The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (8 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

He was always going to bring a deal back - it’s a very predictable action - you could say well done Johnson for actually properly trying to play all his cards rather than put the ace in bin before talks started

Glad he's trying to get a good new deal that doesn't tie us to the EU forever!

 

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[skybluetony176]

The leave card with no deal as an option. I’m sure you said at the start he’d repackage the old deal

May didn’t put it in the bin either. Her stance from the start was always these are my redlines and no deal is better than a bad deal.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Glad he's trying to get a good new deal that doesn't tie us to the EU forever!

How do you know he isn't? Are you one of his aides/advisors?

 

[Grendel]

May didn’t put it in the bin either. Her stance from the start was always these are my redlines and no deal is better than a bad deal.

Yeah she did. Her public statement was a sound byte - negotiators have confirmed it was never an option when the deal was discussed

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah she did. Her public statement was a sound byte - negotiators have confirmed it was never an option when the deal was discussed

So are you suggesting that David Davis turned up on day one of negotiations and said to his EU counterparts I know we’re saying that no deal is better than a bad deal but don’t believe it?

 

[Grendel]

So are you suggesting that David Davis turned up on day one of negotiations and said to his EU counterparts I know we’re saying that no deal is better than a bad deal but don’t believe it?

I’m only repeating the words used by those who’ve publicly said as much who were there. Believe what you want. Your attempts at wumming and point scoring are becoming tiresome

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It is still down to posturing on both sides. And like I have always said it will go down to the wire. The EU doesn't have to budge an inch until the end. But BJ has made it so nobody knows where the end is. Is it the end of this month or the end of next month?

He previously wanted the May deal to go through. And he isn't exactly truthful. Just like the vast majority of them. It could be down to accepting the old deal with a few changes. Nobody knows.

So stop celebrating. Looks to me like close ties to the EU could continue. A good result I would say. At least a good result for me anyway.

This is why there is no point panicking now...just like there wasn't 2yrs ago. Everything goes down to the wire with EU negotiations.

I disagree on "the end"...Bojo has been clear on that from the start...31st October. Of course that doesn't mean he will not ask for an extension, especially if significant progress is made.

As far as truthful goes, none of them are. The EU wouldn't entertain any change to WA initially, now look at them! A deal is in sight by the looks. The final deal will resemble the WA as first put quite closely, but even Juncker has wavered on the Backstop so it is a case (as always) of watch this space. And not believing everything (or better still anything) we are told in the media in anything but small measure.

Celebrating???

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[SkyblueBazza]

I reckon it's MPs forcing him to take no deal off the table which has pushed towards a deal. The only way he can save face is if we actually do leave on the 31st, and now the only way that can happen is with a deal.

Well done MPs, pulling us back from the brink of the abyss, caused by a reckless, dishonest prime minister.

I think you are wrong. He wanted no deal as a final option...a weapon.

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[SkyBlueDom26]

I think you are wrong. He wanted no deal as a final option...a weapon.

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Literally, so all the remoaners passing the bill have weakened our hand in negotiations

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m only repeating the words used by those who’ve publicly said as much who were there. Believe what you want. Your attempts at wumming and point scoring are becoming tiresome

So do you believe that DavidDavis turned up on day one of negotiations and said to his EU counterparts I know we’re saying that no deal is better than a bad deal but don’t believe it?

It’s a straight yes or no question.

 

[Grendel]

So do you believe that DavidDavis turned up on day one of negotiations and said to his EU counterparts I know we’re saying that no deal is better than a bad deal but don’t believe it?

It’s a straight yes or no question.

I’m from now on ignoring the little boy at the back of the class squealing for attention

There are plenty of adults on here prepared for a sensible argument and not just trying to gain a few likes of their intellectual betters - bye Tony

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Literally, so all the remoaners passing the bill have weakened our hand in negotiations

Moron

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Moron

The morons are the ones who have weakened our hand

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m from now on ignoring the little boy at the back of the class squealing for attention

There are plenty of adults on here prepared for a sensible argument and not just trying to gain a few likes of their intellectual betters - bye Tony

How do you class sticking your fingers in your ears and going la la la la la as adult behaviour?

