The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (54 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Actually incorrect.

Noel's deal or no deal what introduced after the referendum.

The referendum was a clear in/out option.

So why did Farage/Alexander/JRM/Gove go around talking about keeping aspects like the SM etc? The deal or no deal has come about because of what the leave campaign put forward during the Brexit campaign.

FWIW I am in agreement with you that to leave the EU should have meant no deal. But it's due to the leave campaign that it wasn't seen as such by the public.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Boris deal will get through today if its voted on!! Apparently up to 15 labour mps will back it

I think the irony is that it's arguably got more chance of passing today if it's heard than it did on Saturday. Whips have had more time to get round and convince people it's in their own best interests to vote for it.

Still wouldn't be confident to predict the outcome either way though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Literally this!! Its a remainers parliament who will stop at nothing to cancel brexit

A supposedly Remainers parliament that was elected AFTER the Brexit referendum....

 

[skybluetony176]

So why are you coming back at me with a response suggesting that I am trying to re-write the meaning of the word veto???

All I have claimed is that you shot yourself in the foot because from day 1 post referendum result you have claimed time & time again that leavers were either along the lines of being nationalistic or ignorant & didn't know what they were voting for. You seemed to to be trying to deny that what I said was true, then when I said it was a stated goal...I suspect you went & looked it up...then come back with distractions about veto shit.

Not sure why you can't just acknowledge it is a goal of the EU which you appear at least to be sketchy about....& therefore it could be levelled that you & other remainers did not actually know what you were voting for if you were voting for things to stay the same - because change within the EU is just as certain as change outside of it.

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Given that I acknowledged the policy by confirming we had a veto on it and you’ve then gone on to accusing me of denying that there’s any such policy I think that I’m justified in accusing you of rewriting the meaning of the word veto because actually you’ve done it twice now.

 

[Philosoraptor]

So why did Farage/Alexander/JRM/Gove go around talking about keeping aspects like the SM etc? The deal or no deal has come about because of what the leave campaign put forward during the Brexit campaign.

Here's a neutral fact checking website.

What was promised about the customs union before the referendum?

 

[Grendel]

So why did Farage/Alexander/JRM/Gove go around talking about keeping aspects like the SM etc? The deal or no deal has come about because of what the leave campaign put forward during the Brexit campaign.

FWIW I am in agreement with you that to leave the EU should have meant no deal. But it's due to the leave campaign that it wasn't seen as such by the public.

there is no such thing as no deal

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

there is no such thing as no deal

Best tell Farage then:

"No deal. No problem"
"No deal is the best deal"

 

[Philosoraptor]

Let's go back to 2016.. This is what we were voting for then...

 

[skybluetony176]

Actually incorrect.

Noel's deal or no deal what introduced after the referendum.

The referendum was a clear in/out option.

Actually not

Here’s a link to the official vote leave website on what leave looks like. 'Leave' looks like... as you can see it’s all about deals and treaties. Including “There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it.” Turns out we won’t, even with Boris’ deal.

There is pretty much nothing that the people behind it have kept to by choice on that page (or any other for that matter). Of what has happened on that site has been forced by private individuals through the courts and our parliamentary sovereignty. Probably why non of the leavers ever link the official leave campaigns website to back their arguments, it only contradicts them. That’s before you even start throwing the empty rhetoric of “easiest deal in the world”, “the French wants to sell us cheese” etc etc that was getting spewed out on a daily basis in front of the cameras.

We were promised we’d leave with a deal. It’s not even questionable.

 

[skybluetony176]

Actually incorrect.

Noel's deal or no deal what introduced after the referendum.

The referendum was a clear in/out option.

See link already provided in the post above from the official leave campaign to see what out was promised.

 

[Philosoraptor]

This is analysis from a particular viewpoint of one side of the referendum debate.

The referendum was always a constitutional question.

Never an economical or political one of what would happen afterwards.

You answered the question of what was put before you by Government.

Either side does not have the means to demand what the Government should do after the vote.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This is analysis from a particular viewpoint of one side of the referendum debate.

The referendum was always a constitutional question.

Never an economical or political one.

A constitutional question with major economic impacts.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is analysis from a particular viewpoint of one side of the referendum debate.

The referendum was always a constitutional question.

Never an economical or political one.

Not according to the official vote leave website. Again, see link already provided.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I've read it.

Are you saying it was Government policy to do what either camp said on winning?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've read it.

Are you saying it was Government policy to do what either camp said on winning?

But if what that camp are claiming and people vote based on that, it has to be taken into account.

 

[skybluetony176]

I've read it.

Are you saying it was Government policy to do what either camp said on winning?

No. I’m saying Boris, Gove, Raab, Cummings ect promised leave with a deal. They even went as far as we’ll join EFTA and as far as I’m aware that involves membership of the Single Market and Schengen.

