Nick
Administrator
I really wouldn't be bothered. Bonus points if there is footage on liveleak.
Iran & USA (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlueDom26
- Start date
I really wouldn't be bothered. Bonus points if there is footage on liveleak.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Purely hypothetical of course, as he doesn't know where Dover is I think Raab would struggle to get to France.
tisza
Well-Known Member
I'd just assume the French were behind it
fatso
Well-Known Member
There’s some very strange people out there!
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I would hope so, but given some of the responses it seems some wouldn't give a shit.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Every nation wishes to protect its interests in every other part of the world. The only difference is that the US has the means to do so...why do you begrudge them that? This General would likely have had Israel wiped from the map if he had the means.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I think their foreign policy has been disastrous for years.
From the middle east now right back to Vietnam. They have overturned numerous democracies which is strange seen as democracy is something they constantly bang the drum for.
They have financed some really horrible bastards throughout the world, (and then fell out with most of them), causing more war and carnage.
If you think their foreign policy has only been about defending themselves you haven't been paying attention. Look at the history of Iran and Iraq as a prime examples.
tisza
Well-Known Member
But if this assassination increases Iranian influence in Iraq it could just have moved Iranian missiles that much closer to Israel.
Soleimeni was a terrorist in a uniform but was openly killing him on foreign soil a wise move? Time will tell.
certainly the growth of Iranian-backed militias operating in Iraq don't augur well for the future stability of the region but does the death of this 1 man alter the original Iranian foreign policy?
The unilateral actions of Trump should be a concern for all.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
America 'protecting its interests' lead to the Islamic Republic being created, fostered hostilities between Iran and Iraq leading to war, then removed the Iraqi government they had previously supported creating a power vacuum and a sectarian civil war allowing dickheads like Solemani a sphere of influence in the first place.
If the west just kept the fuck out of it Iran would be a secular democracy like it was before we got oil hungry.
I bet those in America supporting the escalation here are preparing themselves to support the conflict's refugees.
If the west just kept the fuck out of it Iran would be a secular democracy like it was before we got oil hungry.
I bet those in America supporting the escalation here are preparing themselves to support the conflict's refugees.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan. History repeating. The west will abandon Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran will try and fill the void much as Vietnam tried to following the collapse of French Indochina and the West abandoning it following the US’ hastily retreating from Ho Chi Minh city. Same shit, different location, same mistakes. I suspect a Iran will be more successful though. They already clearly have a foothold of support in Iraq.
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Just going back in history a bit, to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the archduke of Austria-Hungary in June 1914 in Sarajevo, Bosnia. His death at the hands of Gavrilo Princip – a Serbian nationalist with ties to the secretive military group known as the Black Hand – propelled the major European military powers towards war. Over the next two months, mayhem prevailed:
June 28, 1914 - Gavrilo Princip assassinates Franz Ferdinand.
July 28, 1914 - Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
August 2, 1914 - Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and Germany sign a secret treaty of alliance.
August 3, 1914 - Germany declares war on France.
August 4, 1914 - Germany invades Belgium, leading Britain to declare war on Germany.
August 10, 1914 - Austria-Hungary invades Russia.
Yep! One assassination started the "War to end all wars" - World War One.
Just sayin', like.
June 28, 1914 - Gavrilo Princip assassinates Franz Ferdinand.
July 28, 1914 - Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
August 2, 1914 - Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and Germany sign a secret treaty of alliance.
August 3, 1914 - Germany declares war on France.
August 4, 1914 - Germany invades Belgium, leading Britain to declare war on Germany.
August 10, 1914 - Austria-Hungary invades Russia.
Yep! One assassination started the "War to end all wars" - World War One.
Just sayin', like.
Its difficult to disagree with arguments against America’s foreign policy (other than obviously helping pull us/Europe out the shit !) but you can’t lump all those wars in together Tony.
The Middle East is a mess and an area, I for one, would prefer to steer well clear of. It is such a complex situation/region that goes well above my knowledge and understanding. What may have started off as US/West trying to protect oil supplies etc is now something very different....for example Iran saying they’d like to wipe Israel (the only non Muslim country in the region) off the face of the earth, actively supporting terrorism etc etc. You then get stuck into a position of almost wanting to avoid getting involved because of past mistakes (some of which may have caused/led to the current situation you find yourselves in).
