the EU", so I took that as what it said - "leave the EU". That meant ripping up all the legislative framework we had taken on as part of the EU.

I’m not sure if the logic here. Leave the EU meant leaving the EU, not anything else. We were constantly told we’d be like Norway for example. It’s one of the main reasons I thought it was such a mental idea, why remove our power to make laws but keep abiding by them? We obviously want to trade with our neighbours and better to be inside the tent pissing out.

The no deal shit only appeared once Farage needed a new rallying call for his collected frothers.

 

[shmmeee]

If people are so sure everyone voted for no deal, why are they so against the chance to prove it in a referendum?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Which I thought was our idea after the war had shown us what happens when a government decides to do away with people’s rights. Shows how much the UK has changed in recent years.

You spend all your time slating the UK and chasing girls less than half your age so I doubt anyone gives a tiny shite what you think.

 

[djr8369]

That meant ripping up all the legislative framework we had taken on as part of the EU.

Surely that was ruled out by stating we’d have a deal and continue to trade with them?




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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m not sure if the logic here. Leave the EU meant leaving the EU, not anything else. We were constantly told we’d be like Norway for example. It’s one of the main reasons I thought it was such a mental idea, why remove our power to make laws but keep abiding by them? We obviously want to trade with our neighbours and better to be inside the tent pissing out.

The no deal shit only appeared once Farage needed a new rallying call for his collected frothers.

Exaclty. All the other stuff is not necessarily part of leaving the EU - it's an ancillary and separate process. We were told we'd do a deal like Norway, not that we would do Norway. We were also told stuff about being like Switzerland and Canada as well as many other. Nothing concrete, just guesswork. So the only definite statement was "leaving the EU"

All the rest of it was meaningless blather designed to swing a few people towards leave. It worked.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Surely that was ruled out by stating we’d have a deal and continue to trade with them?

If you believed the statement of doing a deal. Given the numerous different options mooted it seemed clear to me they had no real clue what a deal would be or even if they could get it. It was all guesswork.

We could still trade with them without being in the EU - it'd just be on off-the-shelf WTO terms or with independently decided tariffs (even though I felt that wasn't going to be used unless absolutely necessary).

 

[djr8369]

If you believed the statement of doing a deal. Given the numerous different options mooted it seemed clear to me they had no real clue what a deal would be or even if they could get it. It was all guesswork.

We could still trade with them without being in the EU - it'd just be on off-the-shelf WTO terms or with independently decided tariffs (even though I felt that wasn't going to be used unless absolutely necessary).

Of course they had no clue. The problem is, regardless of what you or I or anyone else actually believed, and what is possible in reality, there is no mandate for no deal because.

Yes we could still trade but it wouldn’t completely free us from the legislative framework as goods would have to adhere to their standards. Admittedly I was being very general when I included that within “legislative framework” but again, one of the selling points of Brexit was that we wouldn’t have to adhere to any of the legislation so I thought it was fair game.


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[Astute]

I love the way you have the cheek to say this when he has called the time scale delusional and you’ve changed that to “so you’re saying they won’t want to do a deal?”




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And here we go again.

It is OK to call certain people delusional and say it is delusional for anyone to expect the EU to want to make a deal with us after we leave the EU. But then you pull me up for wanting anyone making these comments to explain why they wouldn't want to make a deal with us. You are another one who just wants the comments on here to go in one direction.

What a joke.

 

[djr8369]

And here we go again.

It is OK to call certain people delusional and say it is delusional for anyone to expect the EU to want to make a deal with us after we leave the EU. But then you pull me up for wanting anyone making these comments to explain why they wouldn't want to make a deal with us. You are another one who just wants the comments on here to go in one direction.

What a joke.

Ffs. Do you have issues with comprehension? He called the TIMESCALE delusional. It is no comment on the will of anyone to get a deal done.

And it’s nothing to do with wanting the comments to go one way it’s about you misinterpreting what people have written and then complaining. You have again done what I’m picking you up on in your reply to me!


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[Astute]

Ffs. Do you have issues with comprehension? He called the TIMESCALE delusional. It is no comment on the will of anyone to get a deal done.

And it’s nothing to do with wanting the comments to go one way it’s about you misinterpreting what people have written and then complaining. You have again done what I’m picking you up on in your reply to me!


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Two years not enough time?

Me delusional?

The EU set it as two years. They could take longer if needed. It is the EU that dictates what happens. And it isn't me who is delusional for understanding what is going on.

 

[djr8369]

Two years not enough time?

Me delusional?

The EU set it as two years. They could take longer if needed. It is the EU that dictates what happens. And it isn't me who is delusional for understanding what is going on.

No, not you delusional. You’re still taking it personally.


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[Astute]

No, not you delusional. You’re still taking it personally.


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So are you now saying that I wasn't called delusional when pointing out the truth?

There are too many on here that shout what they want and won't let anyone else make any sort of comment without trying to shout them down. You are one of these. Look back at the last couple of pages. You will see others. You would think that ending Brexit depended on it.