You told me I was incorrect when actually if you refer back to what was printed on the official leave website, fronted by the PM, a large proportion of his front bench and the PM’s top advisor I’m actually far from incorrect, I’m bang on the money and unfortunately for anyone who wants to dispute that it’s all still there in their own words to confirm that. They’ve changed their mind when no one else is allowed to.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Shock didn't see that one coming, he's an absolute disgrace

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Meant to be impartial... yet admits voting to remain in 2016

Now he is deliberately trying to delay the brexit vote knowing other amendments can be made to it first.... absolute joker

 

[skybluetony176]

Yay. Parliamentary sovereignty is alive and well. Just like the leavers voted for. I suspect they’ll be delighted by this decision.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Yay. Parliamentary sovereignty is alive and well. Just like the leavers voted for. I suspect they’ll be delighted by this decision.

Yeahhhh lets block the vote for a deal which will probably pass, idiots

 

[skybluetony176]

Meant to be impartial... yet admits voting to remain in 2016

Now he is deliberately trying to delay the brexit vote knowing other amendments can be made to it first.... absolute joker

You do understand that the government made this motion knowing full well it would be rejected? They could have started motions today for the legal text instead but decided to piss around doing this instead. It’s the government who is drawing out the process no one else. They’re too busy concocting scenarios to play the victim to a select crowd instead of getting on with the business of Brexit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeahhhh lets block the vote for a deal which will probably pass, idiots

The government should stick to the process that was passed on Saturday then and stop delaying the final vote on the deal by trying to put the cart before horse. You do realise that it’s the leave government that is taking the piss out of you and no one else?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Meant to be impartial... yet admits voting to remain in 2016

Now he is deliberately trying to delay the brexit vote knowing other amendments can be made to it first.... absolute joker

The man needs a stint in prison so he can appreciate what freedom means. He doesn't really appreciate how hated he already was before this.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

The government should stick to the process that was passed on Saturday then and stop delaying the final vote on the deal by trying to put the cart before horse. You do realise that it’s the leave government that is taking the piss out of you and no one else?

How on earth do you come up with such stuff as this ?

 

[Grendel]

Yeahhhh lets block the vote for a deal which will probably pass, idiots

The only reason the legislation was put in on Saturday was to allow a first amendment to it

The deal will now not be allowed to be voted on until grieve and co see what other amendments they can tag onto it. This will be a second referendum if they have the numbers or a customs union (more likely)

It’s a laughable state of affairs - then the government has to refuse to re introduce the deal as it’s not the deal that was initially put forward

back to square one

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Given that I acknowledged the policy by confirming we had a veto on it and you’ve then gone on to accusing me of denying that there’s any such policy I think that I’m justified in accusing you of rewriting the meaning of the word veto because actually you’ve done it twice now.

I didn't bring up vetos Tony - you did...in some extremely obtuse way of acknowledging something that you must have though was wrong!

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[SkyBlueDom26]

The only reason the legislation was put in on Saturday was to allow a first amendment to it

The deal will now not be allowed to be voted on until grieve and co see what other amendments they can tag onto it. This will be a second referendum if they have the numbers or a customs union (more likely)

It’s a laughable state of affairs - then the government has to refuse to re introduce the deal as it’s not the deal that was initially put forward

back to square one

Joke Isn't it mate! Bring on the elections hopefully these remoaners get to see what the public really think of them when they lose their seats

 

[djr8369]

Lot of people desperate to repeat the governments propaganda lines today. Precedent is sacred one minute then to be discarded the moment it suits their case.


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[Grendel]

It’s also hilarious that Letwin is now seen as some kind of hero against the hard right

He’s an utter cretin and a laughing stock who is like a Harry Enfield character

Letwin is the instigator of the poll tax who thought it was a good idea to try it out in Scotland.

 

[Grendel]

Lot of people desperate to repeat the governments propaganda lines today. Precedent is sacred one minute then to be discarded the moment it suits their case.


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I think your confused and mean Mr Bercow. I don’t care. Every one of these absurd interventions increases the chance of a Tory government at the next election

Im still waiting on your answers by the way.

 

[CCFCSteve]

You have to doubt it don’t you. It seems as though the government is still playing silly games and are setting their own deal up to fail so we can leave without a deal “accidentally”.

I don’t believe this is the case at all Tony (it’s also in the hands of the house whether it gets through or not)

Your earlier post is correct though, the government will go through the legislation voting route so it doesn’t make a major difference whether Bercow allowed a vote today or not (he was never going to). Not sure what harm it would’ve done to have allowed a vote today mind.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t believe this is the case at all Tony (it’s also in the hands of the house whether it gets through or not)

Your earlier post is correct though, the government will go through the legislation voting route so it doesn’t make a major difference whether Bercow allowed a vote today or not (he was never going to). Not sure what harm it would’ve done to have allowed a vote today mind.

he wants to wait until the opposition decide what amendment to tag onto the Letwin bill

 

[djr8369]

I think your confused and mean Mr Bercow. I don’t care. Every one of these absurd interventions increases the chance of a Tory government at the next election

Im still waiting on your answers by the way.

But these aren’t absurd. Virtually everything Bercow has done has been called beforehand by the vast majority of commentators.

I don’t particularly want to have to slowly explain everything like when we had to make you understand why there would need to be a border for Ireland and why it wouldn’t just be the EU putting it there.


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[CCFCSteve]

he wants to wait until the opposition decide what amendment to tag onto the Letwin bill

gotcha, that makes more sense.