As I say, it’s something I can’t even try to fully understand and whilst I do question the timing of the Trumps actions, some of the responses on here are over simplistic* to say the least.
*no offence intended
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Cov City Daytrader 87
Well-Known Member
You're right there's more to this. Unfortunately explaining would mean you get called a conspiracy theorist.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
None taken
Here’s the similarities.
The former French Indochina was a mess after WW2.
Both regions are former colonies of European countries.
Both regions are being pulled by Russia and America in opposite directions for their own gain and ideology.
Not a lot I know but it’s there.
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I think this is technically anti-Semitism under IHRA
my bad, meant to say non Muslim (will amend to save any offence !!!)
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What if natives don't want them there?
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Laos is the most bombed country in the world to have never been involved in a war.
The US’ actions are still causing carnage today with many people, including children, being killed or losing limbs either by standing on unexploded ordinance or when actively seeking the bombs in order to cash them in for scrap metal.
Visited one of the NGO’s assisting with this whilst I was there and do you know who is investing the most money and resource in helping them? Canada. I’m sure you can guess who is investing next to nothing......
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Although I fully appreciate this sentiment I have been lucky to travel to a fair few countries in the Middle East and it is such a diverse and interesting region with some amazing things to see and do and some wonderful people so I wouldn’t just write it completely off and Beirut is still one of the very best cities I have ever visited!!!
Saying that, this doesn’t apply to Kuwait which is just a soulless sandy shithole.
I probably wasn’t clear LG, I wasnt saying write it off, more that I would (personally) prefer to us steer clear from intervention where possible as it’s such a complex situation - as has been proved in the past with the West supporting/funding groups that ultimately turn out to be more dangerous that those they were fighting against.
That being said, because of those same complex issues (many of which I and I presume most wont fully understand) I don’t necessarily agree with those that automatically point the finger at the US/West when intervention was considered appropriate.
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Ah ok I understand and I completely agree with your first paragraph.
The second though is definitely up for debate though and I, personally, am not always sure that trying to impose ‘Western’ values on some of these countries is always the right decision to be making.
Paul Anthony
Well-Known Member
Looks like it's all kicking off. Iran have responded by launching rockets at a US airbase in Iraq.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yep, all kicking off now. First the air strikes and now the plane crash (although this has not yet been confirmed to be related)
No doubt Boris will want to help Trump if it does go to war
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No doubt Boris will want to help Trump if it does go to war
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
probably not exclusively, but a huge part of it without doubt.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Some of the Iraqi native population didn't want the Iranians there - but they don't get heard so well
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tisza
Well-Known Member
The overt threat could be over.
Iran's control of its domestic media & Internet censorship means it can claim honour served with the "death" of 80 Americans.
Iran knows it can't fight an overt war with the US and its leadership is aware of the potential consequences of engaging in a war with the US.
Will probably increase its efforts of destabilising (or promoting its interests) in the likes of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon.
Iran's control of its domestic media & Internet censorship means it can claim honour served with the "death" of 80 Americans.
Iran knows it can't fight an overt war with the US and its leadership is aware of the potential consequences of engaging in a war with the US.
Will probably increase its efforts of destabilising (or promoting its interests) in the likes of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There’s also the legacy of Agent Orange and other chemicals used in Vietnam and Laos. I was reading an article last year on it and there’s now grandchildren and great grandchildren being born with numerous birth defects directly attributed to the use of agent orange during the Vietnam war. Not just people from Vietnam and Laos either. The same trends are being witnessed in America in the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of American veterans who were exposed to it and exposed to it on a much smaller scale than the population of Vietnam and Laos.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Iran are walking on thin ice with the USA, last night could really escalate things
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I think Tisza might be right. Iran can say we've struck back, the Yanks can take it on the chin and play it down and it's back to business as usual, which is Iran and Saudi/Israel trying to fuck each other over with a whole host of other countries stuck in the middle.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Iran threatened Israel and even Dubai yesterday!