The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (107 Viewers)

[Astute]

I am sure on my travels around the internet tonight the Guardian are suggesting that there are the numbers for the deal to be passed tomorrow.

If the EU think they are tough at driving deals through they sure are going to have some fun time getting the DUP to support anything which isn't going to cost them both arms and legs.

I think the vote tomorrow will come down to how many Labour MPs are going to vote for the deal tomorrow to tip the balance.

Any deal going through will come down to conscience against keeping their job at the next GE. It is easy for those who have a conscience that agrees with their voting constituency. But about half will be at odds.

Follow party guidelines?

Just a normal day with Brexit. Nobody has a clue.

 

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[shmmeee]

Boris may be a childish twat but he isn't an idiot. You don't get to hold the positions he has by being an idiot.

As he isn't an idiot he will know that having some sort of agreement was very important. He never wanted to leave without a trade deal. Now they are going to talk trade deals if it all goes through. If it doesn't go through he will be seen as not being at fault.

Not bad for someone who many like to make out to be an idiot.

From what I can make out he was gung ho for no deal on Cummings advice, got spooked by the spooks and changed his mind and decided to throw the DUP under the bus in the knowledge enough we’re scared in parliament to vote for anything.

He’s said himself his talent is looking foolish all the time so no one knows when it’s genuine. Time will tell how good he is, he may have held those positions, but his record hasn’t been great. Sacked from the press, expensive vanity projects in London, constant gaffes as foreign secretary. Those closest to him say he’s a nice bloke but you wouldn’t want him running the place. I’m not sure I buy the hidden genius story just yet.

 

[dutchman]

'Convenient' how both parties have agreed a deal just before the voting deadline so that Parliament doesn't have time to scrutinise the small print and uncover any timebombs which might be lurking there?

 

[Astute]

From what I can make out he was gung ho for no deal on Cummings advice, got spooked by the spooks and changed his mind and decided to throw the DUP under the bus in the knowledge enough we’re scared in parliament to vote for anything.

He’s said himself his talent is looking foolish all the time so no one knows when it’s genuine. Time will tell how good he is, he may have held those positions, but his record hasn’t been great. Sacked from the press, expensive vanity projects in London, constant gaffes as foreign secretary. Those closest to him say he’s a nice bloke but you wouldn’t want him running the place. I’m not sure I buy the hidden genius story just yet.

You don't have to be a hidden genius if you are not an idiot.

I don't know if this agreement is any good. We will have to see what happens if it gets pushed through. What is most important is what happens afterwards. What sort of deal is agreed on. For all we know we could end up with Brexit in name only.

So Boris and others have been talking to those in charge of the EU. Nothing was going to change to the so called backstop. Suddenly the backstop has gone. Agreements on what happens inside Ireland are agreed in days. Why is this? Sounds like much more is already agreed. There us a unique deal with the EU over Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another unique deal with the EU and the rest of the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

You don't have to be a hidden genius if you are not an idiot.

I don't know if this agreement is any good. We will have to see what happens if it gets pushed through. What is most important is what happens afterwards. What sort of deal is agreed on. For all we know we could end up with Brexit in name only.

So Boris and others have been talking to those in charge of the EU. Nothing was going to change to the so called backstop. Suddenly the backstop has gone. Agreements on what happens inside Ireland are agreed in days. Why is this? Sounds like much more is already agreed. There us a unique deal with the EU over Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another unique deal with the EU and the rest of the UK.

The backstop is gone because the UK made a major concession and opted for something that is actually more definitive than the backstop.

 

[Astute]

'Convenient' how both parties have agreed a deal just before the voting deadline so that Parliament doesn't have time to scrutinise the small print and uncover any timebombs which might be lurking there?

It is nothing more than an agreement that will allow a deal to happen. A big part of the deal that has yet to be decided on will be what happens with Ireland long term.

People have been so engrossed on the leave/remain argument that they haven't considered much more than the 50/50 call. The good thing about this agreement being pushed through is the serious talks can commence. And I think you will be left a little upset when you find out that leave doesn't mean leave. If anything leaving with a deal will take years to complete.

And all the rest is just guesswork. The EU will want to keep things as close to what they presently are. I think we will continue to pay money into the EU. I wouldn't expect trade to change too much. Preferential immigration?

But of course we will have those who 'know' what will and what won't happen.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Any deal going through will come down to conscience against keeping their job at the next GE. It is easy for those who have a conscience that agrees with their voting constituency. But about half will be at odds.

Follow party guidelines?

Just a normal day with Brexit. Nobody has a clue.

That is definitely the liberal way to approach this subject, and wouldn't disagree with you but the simple creature which is known as a politician follows two rules.

1) How to gain power.

2) How to keep power.

Politics is probably the most amoral profession on the planet.

