The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

[Astute]

From the ONS website and related links, the definition of employment itself is pathetic and contradictory:

The links I showed are for those who ARE in employment. It isn't for those who have worked at some stage.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

How has his quote changed for yours but not mine when I quoted him before you.....But it still says the same as when I quoted him????

One hour? What are you saying?

What it's saying that somebody on a zero hours contract who is asked to work for over an hour a week is counted as employed (and contributing to this brilliant booming Tory economy)

 

[fernandopartridge]

The links I showed are for those who ARE in employment. It isn't for those who have worked at some stage.

I'm showing what the definition of employment for the purpose of those stats are (using the links to such information that are on the page you posted). Jesus Christ you really are Obtuse.

 

[Astute]

What it's saying that somebody on a zero hours contract who is asked to work for over an hour a week is counted as employed (and contributing to this brilliant booming Tory economy)

So when did zero hour contracts start? Are they a Tory thing? Were they not counted in the past?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Completely agree, the employment figures will include zero hour contracts which should be scrapped. How can people live without guaranteed income - it’s awful.

As for the comment on job losses, this will surely happen once we leave the EU. Isn’t this now an accepted point from leave supporting parties? Our GDP will not track at the same levels as staying in the EU, and Bojo’s deal is worse than Mays.

"How can people live without guaranteed income - it’s awful"...no - it's benefits

There has (always?) been a significant effort to massage & misrepresent figures. I agree the ZHCs is one of them. They should ban them imo, then people wouldn't take them...& instead those businesses would have to find a better way - like enrichment of roles rather than oh-so specific task oriented (or dumbed-down as I prefer to call it) roles.

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[Astute]

I'm showing what the definition of employment for the purpose of those stats are (using the links to such information that are on the page you posted). Jesus Christ you really are Obtuse.

Is that right? Sorry for showing you to be wrong. But will do it again.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So when did zero hour contracts start? Are they a Tory thing? Were they not counted in the past?

No, they're not a specific Tory thing by any means but they are a thing and have grown from 168k people in 2010 to 896k in 2019, that's 530%. If the Tories are going to keep claiming record increases in employment then they own such an increase in the rise of ZHC.

 

[fernandopartridge]

"How can people live without guaranteed income - it’s awful"...no - it's benefits

There has (always?) been a significant effort to massage & misrepresent figures. I agree the ZHCs is one of them. They should ban them imo, then people wouldn't take them...& instead those businesses would have to find a better way - like enrichment of roles rather than oh-so specific task oriented (or dumbed-down as I prefer to call it) roles.

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I agree, like shmmeee says the methodology is internationally agreed but it is a bit of a sham isn't it?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Look at my post above, the employment statistics are utter nonsense and completely misleading. They do tally though with the UK's poor productivity statistics.

That is the point, the data has become so complex to suit businesses & politicians over the years that without few along through piles government-speak bollocks, most people just see/hear the headline.

A straightforward % employed of over 16s total population should always be quoted alongside all the other data presented for some consistency.

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[SkyblueBazza]

The stats methods are fine. They’re set internationally to be comparable with other countries.

They are set to the lowest standard to measure it too as that suits government of all shapes & sizes

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[shmmeee]

"How can people live without guaranteed income - it’s awful"...no - it's benefits

There has (always?) been a significant effort to massage & misrepresent figures. I agree the ZHCs is one of them. They should ban them imo, then people wouldn't take them...& instead those businesses would have to find a better way - like enrichment of roles rather than oh-so specific task oriented (or dumbed-down as I prefer to call it) roles.

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Point of order: benefits are by no means guaranteed income.

 

[shmmeee]

They are set to the lowest standard to measure it too as that suits government of all shapes & sizes

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Oh yeah they’re shit. But they’re equally shot everywhere and across governments so not a stick to beat the current govt with IMO.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Is this trying to put bad spin on the record employment when we were told we would see masses of newly unemployed if we voted leave?

So do we have record employment AND record unemployment? Getting silly now.

No it’s just an incomplete data set and the thing that is always excluded from discussion of employment figures is the type of employment. More than ever it is part time, zero hours or temporary. Getting a job is not necessarily enough to protect someone from poverty, as we’ve discussed before.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Haha good riddance, shame he didn't 3 years ago

 

[Astute]

No, they're not a specific Tory thing by any means but they are a thing and have grown from 168k people in 2010 to 896k in 2019, that's 530%. If the Tories are going to keep claiming record increases in employment then they own such an increase in the rise of ZHC.

The number is coming down. It is presently 850k approx. But that is 850k too many.

There is also a lot of hypocrisy on the subject

Labour council employs one in ten staff on zero hours contracts despite Jeremy Corbyn's vow to ban them

 

[fernandopartridge]

The number is coming down. It is presently 850k approx. But that is 850k too many.

There is also a lot of hypocrisy on the subject

Labour council employs one in ten staff on zero hours contracts despite Jeremy Corbyn's vow to ban them

Agreed. TBH there are jobs where a ZHC is necessary and well practiced, e.g. hospital bank staff.

 

[skybluetony176]

Haha good riddance, shame he didn't 3 years ago

You do know that he’s voted for brexit more times than Boris?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You do know that he’s voted for brexit more times than Boris?