I have called a few things that have ended up happening and been called delusional each time. So does delusional mean good guess? Just like when I said I saw Farage starting a new party and it beating established parties.

I want and need this mess sorting out. I need it much more than the vast majority on here. But it doesn't mean that I am not allowed to give my opinion on the events as they happen.

 

[djr8369]

So are you now saying that I wasn't called delusional when pointing out the truth?

There are too many on here that shout what they want and won't let anyone else make any sort of comment without trying to shout them down. You are one of these. Look back at the last couple of pages. You will see others. You would think that ending Brexit depended on it.

I have called a few things that have ended up happening and been called delusional each time. So does delusional mean good guess? Just like when I said I saw Farage starting a new party and it beating established parties.

I want and need this mess sorting out. I need it much more than the vast majority on here. But it doesn't mean that I am not allowed to give my opinion on the events as they happen.

Who is shouting you down? You have your say and people reply, it’s a discussion of ideas.

You seem to take it all so personally.


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[Sick Boy]

Who is shouting you down? You have your say and people reply, it’s a discussion of ideas.

You seem to take it all so personally.


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The constant playing the victim is beyond tedious. Like most people on this thread he’s also called things that have been correct but also got things wrong as well, as have most people.

 

[Astute]

The constant playing the victim is beyond tedious. Like most people on this thread he’s also called things that have been correct but also got things wrong as well, as have most people.

Yeah OK.

So in what way am I playing the victum just because I show YOURSELF and others to be constantly twisting the truth. Just like the constant comments that the UK will instantly go into meltdown if we leave the EU without a trade deal. Yet you all know that hardly anything will change at least for 2 years. This 2 years could even mean our borders are still open. This same 2 years where we are supposed to die because medicine can't reach us. The same 2 years that we are going to starve.

And look what happens when I point out that you know it isn't true. You say I am playing at being a victim. Maybe a victim of pro EU propaganda from yourself and others but nothing else.

So SB would you like to explain why you think that I want us out of the EU? If that isn't what you are saying then what is it?

 

[Sick Boy]

Yeah OK.

So in what way am I playing the victum just because I show YOURSELF and others to be constantly twisting the truth. Just like the constant comments that the UK will instantly go into meltdown if we leave the EU without a trade deal. Yet you all know that hardly anything will change at least for 2 years. This 2 years could even mean our borders are still open. This same 2 years where we are supposed to die because medicine can't reach us. The same 2 years that we are going to starve.

And look what happens when I point out that you know it isn't true. You say I am playing at being a victim. Maybe a victim of pro EU propaganda from yourself and others but nothing else.

So SB would you like to explain why you think that I want us out of the EU? If that isn't what you are saying then what is it?

Where the fuck in that post does it say you want out of the EU?

You do constantly play the victim though

You constantly play the victim and act like people attack you when they post, which is not the case at all. You claim that others “shout you down” which is nonsense.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ffs. Do you have issues with comprehension?

Definitely. Impossible to communicate with sometimes

 

[Astute]

Where the fuck in that post does it say you want out of the EU?

You do constantly play the victim though

You constantly play the victim and act like people attack you when they post, which is not the case at all. You claim that others “shout you down” which is nonsense.

So you don't constantly have a go at my posts? And I suppose I don't frequently ask you to explain what you are having a go at then you go quiet unless you use your get out clause of saying that I am playing the victim.

As I continually say we both want and need the same thing. But each time you go on about things that will happen but in reality they won't change because of the 2 year whatever you want to call it this week I point it out to you. And you dislike this. You are certainly not alone here.

So I don't get shouted down? Would you like me to quote some posts just from the last couple of days?

 

[Sick Boy]

So you don't constantly have a go at my posts? And I suppose I don't frequently ask you to explain what you are having a go at then you go quiet unless you use your get out clause of saying that I am playing the victim.

As I continually say we both want and need the same thing. But each time you go on about things that will happen but in reality they won't change because of the 2 year whatever you want to call it this week I point it out to you. And you dislike this. You are certainly not alone here.

So I don't get shouted down? Would you like me to quote some posts just from the last couple of days?

No I don't constantly 'have a go' at your posts, it's your perception that I 'have a go' at you.

I don't need anything to happen with Brexit, whatever ends up happening luckily it won't effect me. If it did I would be much more worked up about it.

If there is no deal of course things won't remain as they are now, you'd have to be very naive to actually believe that would be the case, especially with the rhetoric from the likes of Patel.

 

[Astute]

No I don't constantly 'have a go' at your posts, it's your perception that I 'have a go' at you.

I don't need anything to happen with Brexit, whatever ends up happening luckily it won't effect me. If it did I would be much more worked up about it.

If there is no deal of course things won't remain as they are now, you'd have to be very naive to actually believe that would be the case, especially with the rhetoric from the likes of Patel.

You don't? :smuggrin:

More worked up about it? Is that possible?

