The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (58 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Only one thing wrong with that post. It is all 3 sides.

Fair point

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Name a better one that isn’t revoke or Johnson’s managed no deal

Should've gone straight for a referendum on May's deal once parliament couldn't solve it. Even now, should cut out the negotiation and go for a referendum on the current deal. Renegotiation reads to certain meatheads as a devious attempt to delay before revoking, it's also overly complex. Playing for a quick (relatively!) resolution would play better with the general electorate, I feel.

 

[Grendel]

Legally binding 2nd ref, I've been arguing for it for the best part of a year and we could've had one by now in the total time Brexit has been extended for.

By legally binding do you mean by passing parliament? That’s illegal isn’t it?

 

[shmmeee]

Legally binding 2nd ref, I've been arguing for it for the best part of a year and we could've had one by now in the total time Brexit has been extended for.

Between what and what?

 

[shmmeee]

Should've gone straight for a referendum on May's deal once parliament couldn't solve it. Even now, should cut out the negotiation and go for a referendum on the current deal. Renegotiation reads to certain meatheads as a devious attempt to delay before revoking, it's also overly complex. Playing for a quick (relatively!) resolution would play better with the general electorate, I feel.

Yeah I’d accept that personally, but then you’d be saying they’ll implement a deal they’ve spent the last three years saying is shit and will damage the country.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You’ve posted a fact check to defend Corbyn which pretty much gives up on defending his independence regarding the IRA

in the end the British public are far more considered than you fine them credit for and will deliver a verdict on Mr Corbyn in December

then we will see who is correct on this

Do you ever stop deflecting? Answer directly-were you wrong with your 2017 prediction?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Should've gone straight for a referendum on May's deal once parliament couldn't solve it. Even now, should cut out the negotiation and go for a referendum on the current deal. Renegotiation reads to certain meatheads as a devious attempt to delay before revoking, it's also overly complex. Playing for a quick (relatively!) resolution would play better with the general electorate, I feel.

Best of 10 is it??? You'll keep wanting one till you win (which will never happen)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

By legally binding do you mean by passing parliament? That’s illegal isn’t it?

By legally binding I mean pushing through the legislation for a legally binding referendum.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Best of 10 is it??? You'll keep wanting one till you win (which will never happen)

You're a moron, get over it.

 

[shmmeee]

Best of 10 is it??? You'll keep wanting one till you win (which will never happen)

So we should ignore the 2016 referendum because we got an answer in the 70s?

Don’t be silly.

We should have a say on what Brexit looks like. Even if it’s just soft vs hard and no Remain. Cameron fucked us all, no sense is pretending that isn’t true.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Between what and what?

The most popular Leave option and Revoke. Though since 'Leave means Leave', personally I'd have No Deal against Revoke but to avoid any complaints of foul play I'd be fine with whatever the Leave side agreed on.

 

[Astute]

Come on. At worst you can say he’s a naive leftie who tries too hard to back the underdogs. He wasn’t out there with bombs FFS. Also, again, 30 odd years ago. The fact you have to go back that far suggests it’s not the strongest argument.

What are you afraid he’ll do?

1, Why is it always the terrorist that he has sympathy for?

2, Why did he always show sympathy for terrorists killed even when they were planting bombs but always refused to show sympathy for those who were totally innocent including women and children killed by bombs and guns?

 

[Grendel]

Do you ever stop deflecting? Answer directly-were you wrong with your 2017 prediction?

with respect you have been deflecting - we were discussing mr Corbyn and his links to terrorist organisations. Dom raised it and I supplied some links and you also provided one that agrees he supports an organisation that endorsed mass murderer in the uk

 

[shmmeee]

O

1, Why is it always the terrorist that he has sympathy for?

2, Why did he always show sympathy for terrorists killed even when they were planting bombs but always refused to show sympathy for those who were totally innocent including women and children killed by bombs and guns?

1) One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Powerful states don’t tend to need to resort to guerilla tactics.

2) This is baseless.

This is as silly as saying why does Johnson support killing Muslim babies.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You're a moron, get over it.

No need to talk about yourself like that

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yeah I’d accept that personally, but then you’d be saying they’ll implement a deal they’ve spent the last three years saying is shit and will damage the country.

Campaigning on that but also committing to implement it aren't necessarily contradictory however.

 

[Grendel]

By legally binding I mean pushing through the legislation for a legally binding referendum.

what does legally binding mean? For ever?

 

[shmmeee]

Campaigning on that but also committing to implement it aren't necessarily contradictory however.

And neither is renegotiating and then asking the people what’s best?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

what does legally binding mean? For ever?

It means with immediate effect we would leave or revoke.

 

[Astute]

Brexit and the Tory handling of it has done much more to destabilise the UK than Mr Corbyn in the last 3 years.

That is only because the British public will never put Corbyn in a position of authority.

