General Election 2019 thread (78 Viewers)

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Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
I do think the departure of Geoffrey Robinson from Cov NW might get a bounce back of Labour voters. It's definetly one to watch.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
You think Corbyn knows his policies will impact on the poor. That is just bonkers. His investment plan is bold and ambitious and this country can easily afford this if the City boys, tax dodging big business and off shore tax havens are reigned in. In my eyes Corbyn has the balance about right between social, sustainability (green) and economic matter, more than the other parties!
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I was saying that I think he knows his wider policies (free broadband for all, nationalisations and resolving the waspi/pension issue) will directly/indirectly cost people on under £80k. It was also flagged yesterday that his costed policies also will to some relatively small extent (removal of marriage allowance and increased dividend tax)
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
With the Andrew Neil interview for Alexander, I think, even though he's probably going to get ripped apart by him, it would be better for him to just do it and get it out of the way ASAP. With over two weeks left it gives plenty of time for the news to move on from any potential horror show he may have and other debates later on will be fresher in the memory.

May refusing last time was remembered all the way to polling day and seized upon as lacking leadership, showing a lack of respect to the electorate and just generally being frightened.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
westcountry_skyblue said:
If the Conservatives are as bad as the lefties on here keep saying,How come Labour are not miles ahead in the polls.
Can I ask all you left wingers the reason why you think they’re not ahead?
Serious answers only please?
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A lot of people do not care for Corbyn and I think he is a vote loser for the party unfortunately.

Would be interesting to see if they would be faring any better with the likes of Kier Starmer at the helm.
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
To a certain extent I agree but I don't think it's easily affordable. It is quite a bit of money were talking about However I think he's going a bit too far too soon on the nationalism thing. Although I admire the ambition of it IMO he should've outlined it as a desire to do all of them in the future but probably just picked one as a proof of concept and to spread out the capital cost. The manifesto does also read at times like a TU recruitment drive.

Greens for me was the most ambitious and in many cases quite joined up in the thinking, stating how the cost of some things would be paid for because they would then require less funding elsewhere on things like healthcare and social costs. I was also impressed in that they're approaching the climate thing not as a massive catastrophe but also an opportunity to rebuild our economy and generate new jobs and industry to replace those that are likely to become redundant in the near future. Timescale is massively over-optimistic and therefore the costs involved are big but I guess it has to be with climate change.

LD was sort-of inbetween - impressed with the forward thinking towards energy, housing etc but not as ambitious (or more realistic depending on your take) as the Greens. Also didn't have a lot of the far-left stuff and over-the-top equality aspects.

Con as I said above - nothing really wrong apart from Brexit so lets just keep going as we are, with a bit of extra spending promises in there. All manifestos tend to use vague, largely non-committal language like 'consult', 'aim' 'improve/increase' but the Tory one was rife with it - very few nailed-on commitments - suits Boris I suppose. Compared to the others it was a very backward looking document IMO. Was also hugely about Alexander - not only was he on the front cover and had quite a few photos in it the back cover with some workers holding up a "We heart Boris" sign in particular made me want to wretch.
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I agree that the Tory manifesto isn’t particularly exciting. I think after the last election debacle they have tried to just play it safe (overly so in my view as I was hoping for a couple of big statement policies around housing/infrastructure at the very least)
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
With the Andrew Neil interview for Alexander, I think, even though he's probably going to get ripped apart by him, it would be better for him to just do it and get it out of the way ASAP. With over two weeks left it gives plenty of time for the news to move on from any potential horror show he may have and other debates later on will be fresher in the memory.

May refusing last time was remembered all the way to polling day and seized upon as lacking leadership, showing a lack of respect to the electorate and just generally being frightened.
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Think that was the leader debate SBD. Agree though, the Corbyn/Neil interview was only watched by 3m so don’t think it will make a huge difference over the next week or two. It was worth the gamble for him (to try to catch up a bit in polls and get some positive soundbitea out), not sure it is for Johnson...I reckon he’s still got a massive fuck up in him pre election !
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Think that was the leader debate SBD. Agree though, the Corbyn/Neil interview was only watched by 3m so don’t think it will make a huge difference over the next week or two. It was worth the gamble for him (to try to catch up a bit in polls and get some positive soundbitea out), not sure it is for Johnson...I reckon he’s still got a massive fuck up in him pre election !
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Oh undoubtedly he's got a fuck up in him. But like I say if he gets it the interview out of the way it's got more time to be overtaken by new stuff and lessen the impact.