Of course things will be different. They will be different even if we end up staying in the EU. But here you go again. Naming someone who isn't that important in the scheme of things. We could name thousands of people who have a slight part but nothing more. But they are made out to be important.

 

[Astute]

Definitely. Impossible to communicate with sometimes

Isn't it such a shame that I have had to look into the subject at great depth in more than one country to give my family a decent chance of being able to live in another EU country where they don't have instant rights to remain. Isn't it a shame that I get comments like this for questioning others who constantly come out with false facts.

Isn't it a shame that we get people like yourself who don't want a debate but see it as a way of putting propaganda forward although it makes no difference at all to the result. All it does it wrecks any chance of debate and majes it useless as a way of helping people to understand what is going on.

 

[Mcbean]

Just popping in - Boris seems to be going forward - one way or another something is going to happen to allow the UK to breathe again - not taking sides just saying !

 

[Sick Boy]

Just popping in - Boris seems to be going forward - one way or another something is going to happen to allow the UK to breathe again - not taking sides just saying !

I wonder when he is going to share his alternative plans?

 

[Sick Boy]

You don't? :smuggrin:

More worked up about it? Is that possible?

Of course things will be different. They will be different even if we end up staying in the EU. But here you go again. Naming someone who isn't that important in the scheme of things. We could name thousands of people who have a slight part but nothing more. But they are made out to be important.

I've actually said that the UK should have gone for the EEA option as a compromise, something you seem to ignore.

So members of the cabinet are not important in shaping the country's future?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Isn't it such a shame that I have had to look into the subject at great depth in more than one country to give my family a decent chance of being able to live in another EU country where they don't have instant rights to remain. Isn't it a shame that I get comments like this for questioning others who constantly come out with false facts.

Isn't it a shame that we get people like yourself who don't want a debate but see it as a way of putting propaganda forward although it makes no difference at all to the result. All it does it wrecks any chance of debate and majes it useless as a way of helping people to understand what is going on.

I would love a real debate Astute but too often you sidetrack it into being mortally offended and drawing the wrong conclusion from most arguments. We could have a nice one about the value EU research grants bring to UK science if you want to play the ‘I know a lot about this’ game.

You’re not a bad guy. You just get the wrong end of the stick pretty often

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Just popping in - Boris seems to be going forward - one way or another something is going to happen to allow the UK to breathe again - not taking sides just saying !

We shall see. To me he still seems to have his head in the clouds on positive thinking and tech that doesn't exist.

In his defence it is good to see him challenging the US about a future trade deal, who seem to think it should almost be one way. Whether Boris actually follows through or whether we'll get a few things like the beef etc he mentioned (and I'm assuming he'll send Liz Truss in to open up the pork market) whereas in return we'll leave the NHS open for them and let them flood the market with lower health standard foodstuffs.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Just popping in - Boris seems to be going forward - one way or another something is going to happen to allow the UK to breathe again - not taking sides just saying !

Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.

 

[CCFCSteve]

We shall see. To me he still seems to have his head in the clouds on positive thinking and tech that doesn't exist.

In his defence it is good to see him challenging the US about a future trade deal, who seem to think it should almost be one way. Whether Boris actually follows through or whether we'll get a few things like the beef etc he mentioned (and I'm assuming he'll send Liz Truss in to open up the pork market) whereas in return we'll leave the NHS open for them and let them flood the market with lower health standard foodstuffs.

Not sure this lower standard foodstuffs is quite right SBD. My view is if it’s safe for the consumer it should be their call. Ill use the well used example of chlorinated chicken. If it is available and clearly marked by supermarkets but is cheaper, why shouldn’t someone on a lower budget be able buy it ?

As far as I am aware chlorinated chicken has never had any proven health risks associated with it. Even the European Food Safety Association confirmed it is safe to eat. The EUs argument is that it MAY mean farmers cut corners earlier in the farming/slaughter process. I presume that mean they MAY also have excellent hygiene standards and yet still chlorinate it for extra safety. Who knows.

Not quite my cup of tea but nor are dirt cheap sausages that have various offcuts and shit (not literally....hopefully !) piled in that would probably make your/my stomach turn.

It’s like anything with free market trading though. It’s weighing up the benefits and risks for both the suppliers and the consumers.

Ps also, I’d be shocked, especially operating in such a competitive space, if major supermarkets would buy produce in without understanding/knowing the suppliers hygiene standards. They could literally be slaughtered (sorry, couldn’t resist....it’s bank holiday afterall !!!) by their competition if anything untoward was uncovered.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes it’s hilarious to see the dramatic change in the attitude of the EU leaders.

Six months ago, dealing with the cowering, feeble May, they had the UK exactly where they wanted us.
Pipsqueak politicians like Macron, Varadkar and Tusk knew that they could treat May with contempt and she’d still come back for more.

Now they see us confidently making preparations to leave in a couple of months regardless of them and engaged in talks with Trump and others.
Suddenly they look like the ones on the fringes.

In reality not a lot has actually changed, I still expect Johnson to repackage May's deal and try and get it through parliament.