Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (205 Viewers)

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Going to be interesting to see how spain does now it’s starting to loosen some restrictions

Looks like they’ll still be more locked down than us. Just some factory workers and other jobs going in, lockdown still in place generally.

Anyone got any data on how many people are still working in each country? I get the impression a fair few still are here but it’s hard to tell beyond anecdotes.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
I highly doubt Labour would have pursued the herd immunity strategy which lost days. Maybe you shouldlook up some articles into the impact of even just one less day of social distancing. The Tories let this into the community and then let it spread.
The panel of experts oddly gave great weight to the nudge unit, so it wasn't necessarily epidemiologists giving all of this advice, it was a balance of expert opinion arranged to support herd immunity.
Fernando I don't have to read articles to know what one day of not social distancing can do, I'm appauled at how people went to pubs, relatives houses, walks in the countryside with other etc. the weekend when they were told to stay indoors. But it's whatiffery mate to suggest Labour would have initially done it differently. Speaking as a ife long red I'm more interested in stopping this thing before colleagues are put at risk or relatives die, rather than playing the blame game.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Looks like they’ll still be more locked down than us. Just some factory workers and other jobs going in, lockdown still in place generally.

Anyone got any data on how many people are still working in each country? I get the impression a fair few still are here but it’s hard to tell beyond anecdotes.

I don’t think there’s that many - industries have pretty much ground to a halt - Spain seems just to opening a couple of sectors. Some suggestions over 70’s are going to be asked to isolate for a year which is beyond reality
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Fernando I don't have to read articles to know what one day of not social distancing can do, I'm appauled at how people went to pubs, relatives houses, walks in the countryside with other etc. the weekend when they were told to stay indoors. But it's whatiffery mate to suggest Labour would have initially done it differently. Speaking as a ife long red I'm more interested in stopping this thing before colleagues are put at risk or relatives die, rather than playing the blame game.

Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.
The situation in the UK is more of a restriction of movement rather than an actual lockdown, IMO.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.
Shmmeee, I'm all for having debriefs after the fact to see what went wrong, where things can improve, and hold people to account if they broke rules, acted against advice , or ignored them for the wrong reasons. Hillsborough, Grenfield Tower, the 7/7 bombings - all a failure to act on intelligences or dynamically to a situation.

But the horse bolted weeks ago and I think we should be looking at the here and now and getting things right, rather than point scoring. Shortage of PPE is a current problem, lets bring the Gov to task on that, get it sorted now. Heads can roll over past mistakes and we can have our pound of flesh in due course.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.
The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative
You might be right. Tbh the public have been seeing what they want to for a while though, regardless of this. No sign that's likely to change.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative
Parliament will be virtually sitting so the government will have to answer questions now.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.
Bolloocks.
You only have to look at Grenfell and Windrush to see the watering down a delay brings.
They've been spinning instead of honest.
 

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Bolloocks.
You only have to look at Grenfell and Windrush to see the watering down a delay brings.
They've been spinning instead of honest.

“time to look forward”
“We need to move ahead”
“That’s why we’re doing x”

In my opinion the time to make some noise is now because these people are world class at whitewashing, revisionism and pretending it never happened the way you ‘thought’ it did. If it’s left to analyse after the event then we’ll be told for months how our heroic leaders “won the war” against coronavirus.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
See the sun have spoken to 2 experts on how long the lockdown should last....



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Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
I don’t like the guy but if he’s jogging around a park with nobody else anywhere near him, is that really such a terrible thing? I don’t know the specifics over there, aren’t you allowed out to exercise long as you observe the rules?

 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.

Far too sensible you need to froth and find some right wing twitter accounts and reflect that back on every member of society who doesn’t agree with a tiny number of people on here
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Toby Young gets his figures wrong. No one said 30 to 50 percent of people have been infected Patrick Vallance said 30 to 50 ov cases my be asymptomatic

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PVA

Well-Known Member
Toby Young gets his figures wrong. No one said 30 to 50 percent of people have been infected Patrick Vallance said 30 to 50 ov cases my be asymptomatic

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Toby Young gets most things wrong.

And by most things I mean everything.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Got your furlough money through yet?

Apparently it’s a loan, it relies on cash flow to qualify, it’s got vague rules and the government is going to introduce new rules for auditing

Actually no it’s fine
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Apparently it’s a loan, it relies on cash flow to qualify, it’s got vague rules and the government is going to introduce new rules for auditing

Actually no it’s fine

He didn't ask that. He asked if you'd had the money through yet, which by your failure to address the question is......no, you haven't.

Although I expect you'll be the first to receive it as you've been given special access to apply before the system is even fully set-up.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
He didn't ask that. He asked if you'd had the money through yet, which by your failure to address the question is......no, you haven't.

Although I expect you'll be the first to receive it as you've been given special access to apply before the system is even fully set-up.

Obviously not and also obviously a person claiming to have insider knowledge that there are hidden rules is lying through his teeth as he frequently does
 

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