 

[skybluetony176]

The morons are the ones who have weakened our hand

That depends on his true intentions. Which non of us know yet.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

That depends on his true intentions. Which non of us know yet.

His intentions have been known, as he has always said he wants to get a new deal

 

[Deleted member 5849]

His intentions have been known, as he has always said he wants to get a new deal

Honest Boris, who can truly be classed as a liar.

The morons are people who can't think for themselves but use vacuous soundbytes with no real understanding.

 

[skybluetony176]

His intentions have been known, as he has always said he wants to get a new deal

Please. This is Boris we’re talking about. You have to remember who his backers are and how these disaster capitalist are set to benefit from a chaotic no deal. I suspect parliament forcing him to negotiate was never part of the plan and now Boris is going to have to be judged on something tangible.

 

[Sick Boy]

This is why there is no point panicking now...just like there wasn't 2yrs ago. Everything goes down to the wire with EU negotiations.

I disagree on "the end"...Bojo has been clear on that from the start...31st October. Of course that doesn't mean he will not ask for an extension, especially if significant progress is made.

As far as truthful goes, none of them are. The EU wouldn't entertain any change to WA initially, now look at them! A deal is in sight by the looks. The final deal will resemble the WA as first put quite closely, but even Juncker has wavered on the Backstop so it is a case (as always) of watch this space. And not believing everything (or better still anything) we are told in the media in anything but small measure.

Celebrating???

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I don't think the Backstop will be wavered, I think it will repackaged, essentially.

 

[Ian1779]

The morons are the ones who have weakened our hand

Or maybe it’s those that think the EU negotiations are like an episode of the Apprentice.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The morons are people who can't think for themselves but use vacuous soundbytes with no real understanding.

Dude.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think you are wrong. He wanted no deal as a final option...a weapon.

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Will we invade Ireland using his £15 billion bridge?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Will we invade Ireland using his £15 billion bridge?

Going by his 'think positive' mantra he's probably going with 'Love Can Build A Bridge' as his next one.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Going by his 'think positive' mantra he's probably going with 'Love Can Build A Bridge' as his next one.

Speaking of positive thinking, from 'Action for Brexit':

To all the school kids going on 'strike' for Climate Change:
You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.
You want a TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.
You spend all day and night on electronic devices.
More than ever, you don't walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke local roads and worsen rush hour traffic.
You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy,
Your entertainment comes from electric devices.
Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.
The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.
How about this...
Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school. Switch off your devices and read a book.
Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.
No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little 'princesses', inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a 'noble cause' while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.
Wake up, grow up and learn to research facts and think for yourself and not blindly accept the words and thoughts of others - I don't think you formulated this action plan all by your self - suspect you may have had some influence and 'guidance' from those you trust ....a word of warning, be cautious of the influence of the 'left' because there may be a time in the future that you will be the ones left out...

 

[skybluetony176]

Speaking of positive thinking, from 'Action for Brexit':

Demanding clean air = communist.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Demanding clean air = communist.

I'd love an air conditioned classroom, never had one

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Will we invade Ireland using his £15 billion bridge?

Doubt it

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[skybluetony176]

I'd love an air conditioned classroom, never had one

I don’t think either of my kids schools have air conditioning. It’s just the usual bollocks from these groups.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I don’t think either of my kids schools have air conditioning. It’s just the usual bollocks from these groups.

At the end of the day - this generation of kids is the one that really needs to & can do an awful lot to change the future of the planet. Just takes more than a few million in the UK to affect the kind of change to make the necessary difference though according to "the experts"

BUT - properly implemented such mass behaviours can be orchestrated. Apparently many of the Japanese attending world cup rugby matches have learned the words of the nations involved in each game...just for goodwill & good atmosphere. They sang the Russian anthem as well as their own today so it is reckoned!

