The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (53 Viewers)

[Astute]

See the other person's explanation. I was calling ADM a leaver. I was separating out the rest of you because you argue largely on why we should leave, but that doesn't necessarily make you leavers and just favour putting the poll result into practice. There are also those on this thread who mainly state the case for remain even though they voted leave.

Everyone you named is in the leave camp except for myself. And we have a few idiots on here constantly accusing me of being a leaver because I want it all done with in a way it would cause the least amount of problems. And I don't see this so called 'peoples vote' as a preferred way out although it would solve my problems if we had another go at it then actually voted remain the next time. All I can see is the chaos it would cause.

 

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[Astute]

He’s busy pointing out lies, ain’t got no time for details.


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Explain yourself for once.

There has been a lack of lies lately so I haven't been pointing any out. It has all been peoples viewpoints. And I always explain my points. This is where certain people try to twist my words or take a small sentence out of a long post out of context.

But of course you want to twist the truth and then will make out you haven't and never have done before until I point them out to you.

 

[Astute]

You must be furious with Johnson finding more ways to delay Brexit. All that time that could have been spent getting his agreement through parliament that will now, if he gets his way, be spent on a general election instead.

As we all know there will be a problem getting any sort of Brexit deal done.

Most Tory seats voted leave. Most Labour seats voted leave. But over 70% of MP's don't want Brexit to happen.

This is why we are where we are. Stuck in limbo with no way out.

 

[Astute]

All people opposed to Johnson must be spitting feathers that the opposition parties believe he is the best prime minister available

FFS that is a strange comment even for you.

On the leave side yes. Him or Farage. But the best PM must include any MP with a chance of becoming leader of their party. And there must be many better than Boris. Politics have become a joke in the UK.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Same as the anti EU Mr Corbyn then the only difference being I cannot recollect Mr Johnson supporting an organisation that murdered English citizens on their own soil

Have you got anything better than this?

 

[fernandopartridge]

That’s pretty much what Parliament does. It takes time. Even on the normal timescales there will be unexpected things coming out for years because that’s how complex it is.

Saw something yesterday that Johnson himself has contradicted himself on how NI can exercise their consent mechanism.

I’d also point out that he held back the bill for ages to avoid letting people see it, holding up his own timetable.

Indeed. The most part of this bill is 12 months old yet the bastians of democracy have kept it away from Parliament. Sky Blue Dim..

 

[fernandopartridge]

You are in a small minority then, fair play for accepting the result... as for some people on here the same can't be said

Completely without evidence as per Dim

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You're jealous because martcov has gone AWOL.

Bored him away at last?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You realise his family call him Alexander?

All this “waff waff waff Victorians playing table tennis” is a shtick for people he wants onside. He’s even said he pretends to be useless so people don’t know when it’s genuine.

Same as Mogg, cosplaying a Victorian Tory to soften his views.

Elton John's family might call him Reg' - the public at large don't, which is why I queried it...I'm thinking bitter & twisted with chip on shoulder people call him Alexander outside of his close personal circle

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[djr8369]

Explain yourself for once.

There has been a lack of lies lately so I haven't been pointing any out. It has all been peoples viewpoints. And I always explain my points. This is where certain people try to twist my words or take a small sentence out of a long post out of context.

But of course you want to twist the truth and then will make out you haven't and never have done before until I point them out to you.

Where I have twisted the truth? As discussed the other day, I’ve rephrased your words to try and understand what you’re getting at and you’ve lost your shit but that was done I’m good faith.

Just stop accusing people of lies and twisting the truth all the time. It’s tiresome, destroys honest debate and just puts further barriers up.


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[djr8369]

FFS that is a strange comment even for you.

On the leave side yes. Him or Farage. But the best PM must include any MP with a chance of becoming leader of their party. And there must be many better than Boris. Politics have become a joke in the UK.

It’s almost like Grendel is being hugely disingenuous to distract from the real issue!


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[SkyblueBazza]

He actually accuses many people of doing that, weird isn’t it.

You’re the only on here who’s suggested that Blair is a socialist. Who else on here has ever suggested that Blair is a socialist?

No it’s actually a character from a film.

You don't really deserve a response...but I did provide you a link. Not sure I specified "on here", but I specified apparently & that he led a traditionally socialist leaning party.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Certainly enough to bring it up in the first place. On a scale of 1 to 10 of how upset you should be about a grown man being addressed by his actual name with 1 being not upset at all and anything above being a ridiculous amount to be upset about a grown man being addressed by his actual name you fell into the area known as being ridiculously upset. You’re clearly not an 11, but just bringing it up excludes you from being a 1.

You're certainly a one!

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[Sick Boy]

You don't really deserve a response...but I did provide you a link. Not sure I specified "on here", but I specified apparently & that he led a traditionally socialist leaning party.

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No you didn’t provide a link when you originally posted. New Labour were not a socialist leaning party.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The fact you think k simply having the title professor makes someone an expert on everything says so so much.

