The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (19 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was a woman who said it so I guess if she did she could be accused of what exactly?

Why does the gender of who said it make a difference to the level of maturity on show?

 

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[Grendel]

Why does the gender of who said it make a difference to the level of maturity on show?

The point is I didn’t say it and unlike your so called gags at least it’s amusing

 

[chiefdave]

Zero hours took over from agency work. I have not always been in good employment. I used to have to work for agencies. No such thing as paid holiday or sick pay. I had to work up to and around 100 hours a week to survive. As well as that I put myself through getting qualifications which got me my present job.

Thankfully zero hour contracts look to be in their way out. But I do know how shit the situation is. I plan to retire in 3 years, 5 months 2 weeks. Someone young will take my place. Everyone who can afford to retire should do. But fir some it is their life and they stay as long as they can even though they don't need the money.

There's nothing wrong with zero hours contracts as a concept but as with everything its been massively abused so now its toxic. I've worked jobs with no hours guaranteed but the difference back then was 99% of the time there was as many hours as you wanted there for the taking. You weren't turning up for work only to be sent home.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The point is I didn’t say it and unlike your so called gags at least it’s amusing

You cut me so deep G

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Here we go again . Brexit voters = thickies.
It's really tedious. He doesn't agree with you so he's got a small brain.
You voted to keep things the same because it's just easier. Well done. Very intelligent.

It's not the lack of agreement that suggests he has a small brain...

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The number is coming down. It is presently 850k approx. But that is 850k too many.

There is also a lot of hypocrisy on the subject

Labour council employs one in ten staff on zero hours contracts despite Jeremy Corbyn's vow to ban them

Shocking

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[SkyblueBazza]

Agreed. TBH there are jobs where a ZHC is necessary and well practiced, e.g. hospital bank staff.

Also shocking.

What used to happen before ZHC?

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[fernandopartridge]

Also shocking.

What used to happen before ZHC?

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Bank staff aren't expected to be otherwise available for work within a defined period of time. They choose when to work rather than be sat waiting for an offer. Subtly different.

 

[shmmeee]

Here we go again . Brexit voters = thickies.
It's really tedious. He doesn't agree with you so he's got a small brain.
You voted to keep things the same because it's just easier. Well done. Very intelligent.

Turn the inferiority complex down a touch would you? It’s nothing to do with how he voted. He’s got a small brain because he posts unintelligent bollocks and sees politics as black and white.

 

[shmmeee]

The number is coming down. It is presently 850k approx. But that is 850k too many.

There is also a lot of hypocrisy on the subject

Labour council employs one in ten staff on zero hours contracts despite Jeremy Corbyn's vow to ban them

Is Jeremy Corbyn in power? Does he run that council? If not where is the hypocrisy?

What is it about people that expect those who want to push for change to already be following extra laws themselves? Why should they have extra restrictions beyond the law? “Hypocrisy” is always a last ditch attempt to shut down an argument when you’ve lost. See also climate deniers frothing about someone driving a car or anti-capitalists buying shit.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Bank staff aren't expected to be otherwise available for work within a defined period of time. They choose when to work rather than be sat waiting for an offer. Subtly different.

Yes that is true. It is a lifestyle choice & sometimes used almost as additional hours to their main job. Which to me means it is not a true ZHC as many despise

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[SkyblueBazza]

Is Jeremy Corbyn in power? Does he run that council? If not where is the hypocrisy?

What is it about people that expect those who want to push for change to already be following extra laws themselves? Why should they have extra restrictions beyond the law? “Hypocrisy” is always a last ditch attempt to shut down an argument when you’ve lost. See also climate deniers frothing about someone driving a car or anti-capitalists buying shit.

View attachment 13387

We are all hypocrites if we look deeply enough at the implications of what we do & say.

Buy anything cheap & you probably made life difficult for someone somewhere in the world.

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[shmmeee]

We are all hypocrites if we look deeply enough at the implications of what we do & say.

Buy anything cheap & you probably made life difficult for someone somewhere in the world.

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Have you watched The Good Life on Netflix? Aside from being funny the central premise is that everyone goes to Hell because modern life makes it impossible to make moral choices. I think there’s a lot of truth to that.

Moreover I just wish people would argue with the argument and not try and discredit the person making it. Either ZHCs are wrong and should be outlawed or they’re not. Playing gotcha is just avoiding the question. It’s what annoys me about the Sisu arguments on the other side as well. All day spent finding something someone once said or implying people aren’t arguing in good faith rather than discussing the actual topic.

 

[Astute]

Is Jeremy Corbyn in power? Does he run that council? If not where is the hypocrisy?

What is it about people that expect those who want to push for change to already be following extra laws themselves? Why should they have extra restrictions beyond the law? “Hypocrisy” is always a last ditch attempt to shut down an argument when you’ve lost. See also climate deniers frothing about someone driving a car or anti-capitalists buying shit.