 

[Astute]

There was no Labour deal on the table last time. The current position is to negotiate a deal then allow MPs to campaign against it. It's a shite policy

That is the Lib Dem way.

 

[Grendel]

It means with immediate effect we would leave or revoke.

but then a general election could follow and a party has a view that the referendum was flawed and would immediately withdraw again if elected?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

It means with immediate effect we would leave or revoke.

I don't think so, we already had a vote thank you

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

with respect you have been deflecting - we were discussing mr Corbyn and his links to terrorist organisations. Dom raised it and I supplied some links and you also provided one that agrees he supports an organisation that endorsed mass murderer in the uk

With respect this is bullshit. I asked him for direct comments from Corbyn and he provided none-nor have you. You try to use guilt by association but don't apply the same principle to other politicians. The link provides no such evidence.

Corbyn has been the subject of more bogus media stories than any other UK politician since he became Labour leader. Claims have had to be retracted because to all intents and purposes they were libellous. There are so much better arguments against him than these efforts to paint him as an IRA lieutenant

 

[shmmeee]

I don't think so, we already had a vote thank you

What was the outcome?

Which of the infinite Brexits has public support?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think so, we already had a vote thank you

If you think that the public still wants it you'll have no objection to another vote. If you want some finality to this bullshit you'll also have no objection.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

What was the outcome?

Which of the infinite Brexits has public support?

To leave the EU, something which idiots can't implement because of a remain parliament

 

[shmmeee]

That is only because the British public will never put Corbyn in a position of authority.

He’s already in that position. He’s LOTO.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

If you think that the public still wants it you'll have no objection to another vote. If you want some finality to this bullshit you'll also have no objection.

Not how democracy works idiot, imagine if the remoaners (like yourself) won and us leavers bitched and complained because we didn't get our own way

Childish and embarrassing tbh

 

[Grendel]

With respect this is bullshit. I asked him for direct comments from Corbyn and he provided none-nor have you. You try to use guilt by association but don't apply the same principle to other politicians. The link provides no such evidence.

Corbyn has been the subject of more bogus media stories than any other UK politician since he became Labour leader. Claims have had to be retracted because to all intents and purposes they were libellous. There are so much better arguments against him than these efforts to paint him as an IRA lieutenant

Oh it’s the media again

The Jewish community are thick it’s the media

The working class who have an opinion different to yours are thick it’s the media

the unionist population of Ireland are thick - it’s the media

Perhaps you should be the only person allowed a vote. Makes sense

 

[Astute]

Should've gone straight for a referendum on May's deal once parliament couldn't solve it. Even now, should cut out the negotiation and go for a referendum on the current deal. Renegotiation reads to certain meatheads as a devious attempt to delay before revoking, it's also overly complex. Playing for a quick (relatively!) resolution would play better with the general electorate, I feel.

I can't see any renegotiation happening. What has been offered is all that will be offered. Take it or leave it. Leave it means leave without an agreement/revoke article 50/another referendum. Take it means leave the EU then start talking about a deal.

 

[Astute]

O


1) One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Powerful states don’t tend to need to resort to guerilla tactics.

2) This is baseless.

This is as silly as saying why does Johnson support killing Muslim babies.

What is baseless? Corbyn refusing to say anything about the innocent women and children killed? If so how many links would you like?

 

[shmmeee]

I can't see any renegotiation happening. What has been offered is all that will be offered. Take it or leave it. Leave it means leave without an agreement/revoke article 50/another referendum. Take it means leave the EU then start talking about a deal.

Nah. If we asked for a closer relationship we’d get it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And neither is renegotiating and then asking the people what’s best?

I already mentioned my concerns with that approach (over complexity, not playing well to an electorate as it seems you're trying to do something behind their back), and that doesn't mean the current position is contradictory, either. it does mean it's hard to explain and sell. It's not the Grendels of this world you need to sell it to, it's the middle of the roaders and if they don't get it, they won't vote for it.

Keep it simple stupid is what you need.

I can't see any renegotiation happening. What has been offered is all that will be offered. Take it or leave it. Leave it means leave without an agreement/revoke article 50/another referendum. Take it means leave the EU then start talking about a deal.

tbf they also said May's deal was the definitive final answer. If some of the red lines were relaxed (as with dumping on NI and the DUP, this time around) the EU might be amenable, especially with a different make-up of parliament.

But as I said, I don't think it plays well at all for getting a message across, so should be dumped. It also depends on taking the leap of faith that a different government could come up with this holy grail of a Brexit to end all Brexits too!

 

[Astute]

Nah. If we asked for a closer relationship we’d get it.

That would be for a later date when negotiations finally start. That would be after leaving. What I said is I can't see any more changing of the agreement to us leaving. Not unless it was to stop us from leaving without an agreement. And I can't see that happening. I don't even think we will leave.