Dunno why but I've got a feeling his treatment of Arcuri might bite him on the arse and she might throw him under one of his wine crate buses a few days before the election out of spite and revenge.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Part of me hopes that these parachuted candidates lose to prove a point to the national executive about ignoring the value of well regarded local candidates (not saying the alternatives were).
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Yeah it would send a message not to take things for granted. But I'd also hope some would happen the other way so the Tories get the same message.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
A lot of people do not care for Corbyn and I think he is a vote loser for the party unfortunately.

Would be interesting to see if they would be faring any better with the likes of Kier Starmer at the helm.
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I think it would all depend on the manifesto. If Starmer brought the same ideas to the table then could work. But if it ended up being that 2010-15 Labour shite we’d be finished.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
jordan210 said:
i think it said hung parliament. I think sample size is also bigger this year too. But don’t quote me on that.
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You Govs final one was hung parliament - maybe they didn’t do one this far out as some of the data used for this one is up to 2 weeks old already.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
westcountry_skyblue said:
If the Conservatives are as bad as the lefties on here keep saying,How come Labour are not miles ahead in the polls.
Can I ask all you left wingers the reason why you think they’re not ahead?
Serious answers only please?
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In no particular order:

There’s one Brexit Party and about four Remain. Leavey Labour voters care more about getting Brexit done than Remainey Tories do about stopping it.

Corbyns a bit crap outside of subjects he enjoys. He particularly crap at parliamentary games and internal politics.

Sustained campaign from within and without Labour against him with some ridiculous smears (that really aren’t needed because well Corbyns a bit crap)

The British public has an absolutely terrible understanding of basic macroeconomics.

The BBC have decided balance is for pussies.

We don’t actually know how badly they’ll do yet. Unweighted polling is a lot closer and it’s a weird election with a lot of switching and don’t knows breaking late.

Mostly Corbyn + Brexit
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I was saying that I think he knows his wider policies (free broadband for all, nationalisations and resolving the waspi/pension issue) will directly/indirectly cost people on under £80k. It was also flagged yesterday that his costed policies also will to some relatively small extent (removal of marriage allowance and increased dividend tax)
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The dividend tax increase just exposes the farce of people on minimum wage jobs being self employed, doesn't it. The focus should be on that as much as the tax 'increase' which just brings them in to line with somebody on PAYE which is fair, not sure how it can really be argued otherwise. There is a bigger point about the fairness of some people being forced into 'self-employment' by companies,

Obviously, the media didn't bother to report that the Tories have actually cut the dividend allowance from £5k per year to £2k a year over the last few years, at the same time that 'self employment' has rocketed. The losses for low paid individuals from that are far higher than what Labour is proposing.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The dividend tax increase just exposes the farce of people on minimum wage jobs being self employed, doesn't it. The focus should be on that as much as the tax 'increase' which just brings them in to line with somebody on PAYE which is fair, not sure how it can really be argued otherwise. There is a bigger point about the fairness of some people being forced into 'self-employment' by companies,

Obviously, the media didn't bother to report that the Tories have actually cut the dividend allowance from £5k per year to £2k a year over the last few years, at the same time that 'self employment' has rocketed. The losses for low paid individuals from that are far higher than what Labour is proposing.
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I think they did report it. Believe it was Hammond and he got slated as a raid on self employed white van man.

Again, it’s not the actual tax change that’s an issue, it’s the argument that only big business and rich will pay. Just say ‘there will be some minor impacts on lower income earners but we’ve limited this and you will see an overall benefit due to improvements in public services’

Both sides just try to play the game and lie/be disingenuous and hope that no research or interrogation takes place (idiotic in the current world !!!). Heard someone on LBC yesterday talking about this NHS for sale stuff, when he was asked where it says that in the released document he replied ‘I don’t know but I trust Corbyn and he said it’ even though post announcement it had been picked apart. The same with Johnson’s 50,000 new nurses !

Just tell us the truth FFS !!!
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I think they did report it. Believe it was Hammond and he got slated as a raid on self employed white van man.