View attachment 13387

Of course you won't see the hypocrisy. It is the Labour party.

Hypocrisy means a debate is lost? Will remind you the next time you use the word.

So to explain it to you as you seem to be having a problem. Corbyn says end zero hour contracts. It is something he says he will push. The Tories seem to get the blame for them. But a Labour run council have 10% of their workforce on zero hour contracts. Do they ignore Corbyn?

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Something someone on twitter did make me laugh - it said she’s like the captain of the school hockey club - loud, obnoxious and ugly but has big tits so gets the shag anyway

:emoji_laughing:

 

[shmmeee]

Of course you won't see the hypocrisy. It is the Labour party.

Hypocrisy means a debate is lost? Will remind you the next time you use the word.

So to explain it to you as you seem to be having a problem. Corbyn says end zero hour contracts. It is something he says he will push. The Tories seem to get the blame for them. But a Labour run council have 10% of their workforce on zero hour contracts. Do they ignore Corbyn?

Yes?

Corbyn isn’t god king of Labour. Councils have budget pressures and insisting Labour councils don’t do what they’ve been told and outsource to save costs is silly. The rule needs changing because if it’s not these kind of pressures result in low paid workers paying the price.

Are you implying Corbyn doesn’t really want to end ZHCs? If not, what is your point exactly?

 

[Astute]

Yes?

Corbyn isn’t god king of Labour. Councils have budget pressures and insisting Labour councils don’t do what they’ve been told and outsource to save costs is silly. The rule needs changing because if it’s not these kind of pressures result in low paid workers paying the price.

Are you implying Corbyn doesn’t really want to end ZHCs? If not, what is your point exactly?

Labour has been saying stop zero hour contracts. Labour councils still gives out zero hour contracts.

Budgeting pressures? So any company with budgeting pressures don't have to end zero hour contracts? Or is it just Labour councils?

 

[shmmeee]

Labour has been saying stop zero hour contracts. Labour councils still gives out zero hour contracts.

Budgeting pressures? So any company with budgeting pressures don't have to end zero hour contracts? Or is it just Labour councils?

Ridiculous straw men. Read my answer. Systems create pressures that mean these things are the only option. Councils don’t get to play morality police under these budget pressures. And yes business too will push their staff first because it’s easiest. That’s why we need the law to stop them and put hard limits on what they can do.

I’ll ask again: do you think Corbyn is secretly for ZHCs? If not, what is your point in bringing up this Labour Council?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course you won't see the hypocrisy. It is the Labour party.

Hypocrisy means a debate is lost? Will remind you the next time you use the word.

So to explain it to you as you seem to be having a problem. Corbyn says end zero hour contracts. It is something he says he will push. The Tories seem to get the blame for them. But a Labour run council have 10% of their workforce on zero hour contracts. Do they ignore Corbyn?

Have they or have they not surged under the Tories?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Turn the inferiority complex down a touch would you? It’s nothing to do with how he voted. He’s got a small brain because he posts unintelligent bollocks and sees politics as black and white.

Whereas you postulate as an arrogant intellect who sees politics as much, much more complicated.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Whereas you postulate as an arrogant intellect who sees politics as much, much more complicated.

OK how about an example

He called Corbyn a mad commie

He was asked to provide policy evidence of communism in the party-after some swerving, he admitted there wasn't any

He moved the goalposts to then say that some communists want him in power, so that makes him a communist by association

Taking aside the relentless enthusiasm for voting against his own self interest, Dom by name, Dumb by nature.

 

[Astute]

Ridiculous straw men. Read my answer. Systems create pressures that mean these things are the only option. Councils don’t get to play morality police under these budget pressures. And yes business too will push their staff first because it’s easiest. That’s why we need the law to stop them and put hard limits on what they can do.

I’ll ask again: do you think Corbyn is secretly for ZHCs? If not, what is your point in bringing up this Labour Council?

Read my replies then.

Do you think the council is the only one with these pressures? But it seems it is OK to have a pop at anyone that uses zero hour contracts.....as long as it isn't a Labour run council.

Yes it shouldn't be done by companies making a fortune. But most companies don't.

 

[Astute]

Have they or have they not surged under the Tories?

It has replaced agency work. Companies that used to use agencies now employ their own 'temporary' staff. But looking at just the numbers yes it has.

So where do we start to reduce it if those whi say it shouldn't be used take advantage themselves?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It has replaced agency work. Companies that used to use agencies now employ their own 'temporary' staff. But looking at just the numbers yes it has.

So where do we start to reduce it if those whi say it shouldn't be used take advantage themselves?

Except it hasn't replaced agency work as already demonstrated. Employment now is less secure than it was before-good for employers, shit for employees particularly at the bottom end.