The DUP, being the biggest party in Nortern Ireland, seeing that there would be a referendum every four years, would realise that the deal is a huge bargaining chip for them. Stormont hasn't sat in a number of years, since coincidentally when they had part of the balance of power in Parliament. It would be up to the EU to prove their worth to the DUP for staying in the single market if the referendum on Northern Ireland staying within the single market ever takes place.

History shows politicians will screw anything to do with what is advantageous for them.

It's the nature of the political beast everywhere.

 

[Sick Boy]

But of course we will have those who 'know' what will and what won't happen.

Like those who claim that their opinion is ‘the truth’?

 

[Sick Boy]

The DUP, being the biggest party in Nortern Ireland seeing that there would be a referendum every four years, would realise that the deal is a huge bargaining chip for them. Seeing that Stormont hasn't sat in a number of years, since coincidentally they had part of the balance of power in Parliament, it would be up to the EU to prove their worth to the DUP the worth of staying in the single market.

History shows they will screw anything to do with Northern Ireland in to what is advantageous for them.

It's the nature of the political beast.

Presumably you’re talking about Great Britain.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Presumably you’re talking about Great Britain.

Politics is the same everywhere.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Machevelli's 'The Prince' is the politicians gospel.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You don't have to be a hidden genius if you are not an idiot.

I don't know if this agreement is any good. We will have to see what happens if it gets pushed through. What is most important is what happens afterwards. What sort of deal is agreed on. For all we know we could end up with Brexit in name only.

So Boris and others have been talking to those in charge of the EU. Nothing was going to change to the so called backstop. Suddenly the backstop has gone. Agreements on what happens inside Ireland are agreed in days. Why is this? Sounds like much more is already agreed. There us a unique deal with the EU over Ireland. I wouldn't be surprised if there was another unique deal with the EU and the rest of the UK.

I think the reason the Ireland stuff was agreed in days is because this plan is largely the original plan that was put forward before the backstop. Much of the groundwork on it was already there.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I think the reason the Ireland stuff was agreed in days is because this plan is largely the original plan that was put forward before the backstop. Much of the groundwork on it was already there.

In my opinion the backstop as part of the Good Friday agreement is not the overriding concern of the EU. It's the protection of the single market through the Irish border.

I am guessing the sales of white vans for private individuals will go through the roof soon if the deal is accepted and when it comes into force.

From what I can understand the border down the Irish Sea only applies to businesses.

 

[Sick Boy]

In my opinion the backstop is not the overriding concern of the EU. It's the protection of the single market through the Irish border.

I am guessing the sales of white vans for private individuals will go through the roof soon if the deal is accepted and when it comes into force.

From what I can understand the border down the Irish Sea only applies to businesses.

If there is to be a free trade deal it’s likely that the UK will end up aligned with regulations like food standards.

And the current deal is much mor definitive than the backstop and has been a huge UK concession. Imagine what’s going to happen with the USA, which is why the UK needs to stay as close to the EU as possible.

And of course the GFA is a key concern, as well as protecting the SM.

 

[Philosoraptor]

If there is to be a free trade deal it’s likely that the UK will end up aligned with regulations like food standards.

I agree. I have always thought any break up from the EU will be a slow progression over many years.

Close alignment at the moment seems about right.

 

[Sick Boy]

I agree. I have always thought any break up from the EU will be a slow progression over many years.

Close alignment at the moment seems about right.

It’ll take decades and think and hope the UK will not deregulate to appease the USA.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It’ll take decades and think and hope the UK will not deregulate to appease the USA.

If we do, at some point the USA will become our bogeyman to blame for our problems.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Boris may be a childish twat but he isn't an idiot. You don't get to hold the positions he has by being an idiot.

As he isn't an idiot he will know that having some sort of agreement was very important. He never wanted to leave without a trade deal. Now they are going to talk trade deals if it all goes through. If it doesn't go through he will be seen as not being at fault.

Not bad for someone who many like to make out to be an idiot.

He’s a liar though

 

[Grendel]

He’s a liar though

So are the leaders of the other 2 main parties and also Sturgeon

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So are the leaders of the other 2 main parties and also Sturgeon

They’ve made up stories and published them??? What do you mean?

 

[Grendel]

They’ve made up stories and published them??? What do you mean?

well Mr Corbyn describes the Eu as this

Jeremy Corbyn's views on Brexit: a long held stance on Europe

Now you don’t change they form of in bred ideology so everything he says today is a lie to gain power

as for Swinson are you serious?

On Europe;

Jo Swinson said the Liberal Democrats supported an EU referendum in 2008

On austerity:

Can you vote for Jo Swinson if you oppose austerity?

On referendums when it suits

Why do the media keep allowing Jo Swinson to lie about indyref2?

read this

AAV: Watch Jo Swinson lie through her teeth

Swinson is the most appalling leader I’ve seen in Parliament. She couldn’t lie straight in bed

I can’t be bothered to even talk about the national socialist of Scotland who genuinely is a despised and hated figure by many north of the border

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

One can ch

well Mr Corbyn describes the Eu as this

Jeremy Corbyn's views on Brexit: a long held stance on Europe

Now you don’t change they form of in bred ideology so everything he says today is a lie to gain power

as for Swinson are you serious?

