Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (28 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

Yeah it should, hopefully we can get a great deal too

No deal is as good as the deal we currently have.

 

---

[Johhny Blue]

What’s your mum’s username

Grendel

 

[Astute]

Grendel

Your mother is short and argumentative?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Well this is brave if nothing else

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well this is brave if nothing else

It isn't brave, it is snide. What a c**t he is, NHS worship would be greater still if they wrongly administered drugs to him causing a painful death

 

[Ring Of Steel]

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But yet apparently all the PPE is in place, is ‘ineffective’ anyway and there’s nothing to apologise for

 

[Walsgrave]

Well this is brave if nothing else

I see, he's one of those 'consultants' that society puts on a pedestal. Scary thing is that because they get paid ridiculous money, people like him are probably getting the full whack of £2.5k a month and they're spending their time chatting shit about, in their eyes, NHS scum. The irony is that such people rely on the existence of problems in the NHS to actually justify their existence. It's why I disagree with the 80% of wages furlough policy as opposed to a flat rate/basic income - we're rewarding these people more for doing the same job (i.e. nothing) while the economy is down.

 

[chiefdave]

I see, he's one of those 'consultants' that society puts on a pedestal. Scary thing is that because they get paid ridiculous money, people like him are probably getting the full whack of £2.5k a month and they're spending their time chatting shit about, in their eyes, NHS scum.

Also seems to be plenty of replies agreeing with him.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I see, he's one of those 'consultants' that society puts on a pedestal. Scary thing is that because they get paid ridiculous money, people like him are probably getting the full whack of £2.5k a month and they're spending their time chatting shit about, in their eyes, NHS scum. The irony is that such people rely on the existence of problems in the NHS to actually justify their existence. It's why I disagree with the 80% of wages furlough policy as opposed to a flat rate/basic income - we're rewarding these people more for doing the same job (i.e. nothing) while the economy is down.

The Telegraph is full of people like him, it’s full of “experts”. The way that so much death is being normalised is repugnant

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The Telegraph is full of people like him, it’s full of “experts”. The way that so much death is being normalised is repugnant

 

[CCFCSteve]

Surely the medical experts should decide the frequency for changing PPE - not a bloody Health Minister.

Of course they should.....

‘The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, Royal College of Nursing and Royal College of Midwives have played a lead role in developing the guidance with member organisations providing practical input into the advice.
Professor Carrie MacEwen, Chair, Academy of Medical Royal Colleges said:
This is the combined result of experts in infection control working with front ine clinicians to provide the best guidance on the protection and safety of all healthcare staff, in any circumstances, based on scientific evidence; while taking into account the real-life clinical circumstances faced by staff and the concerns they have raised about their own, and their patients safety’

If ministers etc were saying ‘we aren’t paying for this’ or were refusing to do something that helped, then of course the blame would lie solely with them but in reality there will be hundreds, if not thousands of managers/admin involved to procure and distribute the equipment. It’s the same with the testing and Private Health England (PHE apparently not initially actively engaging with universities and private sector to help - was this under ministers direction or because they wanted to retain full control ? Who currently knows)

Questions can and will rightly be asked about adequate stockpiling (whether decisions were made for financial/austerity reasons etc etc) and whether supply chains were adequate or robust. no doubt ministers/Secretaries of State will ultimately carry the can, possibly rightly so, but there will also be a raft of people underneath that may or may not have done their jobs properly.

That’s not a defence of governments in general that’s just the real world.

 

[CCFCSteve]

But yet apparently all the PPE is in place, is ‘ineffective’ anyway and there’s nothing to apologise for

Hancock should’ve just apologised and said ‘we are doing everything we can to ensure no more lives are lost with more regular testing and better distribution of adequate PPE’ - not hard !

ps so much for going cold turkey and avoiding the thread. Have a good bank holiday Monday all

 

[David O'Day]

It isn't brave, it is snide. What a c**t he is, NHS worship would be greater still if they wrongly administered drugs to him causing a painful death

He's been a weird poor mans toby young for ages now.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Also seems to be plenty of replies agreeing with him.

There’s never a shortage of twats.

 

[Sick Boy]

I thought that was satire at first.

 

[skybluetony176]

Trump coming in for more criticism. Direct from Anthony Fauci this time. Fauci confirms NY Times report Trump rebuffed social distancing advice

Sounds like Fauci’s time is coming to an end Trump retweets #FireFauci hashtag as he hits back at the head of the CDC | Daily Mail Online
Could be shooting himself in the foot, what would there be to stop Fauci blowing the lid off when he no longer has to answer to Trump.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Going to be interesting to see how spain does now it’s starting to loosen some restrictions

 

[PVA]

It's utterly insane that a man like Trump is one of the most powerful people in the world. Insane and scary.

