The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (70 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

If it wasn’t stopped - the new Queen’s Speech has to be voted on, creating a VONC in itself. But not until Oct 14th.

 

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[djr8369]

I assume she’ll want to take the path of least interference but as you point out that might mean not stopping them.


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What an awful position to put the queen in. Any decision she makes will outrage people. She’ll be furious at Johnson and his cronies.


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[Ian1779]

Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?

Not sure - interestingly the last monarch that did it was executed....

 

[djr8369]

If it wasn’t stopped - the new Queen’s Speech has to be voted on, creating a VONC in itself. But not until Oct 14th.

Yes, the idea is it makes it almost impossible to stop while allowing people like Grendel room for manoeuvre by saying “it’s only 5 days”.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think she may be powerless to do anything. This hasn’t happened since the 1640’s.

The proroguing of Parliament requires royal assent. It is completely within her power

 

[Grendel]

A) you are wrong.

B) the labour parties official line is that a general election is their preferred solution even above a second referendum. So again you’re wrong.

Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not wrong though is it? As he won’t want one this time instead he’s trying a coup against protocol

Yes wrong as you said that a no confidence vote had to be tabled-it doesn't, the clown can propose one and persuade Labour to back it.

 

[Sick Boy]

Should have added that for me this shows that Johnson has no serious intention of securing a deal and that no deal is what he is going for. During such an important time in the country's recent history he is probably one of the worst MPs to have in charge.

 

[Grendel]

Yes wrong as you said that a no confidence vote had to be tabled-it doesn't, the clown can propose one and persuade Labour to back it.

For November?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament

Again wrong technically the Queen decides the date

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Can she actually say "no"? I mean constitutionally?

Yes. It requires the monarch's approval

 

[Grendel]

Again wrong technically the Queen decides the date

The parliament act was hastily drawn up and it doesn’t the sitting Prime Minister can decide the date - it could even some experts think could be 6 months after dissolution so Mr Corbyn and his fellow coup members will not be calling an election

Corbyn has to call a no confidence motion - win it and form a government to then agree a delay on the exit date

 

[Grendel]

Yes. It requires the monarch's approval

She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role

She has the power of refusal and preventing the clown's blatant abuse of power lies in the interests of the country. She can show for once that she isn't a pointless figurehead

 

[Sick Boy]

She can’t refuse as she then will be a political figure which is against her constitutional role

She would actually be able to refuse though

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The parliament act was hastily drawn up and it doesn’t the sitting Prime Minister can decide the date - it could even some experts think could be 6 months after dissolution so Mr Corbyn and his fellow coup members will not be calling an election

Corbyn has to call a no confidence motion - win it and form a government to then agree a delay on the exit date

How can he do that with what this clown has just done?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I can understand all of the downsides of being the EU (though regulations on employers and employment rights is certainly not one of them), so could be encouraged to vote out on that basis.

HOWEVER, I have no faith at all in the blatant liars within the Leave campaign who will presumably be part of the government post leave if that happens. I am thinking of Boris Johnson, Gove and Priti Patel, all pretty detestable individuals whose interests are certainly not for ordinary British people.

Prescient

 

[shmmeee]

Dont cry sweetheart, we've had 3 years of MPs going against its constituents wishes to try and get their own way...

It's about time quite frankly that somebody stood up and said fuck you.. No more

Dont like it.. Don't care

What utter utter bollocks.

We had an election. We elected a parliament. If you don’t like what they think it’s because you’re out of touch with the will of the people. Deal with it.

 

[Grendel]

She has the power of refusal and preventing the clown's blatant abuse of power lies in the interests of the country. She can show for once that she isn't a pointless figurehead

Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?

 

[skybluetony176]

Nope I’m not wrong as the act states that the government can decide on the date of the election so there is nothing to stop them having it early November and instantly dissolving parliament

That isn’t actually what you said. You said that only the opposition can trigger an election. So you’re still A) Wrong B) backtracking and C) attempting to do B with deflection.

 

[torchomatic]

This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.

 

[Grendel]

How can he do that with what this clown has just done?

He can call a vote of no confidence win it and then he or any other party has 14 days to establish a new government

There is a procedure to prevent him from doing this

 

[skybluetony176]

Not sure - interestingly the last monarch that did it was executed....

When was that? Presumably before Women and the Plebs were allowed to vote?

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?

It would be interesting if she actually refused to see how the extremists reacted to it.

 

[Grendel]

This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.

Then Johnson calls a November election - perfect for Johnson as the Brexit party are then null and void

 

[Ian1779]

The proroguing of Parliament requires royal assent. It is completely within her power

But her role is to ‘work on the advice of the Prime Minister’ so how does that work?

Be clear - I want this stopped as well, but can this be a viable avenue?

 

[Grendel]

But her role is to ‘work on the advice of the Prime Minister’ so how does that work?

Be clear - I want this stopped as well, but can this be a viable avenue?

Of course not - she cannot intervene on government advice

 

[skybluetony176]

This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.

I think Rory Stewart pretty much said he would vote against the government in a vote of no confidence should the next PM try to suspend parliament during his leadership campaign. He then increased his number of votes from MP’s in the next round. There’s certainly evidence to suggest a rebellion amongst Tory MP’s is possible and it could backfire on Johnson.

 

[Grendel]

I think Rory Stewart pretty much said he would vote against the government in a vote of no confidence should the next PM try to suspend parliament during his leadership campaign. He then increased his number of votes from MP’s in the next round. There’s certainly evidence to suggest a rebellion amongst Tory MP’s is possible and it could backfire on Johnson.

At least we will then be out of the Eu before an election and notwithstanding at least 6 labour MPs and one ex Labour are likely to vote for the government

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course not - she cannot intervene on government advice

But if she suspended parliament at the PM’s request minus a vote in the commons she is intervening. It’s only a vote in parliament that can stop her intervening as she will simply be following protocol. Without that vote whether she accepts or refuses the request she is intervening.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh I thought you were against a monarchy?

I am and for the record, a constitutional elected head of state would have the same power. Come on G, she either has a meaningful role or she doesn't and if the former is true, let's elect one instead and if the latter is true, get rid

 

[Grendel]

But if she suspended parliament at the PM’s request minus a vote in the commons she is intervening. It’s only a vote in parliament that can stop her intervening as she will simply be following protocol. Without that vote whether she accepts or refuses the request she is intervening.

Wrong constitutionally she is not intervening she is merely following the advice of the prime minister

Yesterday’s actions by the opposition leaders and the plan of attack was deeply unconstitutional and it’s likely even if with the speakers help they could force some odd piece of legislation through it cannot be enforced as the government can just say no

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He can call a vote of no confidence win it and then he or any other party has 14 days to establish a new government

There is a procedure to prevent him from doing this

You and I both know he wouldn't succeed

 

[shmmeee]

This could actually backfire on Johnson. Before this I don't think Corbyn had a nope of hell of getting a VONC through, I think he may now scrape through and get the numbers he needs.

Johnson wants a VONC. He wants an election run on “these bastards are stopping Brexit”

 

[skybluetony176]

Then Johnson calls a November election - perfect for Johnson as the Brexit party are then null and void

Johnson will have 14 days from the vote to try and overturn it. If he fails to do that I’m not sure he’ll even have a say in when the next general election will be as he’ll no longer be PM so I’m not sure how he’ll be able to delay it until November. I think you’re possibly wrong. Again.