 

[Astute]

Except it hasn't replaced agency work as already demonstrated. Employment now is less secure than it was before-good for employers, shit for employees particularly at the bottom end.

You make it sound as though it used to be different. It wasn't. It is just under a different name now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You make it sound as though it used to be different. It wasn't. It is just under a different name now.

So the nature of employment hasn't changed whatsoever in the last few decades?

 

[Astute]

So the nature of employment hasn't changed whatsoever in the last few decades?

Not whatsoever. But you make out it used to be very different and much easier. Just like you used to make out that the loss of final salary pensions was nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

 

[shmmeee]

Whereas you postulate as an arrogant intellect who sees politics as much, much more complicated.

Yeah, I’m not sure calling me smart is the insult you think it is.

Please feel free to back up your argument with erudite arguments from Dom though as you’re so desperate to defend him when he himself sees it all as banter.

Sorry you feel you are thick, but I didn’t do that. Maybe see someone?

 

[shmmeee]

You make it sound as though it used to be different. It wasn't. It is just under a different name now.

Are you simultaneously claiming that in the 70s unions were so powerful they crashed the economy and Corbyn will take us back there, yet also claiming employment hasn’t changed. You sure about that argument?

This is the best graph I’ve seen on the underlying change. Wages stopped tracking with productivity in the 80s/90s, mostly IMO because of lack of unionisation and collective bargaining. People feel that unfairness.

Do workers reap the benefits of productivity growth?

And this one showing wealth inequality, people want fairness. Forget all the minute details, people know they aren’t getting it and constant prevarication isn’t going to change that. We’ve recently halted a decades if not centuries long trend of reducing wealth inequality.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not whatsoever. But you make out it used to be very different and much easier. Just like you used to make out that the loss of final salary pensions was nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

I never did, that was you and you ran with it.

The population is much larger than it used to be. The value of a degree is considerably less. So one must compete with many more people for average or below average pay. You also posted a detailed analysis of the ease of buying a house since the '60s which left the millennial participants agreeing that they could've bought more for less in years gone by. You would also accept that house prices have increased at a much faster rate than wages over this time and since the global financial crisis mortgages are harder to acquire. Saving up for the deposit even more so because again, living costs have increased faster than wages.

Just suppose for a moment that I may actually have a point. I am not saying it was piss easy to begin with-but it was easier than it is right now. There is no 'job for life' as there once used to be.

 

[martcov]

The biggest knob of all is Jo Swinson surely ? Don't really refer to women as knobs but she's the exception.

Of course you wouldn’t, decent chap like you would never do that.

 

[Astute]

Are you simultaneously claiming that in the 70s unions were so powerful they crashed the economy and Corbyn will take us back there, yet also claiming employment hasn’t changed. You sure about that argument?

This is the best graph I’ve seen on the underlying change. Wages stopped tracking with productivity in the 80s/90s, mostly IMO because of lack of unionisation and collective bargaining. People feel that unfairness.

Do workers reap the benefits of productivity growth?

And this one showing wealth inequality, people want fairness. Forget all the minute details, people know they aren’t getting it and constant prevarication isn’t going to change that. We’ve recently halted a decades if not centuries long trend of reducing wealth inequality.


View attachment 13389

Here we go again.

70's? Where did I say that?

 

[shmmeee]

Here we go again.

70's? Where did I say that?

Was it not you posting about remembering the 70s? Apologies if not.

 

[Astute]

I never did, that was you and you ran with it.

The population is much larger than it used to be. The value of a degree is considerably less. So one must compete with many more people for average or below average pay. You also posted a detailed analysis of the ease of buying a house since the '60s which left the millennial participants agreeing that they could've bought more for less in years gone by. You would also accept that house prices have increased at a much faster rate than wages over this time and since the global financial crisis mortgages are harder to acquire. Saving up for the deposit even more so because again, living costs have increased faster than wages.

Just suppose for a moment that I may actually have a point. I am not saying it was piss easy to begin with-but it was easier than it is right now. There is no 'job for life' as there once used to be.

Oh yes you did. And you made out we had it so easy in every way. Had to show you how hard it was to buy a house. You blamed my generation for everything.

 

[martcov]

Here we go again . Brexit voters = thickies.
It's really tedious. He doesn't agree with you so he's got a small brain.
You voted to keep things the same because it's just easier. Well done. Very intelligent.

How do you know if and why he voted remain? Saying that he did only because it’s easier shows how little thought you put into the decision. Most remainers don’t claim to have voted for remain because it is easier. It makes more sense to vote remain as we keep all benefits. Leave is up shit creek without a paddle. The Leader is fighting the Leave campaign. Leavers claim that 17.4 m voted knowing what they voted for. Obviously a lie as there are still several versions of leave. They voted for blue sky ( not sky blue ) and sunny uplands. More fool them.