I don't, you & others on here seem to argue that they are in some way because they are making an educated & well informed observation on things. You have argued against me saying that experts can be wrong, even with all the gathered data, so I view their conclusions differently to you.
As for the link I provided - that was an example among many articles on Google related to the subject...to demonstrate many people think he was more socialist than credited with.

You just refuse to be swayed on anything unless it comes from one of your luuvvies

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[SkyblueBazza]

No you didn’t provide a link when you originally posted. New Labour were not a socialist leaning party.

You're doing it again look...read my post & let me know what you think you missed

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[Sick Boy]

You're doing it again look...read my post & let me know what you think you missed

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No thanks got much better things to do. If you think New Labour were socialist then fair enough but I disagree.

 

[skybluetony176]

No thanks got much better things to do. If you think New Labour were socialist then fair enough but I disagree.

Didn’t well know socialist Margret Thatcher describe New Labour as her greatest success?

 

[Grendel]

It’s almost like Grendel is being hugely disingenuous to distract from the real issue!


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Hardly

it’s a unique moment in politics. It’s the only occasion an opposition is offered a opportunity for power and he has refused to grasp it. Can you imagine thatcher, Cameron of Blair not grabbing it.

let’s face reality here. There no referendum - even the likely extension date will not allow it and even if there was a decision. An be reversed by a manifesto pledge

the country is in paralysis and is being locked down due to one mans fear he may lose his chance at the big job forever

 

[Deleted member 5849]

the country is in paralysis and is being locked down due to one mans fear he may lose his chance at the big job forever

Yep, Johnson should just get on with owning his decisions, rather than trying to bat them off with childlike plays.

 

[skybluetony176]

Hardly

it’s a unique moment in politics. It’s the only occasion an opposition is offered a opportunity for power and he has refused to grasp it. Can you imagine thatcher, Cameron of Blair not grabbing it.

let’s face reality here. There no referendum - even the likely extension date will not allow it and even if there was a decision. An be reversed by a manifesto pledge

the country is in paralysis and is being locked down due to one mans fear he may lose his chance at the big job forever

Hardly.

It’s only the second time that a government has attempted to call an election under the fixed term parliament act which means 50% of the time the opposition accepted the request and 50% of the time the opposition has rejected the request. As is within their rights to do so.

 

[clint van damme]

Hardly

it’s a unique moment in politics. It’s the only occasion an opposition is offered a opportunity for power and he has refused to grasp it. Can you imagine thatcher, Cameron of Blair not grabbing it.

let’s face reality here. There no referendum - even the likely extension date will not allow it and even if there was a decision. An be reversed by a manifesto pledge

the country is in paralysis and is being locked down due to one mans fear he may lose his chance at the big job forever

Corbyn said he will support it if no deal is off the table. Even that might not be enough as there will be plenty of opposition to it anyway including many tory MPs by the sound of it.
The country is paralysed due to the ill conceived referendum of 2016.

 

[Grendel]

Yep, Johnson should just get on with owning his decisions, rather than trying to bat them off with childlike plays.

Indeed and his decision is to put it to the people in a general election

 

[Grendel]

Corbyn said he will support it if no deal is off the table. Even that might not be enough as there will be plenty of opposition to it anyway including many tory MPs by the sound of it.
The country is paralysed due to the ill conceived referendum of 2016.

How can it be taken off the table?

 

[djr8369]

the country is in paralysis and is being locked down due to one mans fear he may lose his chance at the big job forever

Surely you’re talking about Boris Johnson?

Look at it from the other side G. Firstly, rumours are Corbyn desperately wants the election (campaigning is probably what he sees as his strengths whereas he’s not had an easy time being leader of the opposition in generally), and it’s the rest of the leadership holding him back. And why wouldn’t they? They’re behind in the polls and if they can’t guarantee no deal won’t happen and it happens by accident it’s labour who would be blamed for causing it due to the disruption of an election. All the other parties want an election but they too are willing to wait even though they’re being punished politically for looking weak. Yet they do it anyway, why? Because they actually do want to stop no deal.

Meanwhile the person most desperate for an election seems to be Johnson, why is this? Because he couldn’t care less about Brexit he just care about himself. It’s all pretty transparent yet here you are towing the governments line.




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[Sick Boy]

It makes me laugh so many have fallen for 'Get Brexit Done' - when in reality it is just the very beginning of the process.

 

[Grendel]

Surely you’re talking about Boris Johnson?

Look at it from the other side G. Firstly, rumours are Corbyn desperately wants the election (campaigning is probably what he sees as his strengths whereas he’s not had an easy time being leader of the opposition in generally), and it’s the rest of the leadership holding him back. And why wouldn’t they? They’re behind in the polls and if they can’t guarantee no deal won’t happen and it happens by accident it’s labour who would be blamed for causing it due to the disruption of an election. All the other parties want an election but they too are willing to wait even though they’re being punished politically for looking weak. Yet they do it anyway, why? Because they actually do want to stop no deal.