On Europe;

Jo Swinson said the Liberal Democrats supported an EU referendum in 2008

On austerity:

Can you vote for Jo Swinson if you oppose austerity?

On referendums when it suits

Why do the media keep allowing Jo Swinson to lie about indyref2?

read this

AAV: Watch Jo Swinson lie through her teeth

Swinson is the most appalling leader I’ve seen in Parliament. She couldn’t lie straight in bed

I can’t be bothered to even talk about the national socialist of Scotland who genuinely is a despised and hated figure by many north of the border

Changing opinion is not lying.

 

[Grendel]

One can ch

Changing opinion is not lying.

lol

 

[skybluetony176]

well Mr Corbyn describes the Eu as this

Jeremy Corbyn's views on Brexit: a long held stance on Europe

Now you don’t change they form of in bred ideology so everything he says today is a lie to gain power

as for Swinson are you serious?

On Europe;

Jo Swinson said the Liberal Democrats supported an EU referendum in 2008

On austerity:

Can you vote for Jo Swinson if you oppose austerity?

On referendums when it suits

Why do the media keep allowing Jo Swinson to lie about indyref2?

read this

AAV: Watch Jo Swinson lie through her teeth

Swinson is the most appalling leader I’ve seen in Parliament. She couldn’t lie straight in bed

I can’t be bothered to even talk about the national socialist of Scotland who genuinely is a despised and hated figure by many north of the border

You seem to be struggling to understanding the difference between a changing of opinion and a lie.

 

[shmmeee]

Just seems more like trying to get extra money rather than actually concerned about childcare to me. Just seems a waste of debating time even bringing it up, surely it's something you'd speak to your party leader about?

The LOTO doesn’t decide what Parliament does, the Speaker does.

 

[shmmeee]

That is definitely the liberal way to approach this subject, and wouldn't disagree with you but the simple creature which is known as a politician follows two rules.

1) How to gain power.

2) How to keep power.

Politics is probably the most amoral profession on the planet.

The DUP, being the biggest party in Nortern Ireland, seeing that there would be a referendum every four years, would realise that the deal is a huge bargaining chip for them. Stormont hasn't sat in a number of years, since coincidentally when they had part of the balance of power in Parliament. It would be up to the EU to prove their worth to the DUP for staying in the single market if the referendum on Northern Ireland staying within the single market ever takes place.

History shows politicians will screw anything to do with what is advantageous for them.

It's the nature of the political beast everywhere.

Conspiratorial nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

It is nothing more than an agreement that will allow a deal to happen. A big part of the deal that has yet to be decided on will be what happens with Ireland long term.

People have been so engrossed on the leave/remain argument that they haven't considered much more than the 50/50 call. The good thing about this agreement being pushed through is the serious talks can commence. And I think you will be left a little upset when you find out that leave doesn't mean leave. If anything leaving with a deal will take years to complete.

And all the rest is just guesswork. The EU will want to keep things as close to what they presently are. I think we will continue to pay money into the EU. I wouldn't expect trade to change too much. Preferential immigration?

But of course we will have those who 'know' what will and what won't happen.

It just changes the debate so that Remain becomes far less appealing. Once we are in the transition period we are out and we’ve lost the best deal any country has ever had. If we then decided to remain we’d be applying from a standing start I believe.

Brexiters have fucked this country more than any group in modern history.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Conspiratorial nonsense.

Okay then..

Former Lord Mayor and council leader Nick Nolan has died

The Prince - Wikipedia

 

[Philosoraptor]

I take it political philosophy has never been big in Coventry Labour.

 

[Grappa]

I used to be pretentious too.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I do have one question which has been niggling for the last couple do years.

If Government investment has been missed in West Midlands for the last twenty years or so compared to other parts of the UK, and one of the worst places for Government investment in the West Midlands has been Coventry. What have the Coventry MPs and Councillors been up to for the last twenty years?

 

[Grendel]

6/5 on SkyBet

22/1 for a dead heat which is worth a bet given how close it is

Wonder if there were odds for the deal not even going to the house as this now seems very likely

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

More delay to Brexit then, excellent!

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[CCFCSteve]

Wonder if there were odds for the deal not even going to the house as this now seems very likely

I had a few quid on Betfair where the wording was ‘Meaningful vote to pass on 19/10/19’

I bet ‘no’...think I should’ve won but just got cash back !!!

I think Letwin (possibly) had good intentions in terms of the amendment, thinking those initially backing the deal may then disrupt it passing pre 31 Oct. unfortunately, there are plenty of others that will potentially use the opportunity for their own gains

...and so it continues !!!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

He’s a liar though

Bit rich for the rest of MPs to keep on about that though - the majority of ?
MPs were voted in on a manifesto promising to deliver Brexit. Seems they were lying though.

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