What i do know is that he's a knob

 

[Astute]

No it’s just an incomplete data set and the thing that is always excluded from discussion of employment figures is the type of employment. More than ever it is part time, zero hours or temporary. Getting a job is not necessarily enough to protect someone from poverty, as we’ve discussed before.

Zero hours took over from agency work. I have not always been in good employment. I used to have to work for agencies. No such thing as paid holiday or sick pay. I had to work up to and around 100 hours a week to survive. As well as that I put myself through getting qualifications which got me my present job.

Thankfully zero hour contracts look to be in their way out. But I do know how shit the situation is. I plan to retire in 3 years, 5 months 2 weeks. Someone young will take my place. Everyone who can afford to retire should do. But fir some it is their life and they stay as long as they can even though they don't need the money.

 

[shmmeee]

Agreed. TBH there are jobs where a ZHC is necessary and well practiced, e.g. hospital bank staff.

Agreed. There are plenty of shit jobs with full contracts too. I’ve always found them a bit of a distraction

 

[shmmeee]

Zero hours took over from agency work. I have not always been in good employment. I used to have to work for agencies. No such thing as paid holiday or sick pay. I had to work up to and around 100 hours a week to survive. As well as that I put myself through getting qualifications which got me my present job.

Thankfully zero hour contracts look to be in their way out. But I do know how shit the situation is. I plan to retire in 3 years, 5 months 2 weeks. Someone young will take my place. Everyone who can afford to retire should do. But fir some it is their life and they stay as long as they can even though they don't need the money.

Agency work is still very much a thing. Most of my mates suffer from it.

 

[Astute]

Agreed. TBH there are jobs where a ZHC is necessary and well practiced, e.g. hospital bank staff.

It is needed in hospitality. It suits some people like students. But they don't suit the family person unless it is a working mother allowed to choose her hours around the children for example .

 

[fernandopartridge]

I worked for agencies years ago, that was basically zero hours. I remember working up at RS Components in Nuneaton, short shifts but no guaranteed pattern. That was basically a ZHC.

The casualisation of employment is a worldwide problem, but it's made a lot easier in the UK with our mostly non-unionised workforce and to some extent our non-restriction on freedom of movement.

 

[Astute]

Agency work is still very much a thing. Most of my mates suffer from it.

Not as much as when I was a teen or in my 20's. The only work you could get was agency work. I always went for whoever paid the most however shit the job was. But like I said not even any holiday pay. To have a holiday you had to nit just pay for the holiday but also save up enough to cover the missing wage.

 

[skybluetony176]

What i do know is that he's a knob

Maybe so but he still voted for Brexit when Boris didn’t. So at least he’s a Brexit voting knob as opposed to a voting against Brexit knob. Like Boris.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What i do know is that he's a knob

Why?

 

[shmmeee]

Why?

Not Brexity enough.

See, politics used to be confusing for a bear of little brain such as Dom, but now he only needs to remember: Brexit: good, No Brexit: bad.

He doesn’t even need to remember which people are which, cos he has someone to tell him.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Maybe so but he still voted for Brexit when Boris didn’t. So at least he’s a Brexit voting knob as opposed to a voting against Brexit knob. Like Boris.

The biggest knob of all is Jo Swinson surely ? Don't really refer to women as knobs but she's the exception.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Not Brexity enough.

See, politics used to be confusing for a bear of little brain such as Dom, but now he only needs to remember: Brexit: good, No Brexit: bad.

He doesn’t even need to remember which people are which, cos he has someone to tell him.

Here we go again . Brexit voters = thickies.
It's really tedious. He doesn't agree with you so he's got a small brain.
You voted to keep things the same because it's just easier. Well done. Very intelligent.

 

[Grendel]

The biggest knob of all is Jo Swinson surely ? Don't really refer to women as knobs but she's the exception.

Something someone on twitter did make me laugh - it said she’s like the captain of the school hockey club - loud, obnoxious and ugly but has big tits so gets the shag anyway

 

[shmmeee]

Not as much as when I was a teen or in my 20's. The only work you could get was agency work. I always went for whoever paid the most however shit the job was. But like I said not even any holiday pay. To have a holiday you had to nit just pay for the holiday but also save up enough to cover the missing wage.

Yeah like I say, I’ve got several good mates in their late 30s who have only ever done agency work because that’s all they can get. Working for the likes of Barclays and Lear.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah like I say, I’ve got several good mates in their late 30s who have only ever done agency work because that’s all they can get. Working for the likes of Barclays and Lear.

many people are employed by JLR through an agency so to avoid being on the headcount and I’ve personally tried to get a couple to join full time and they refused as they were paid better that route

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The biggest knob of all is Jo Swinson surely ? Don't really refer to women as knobs but she's the exception.

I think she's going to be the Hillary Clinton of our election. Far too high opinion of herself and quite smug about it will cost her party votes IMO.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Something someone on twitter did make me laugh - it said she’s like the captain of the school hockey club - loud, obnoxious and ugly but has big tits so gets the shag anyway

'Go on national TV and say that'

 

[Grendel]

'Go on national TV and say that'

It was a woman who said it so I guess if she did she could be accused of what exactly?