Meanwhile the person most desperate for an election seems to be Johnson, why is this? Because he couldn’t care less about Brexit he just care about himself. It’s all pretty transparent yet here you are towing the governments line.




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No you are towing the opposition line.

There has never been a moment in politics where people in the opposition would not sieze the opportunity which we all know

Everyone on here is against Johnson, mocks him, laughs and him and thinks every day in office is ruining the country - yet and yet no one wants an election to bring him down

This is a blockage that will not be moved by another 12 weeks of arguing and inaction. There is no hope of a referendum (which would be overrun by an election anyway)

The only reason this has happened in the FTPA a ghastly bit of legislation or we’d have been done now.

 

[djr8369]

No you are towing the opposition line.

There has never been a moment in politics where people in the opposition would not sieze the opportunity which we all know

Everyone on here is against Johnson, mocks him, laughs and him and thinks every day in office is ruining the country - yet and yet no one wants an election to bring him down

This is a blockage that will not be moved by another 12 weeks of arguing and inaction. There is no hope of a referendum (which would be overrun by an election anyway)

The only reason this has happened in the FTPA a ghastly bit of legislation or we’d have been done now.

How am I towing the line. I’ve literally said labour being behind in the polls is going to be a consideration for them and Corbyn comes across as a weak leader of the opposition. You just can’t accept that Johnson is all in it for himself and there are other things the other parties have to consider.

The house approves of his deal in theory if he gives them time to scrutinise it yet he throws a tantrum and wants an election instead. He couldn’t give a fuck about Brexit it’s all showmanship to try and win votes crying about parliament blocking Brexit.


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[clint van damme]

How can it be taken off the table?

Labour are asking for an 'explicit commitment' backed by legislation, I don't know what form that legislation would be in, the Lib dems are backing this call.

 

[clint van damme]

No you are towing the opposition line.

There has never been a moment in politics where people in the opposition would not sieze the opportunity which we all know

Everyone on here is against Johnson, mocks him, laughs and him and thinks every day in office is ruining the country - yet and yet no one wants an election to bring him down

This is a blockage that will not be moved by another 12 weeks of arguing and inaction. There is no hope of a referendum (which would be overrun by an election anyway)

The only reason this has happened in the FTPA a ghastly bit of legislation or we’d have been done now.

there has never been a moment in politics where an election would basically be a one issue campaign on something as divisive as Brexit. Comparisons are meaningless.

 

[Astute]

Where I have twisted the truth? As discussed the other day, I’ve rephrased your words to try and understand what you’re getting at and you’ve lost your shit but that was done I’m good faith.

Just stop accusing people of lies and twisting the truth all the time. It’s tiresome, destroys honest debate and just puts further barriers up.


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That was a lot of words for you to use to not say anything when asked to explain your latest comment about me.

 

[Grendel]

How am I towing the line. I’ve literally said labour being behind in the polls is going to be a consideration for them and Corbyn comes across as a weak leader of the opposition. You just can’t accept that Johnson is all in it for himself and there are other things the other parties have to consider.

The house approves of his deal in theory if he gives them time to scrutinise it yet he throws a tantrum and wants an election instead. He couldn’t give a fuck about Brexit it’s all showmanship to try and win votes crying about parliament blocking Brexit.


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The house hasn’t approved its deal. It’s taken it to have another reading. The opposition face said it’s a disaster and reject it. Some MPs such as Nandy said they would probably not vote for it at a third reading

The idea of scrutiny is a laugh. Again a word banded about with non meaning or intent. The Lib Dem’s have said they’d accept no deal so won’t read it, same for the SNP and Corbyn disowned it before it was even published

 

[djr8369]

The house hasn’t approved its deal. It’s taken it to have another reading. The opposition face said it’s a disaster and reject it. Some MPs such as Nandy said they would probably not vote for it at a third reading

The idea of scrutiny is a laugh. Again a word banded about with non meaning or intent. The Lib Dem’s have said they’d accept no deal so won’t read it, same for the SNP and Corbyn disowned it before it was even published

I said approves in theory. The idea of scrutiny is not a laugh. The idea the deal should be bungled through in a couple of days with nobody understanding the details is a laugh. Even the Brexit secretary didn’t know what was in it. It is insane to rush this through when it’s so important and will affect so much.

Whether some MPs or parties will vote against it isn’t really relevant is it? All the government needs to pass it is to win over some of the MPs they expelled and a few labour rebels.


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[Sick Boy]

Where I have twisted the truth? As discussed the other day, I’ve rephrased your words to try and understand what you’re getting at and you’ve lost your shit but that was done I’m good faith.

Just stop accusing people of lies and twisting the truth all the time. It’s tiresome, destroys honest debate and just puts further barriers up.


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The "explain yourself for once" stuff cracks me up - you're approaching 'blocking territory' now.

 

[djr8369]

The "explain yourself for once" stuff cracks me up - you're approaching 'blocking territory' now.

Throw some mud and see what sticks?


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