Again, it’s not the actual tax change that’s an issue, it’s the argument that only big business and rich will pay. Just say ‘there will be some minor impacts on lower income earners but we’ve limited this and you will see an overall benefit due to improvements in public services’

Both sides just try to play the game and lie/be disingenuous and hope that no research or interrogation takes place (idiotic in the current world !!!). Heard someone on LBC yesterday talking about this NHS for sale stuff, when he was asked where it says that in the released document he replied ‘I don’t know but I trust Corbyn and he said it’ even though post announcement it had been picked apart. The same with Johnson’s 50,000 new nurses !

Just tell us the truth FFS !!!
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Agreed Steve, you're right.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I think they did report it. Believe it was Hammond and he got slated as a raid on self employed white van man.

Again, it’s not the actual tax change that’s an issue, it’s the argument that only big business and rich will pay. Just say ‘there will be some minor impacts on lower income earners but we’ve limited this and you will see an overall benefit due to improvements in public services’

Both sides just try to play the game and lie/be disingenuous and hope that no research or interrogation takes place (idiotic in the current world !!!). Heard someone on LBC yesterday talking about this NHS for sale stuff, when he was asked where it says that in the released document he replied ‘I don’t know but I trust Corbyn and he said it’ even though post announcement it had been picked apart. The same with Johnson’s 50,000 new nurses !

Just tell us the truth FFS !!!
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The campaign has descended into a predictable farce.

The Tories are getting Brexit done and the Labour Party having seen the one area they may be more popular are spending all the election talking about the NHS
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It’s hard to believe that size as I assume most seats in Scotland will go

London will remain largely labour and in any see them making huge gains either in Wales. It would mean big losses I assume in the North
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Midlands too, Leamington apparently heading back to conservative....

Wonder if Cov could switch?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Midlands too, Leamington apparently heading back to conservative....

Wonder if Cov could switch?
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Coventry South will be a target. It’s been labour for 60 years but the candidate is a big issue

There are stories that North West is close but labour have an 8,000 majority. Again it’s a poor candidate but if the Tory won that would be sizemic
 
Mild-Mannered Janitor

Mild-Mannered Janitor

Kindest Bloke on CCFC / Maker of CCFC Dreams
I genuinely think it will be similar to now with coalition needed and cross party agreements to form a government, don’t know why but the polls don’t seem to have been accurate in recent years,
 
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I think they did report it. Believe it was Hammond and he got slated as a raid on self employed white van man.

Again, it’s not the actual tax change that’s an issue, it’s the argument that only big business and rich will pay. Just say ‘there will be some minor impacts on lower income earners but we’ve limited this and you will see an overall benefit due to improvements in public services’

Both sides just try to play the game and lie/be disingenuous and hope that no research or interrogation takes place (idiotic in the current world !!!). Heard someone on LBC yesterday talking about this NHS for sale stuff, when he was asked where it says that in the released document he replied ‘I don’t know but I trust Corbyn and he said it’ even though post announcement it had been picked apart. The same with Johnson’s 50,000 new nurses !

Just tell us the truth FFS !!!
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On the one hand, the false accusations are to be expected, but on the other you're right - it is worrying about the extent to which all parties are using this tactic. I put it down to the unshakeable belief on the part of politicians that they can perform dystopian tricks on the public, but also the gullible nature/lack of intelligence of most voters to see through. We have effectively been puppets of the state
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Mild-Mannered Janitor said:
I genuinely think it will be similar to now with coalition needed and cross party agreements to form a government, don’t know why but the polls don’t seem to have been accurate in recent years,
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Im amazed the Tories haven’t latched onto this. The only way Corbyn can be PM is in a minority government propped up mostly by the SNP - I’m surprised they haven’t done media stuff that a vote for Corbyn is effectively handing the keys to number 10 to Sturgeon
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Thats not true is it
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Yep. Johnson is useless and untrustworthy and likely compromised. Even if he’s not his entire habit is just saying whatever the person in front of him wants to hear, which when we are about to enter loads of important negotiations is very dangerous. We’ve already seen him capitulate to the EU for political expediency.

Corbyn is just useless. Shadow cabinets are pretty much even, back benches are far stronger for Labour.

Tories are a bunch of phone salesmen out of their depth.
 
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