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

At the end of the day - this generation of kids is the one that really needs to & can do an awful lot to change the future of the planet. Just takes more than a few million in the UK to affect the kind of change to make the necessary difference though according to "the experts"

BUT - properly implemented such mass behaviours can be orchestrated. Apparently many of the Japanese attending world cup rugby matches have learned the words of the nations involved in each game...just for goodwill & good atmosphere. They sang the Russian anthem as well as their own today so it is reckoned!

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Why do you put experts in inverted commas? The science on this can be understood by any teenager and it’s incredible that even now there are sceptics not least the Irritating Orange.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Doubt it

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How does it rate as an idea compared to:

Offering pork pies to Trump for a trade deal

Comparing Muslims to letterboxes and burglars

Suspending Parliament for longer so nothing can get passed and telling porkies to the Queen in the process

Buying a massive water cannon

Building a bridge to France

Writing articles for and against the EU before making a political calculation

And many more

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is why there is no point panicking now...just like there wasn't 2yrs ago. Everything goes down to the wire with EU negotiations.

I disagree on "the end"...Bojo has been clear on that from the start...31st October. Of course that doesn't mean he will not ask for an extension, especially if significant progress is made.

As far as truthful goes, none of them are. The EU wouldn't entertain any change to WA initially, now look at them! A deal is in sight by the looks. The final deal will resemble the WA as first put quite closely, but even Juncker has wavered on the Backstop so it is a case (as always) of watch this space. And not believing everything (or better still anything) we are told in the media in anything but small measure.

Celebrating???

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Jesus wept

 

[fernandopartridge]

Literally, so all the remoaners passing the bill have weakened our hand in negotiations

Drivel

 

[fernandopartridge]

The morons are the ones who have weakened our hand

There is no 'weakening of hand', the respective reality of the positions of the UK and the EU are the same. This is not bargaining to buy some fake clobber in Turkey you cretin.

 

[CCFCSteve]

There is no 'weakening of hand', the respective reality of the positions of the UK and the EU are the same. This is not bargaining to buy some fake clobber in Turkey you cretin.

Bit unfair to call him a cretin. Many people believe that Johnson’s apparent seriousness to resolve the matter or else by 31 Oct has focussed EU minds, for example the WA, which was not up for renegotiation, can now be amended (if it delivers the same outcome/protections to the original backstop)

I find it pretty offensive when people dismiss the removal of No deal as irrelevant by arguing that it isn’t like buying a car, house or ‘fake clobber from turkey’ again, treating people who suggest this as idiots. Most people realise it’s different, however unless you’re involved in the negotiations, how on earth do you know how the EU react to positioning by the UK ? (you don’t !). I know a lot of people (remain and leave) who believe talking No deal off the table would be detrimental to our negotiating position, many of whom I trust the intelligence and judgement of over others that use the alternative argument.

Ps Let’s reverse the argument. Now the EU can pretty much dictate the terms of the extension due to a remain Parliament. If they say two years and labour refuses a vote of no confidence, what are we supposed to do ? In that time we have to continue to contribute the same amount into the EU pot (£15bn last year apparently as our growth is higher than most EU countries). We could therefore ultimately end up paying more than the agreed divorce bill ?! Also, the longer it drags on, the weaker our economic position due to the continued uncertainty and the more likely the public get weary and may accept staying in (after losing the war of attrition), again strengthening the EUs position.

So, if you look at it from the other perspective, in any negotiation you need to be willing and prepared to walk away, even if it means a potential negative impact (as the alternative might be even worse than that negative impact). Unfortunately, we haven’t properly prepared (due to people like Hammond and the noise from remainers saying it’s a waste of money....no it’s not, it’s common sense !)....that doesn’t mean we should rule out the option though.