 

[shmmeee]

The Telegraph became the Spectator which became the comment section of the Sun some time ago.

Nice bit of antisemitism front and centre there was well “(((globalists)))”.

 

[shmmeee]

Going to be interesting to see how spain does now it’s starting to loosen some restrictions

Looks like they’ll still be more locked down than us. Just some factory workers and other jobs going in, lockdown still in place generally.

Anyone got any data on how many people are still working in each country? I get the impression a fair few still are here but it’s hard to tell beyond anecdotes.

 

[RegTheDonk]

I highly doubt Labour would have pursued the herd immunity strategy which lost days. Maybe you shouldlook up some articles into the impact of even just one less day of social distancing. The Tories let this into the community and then let it spread.
The panel of experts oddly gave great weight to the nudge unit, so it wasn't necessarily epidemiologists giving all of this advice, it was a balance of expert opinion arranged to support herd immunity.

Fernando I don't have to read articles to know what one day of not social distancing can do, I'm appauled at how people went to pubs, relatives houses, walks in the countryside with other etc. the weekend when they were told to stay indoors. But it's whatiffery mate to suggest Labour would have initially done it differently. Speaking as a ife long red I'm more interested in stopping this thing before colleagues are put at risk or relatives die, rather than playing the blame game.

 

[Grendel]

Looks like they’ll still be more locked down than us. Just some factory workers and other jobs going in, lockdown still in place generally.

Anyone got any data on how many people are still working in each country? I get the impression a fair few still are here but it’s hard to tell beyond anecdotes.

I don’t think there’s that many - industries have pretty much ground to a halt - Spain seems just to opening a couple of sectors. Some suggestions over 70’s are going to be asked to isolate for a year which is beyond reality

 

[shmmeee]

Fernando I don't have to read articles to know what one day of not social distancing can do, I'm appauled at how people went to pubs, relatives houses, walks in the countryside with other etc. the weekend when they were told to stay indoors. But it's whatiffery mate to suggest Labour would have initially done it differently. Speaking as a ife long red I'm more interested in stopping this thing before colleagues are put at risk or relatives die, rather than playing the blame game.

Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.

 

[Sick Boy]

Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.

The situation in the UK is more of a restriction of movement rather than an actual lockdown, IMO.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Sorry this is naive. It buys into this myth that there is only one “scientific advice” and governments have no agency, which is nonsense.

The government response came as much from liberal ideology and contrarianism built into the heart of Johnson’s government as much as any medical advice. It’s pure deflection to claim it wouldn’t have been different with a different government. Even a different Tory government would’ve handled it differently.

It was widely reported that Johnson was anti lockdown, no other PM wouldn’t been making childish brags about seeing their mum or shaking hands with patients. And no left wing government would’ve had the right wing contrarian press giving support either.

It’s not political point scoring to point out how a government elected for its hot takes and contrarianism and lack of belief in facts and science took this attitude into a pandemic with potentially disastrous consequences.

We’ll see where we are in a year truth be told. There’s a chance the soft lockdown will result in no more deaths long run and a better economy, but it doesn’t look good so far.

Shmmeee, I'm all for having debriefs after the fact to see what went wrong, where things can improve, and hold people to account if they broke rules, acted against advice , or ignored them for the wrong reasons. Hillsborough, Grenfield Tower, the 7/7 bombings - all a failure to act on intelligences or dynamically to a situation.

But the horse bolted weeks ago and I think we should be looking at the here and now and getting things right, rather than point scoring. Shortage of PPE is a current problem, lets bring the Gov to task on that, get it sorted now. Heads can roll over past mistakes and we can have our pound of flesh in due course.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Oh dear

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Oh dear

Should they only be able to eat British foods like chicken tikka massala now?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.

The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh dear

It's only like any market in any of the far east, nothing in what I saw of that clip was alarming

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative

You might be right. Tbh the public have been seeing what they want to for a while though, regardless of this. No sign that's likely to change.

 

[David O'Day]

It's only like any market in any of the far east, nothing in what I saw of that clip was alarming

Yeah dom is not sure what he is looking at

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[David O'Day]

The narrative is being set now though, the public won't demand an inquiry because they'll not see the reason for it due to said narrative

Parliament will be virtually sitting so the government will have to answer questions now.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[wingy]

Despite being pretty lefty, I do have a lot of sympathy for the liberty argument too - I can fully understand why a democratic government would be nervous about in effect putting it's citizens under house arrest, and nervous about the social implications.

As Reg says however, the time to debrief is after all this. Even if decisions were wrong with the benefit of hindsight, the question is more how they were reached and if that was appropriate, than an absolute number count.

Bolloocks.
You only have to look at Grenfell and Windrush to see the watering down a delay brings.
They've been spinning instead of honest.