Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (108 Viewers)

[skybluesam66]

i do notice that despite Covid - the death rate from flu and pneumonia is still around 3x the death rate for Covid (See below - albeit a little out of date)

I guess that is why many who think they have the virus, have something more normal - but probably just as dangerous

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

ONS statistics out, grim reading and as it covered Easter weekend only provisional (registry offices not necessarily open).

 

[shmmeee]

Yep.. the likes of Goebbels would have filled his jack-boots with facebook & twitter accounts....

...and, with due respect, I'd suggest the Iraq WMD saga was a little bit more than classic PR & spin mate.

Ah I thought you were talking generally about New Labours use of spin. I’ll be honest I’m not into the ins and outs of Iraq (I was too busy getting pissed at Uni at the time), I see a lot of claims and counter claims, but will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

[skybluetony176]

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

ONS statistics out, grim reading and as it covered Easter weekend only provisional (registry offices not necessarily open).

Deaths overall in the U.K., not just Coronavirus recorded also makes grim reading and maybe a good indicator of the true amount of deaths due to Coronavirus. Number of people dying hits 20-year high

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah I thought you were talking generally about New Labours use of spin. I’ll be honest I’m not into the ins and outs of Iraq (I was too busy getting pissed at Uni at the time), I see a lot of claims and counter claims, but will bow to your greater knowledge.

Tony Blair presented a dressed up dossier on the immediate danger Saddam apparently presented to the world and it turned out to be a hypothetical piece of homework that some student did in Brazil IIRC. It was basically pure fiction. As we then found out when there was no WMD’s.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Deaths overall in the U.K., not just Coronavirus recorded also makes grim reading and maybe a good indicator of the true amount of deaths due to Coronavirus. Number of people dying hits 20-year high

Average that out over the year and it's 400k excess deaths.

 

[skybluetony176]

Average that out over the year and it's 400k excess deaths.

Difficult times. Hopefully it won’t come to that with lockdowns, social distancing etc keeping the averages down. You have to remember that what looks like could have been the peak is possibly been in that 4 week period, certainly we were on the upward trajectory during that period. Does show the importance of long term behaviour though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I do think there’s been a definite change in recent years to feeding people enough to stay in their bubble. When we all shared the same media we had some kind of shared truth that while still manipulated was at least shared. These days everyone’s got their own truth.

Campbell and co did what I’d call classic PR or spin rather than outright propaganda.

I agree, but I think social media and bots/algorithms have made that a lot easier because it keeps people in the bubble regarding recommendations etc. What we really need is an algorithm that links to the opposite view, not the same.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Tony Blair presented a dressed up dossier on the immediate danger Saddam apparently presented to the world and it turned out to be a hypothetical piece of homework that some student did in Brazil IIRC. It was basically pure fiction. As we then found out when there was no WMD’s.

It was like taking something one of us wrote on here and using it as expert opinion and basing policy on it. It was and forever shall be a massive scandal that should have seen people in prison.

 

[shmmeee]

Seems I’m not the only one with a hefty scepticism of that fake NHS account dude, this thread gives good reasons to err on the side of caution until something concrete is proven:

 

[Grendel]

It took 5 minutes to establish the NHS story was fabricated by a crank whose also it seems has been made aware that Yougov are a corrupt organisation sponsored by Cummings and that Rachel Riley is an evil anti Semite who would have had no issue if Jeremy Corbyn was murdered. He has a pathological hatred for Ms Riley stemming from her returning baby wear supplied from a company that had a pop up from a left wing organisation that i assume indulges this chap in his twaddle

 

[skybluesam66]

while there is no excuse for Government lies, this is not restricted to 1 party - remember the weapons of mass destruction ?

Think about people who you know who go into politics either locally or nationally - few of them would survive in large Corporations

 

[clint van damme]

Seems I’m not the only one with a hefty scepticism of that fake NHS account dude, this thread gives good reasons to err on the side of caution until something concrete is proven:

the problem is the government is being caught lying on a daily basis, herd immunity, PPE, testing etc. When that happens it's very easy to perpetrate stuff like this or even worse the crackpot 5G theory. It would be great if every fucker just stuck to the facts, wishful thinking I know.

 

[shmmeee]

while there is no excuse for Government lies, this is not restricted to 1 party - remember the weapons of mass destruction ?

Think about people who you know who go into politics either locally or nationally - few of them would survive in large Corporations

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

There is a talent in persuading people you should get a big salary

 

[shmmeee]

There is a talent in persuading people you should get a big salary

If you’re that good at it you will

 

[Nick]

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

Arse licking, networking, shite talking nonses. Often don't have a clue about the jobs people below them do.

 

[Nick]

Kath kidston gone tits up.

The high streets are going to be half closed by the time this is over.

 

[Nick]

Asda and Aldi introduce a rule to only pick stuff up if people are buying it. Bit late, have they only just realised?

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Wow that’s unbelievable

 

[chiefdave]

Remember that PPE from Turkey that was going to be here Sunday but was then 'delayed'?
Coronavirus: UK only formally asked Turkey for PPE shipment help on Sunday - after telling Britons it was on its way

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Dave your cough do you live near any factories that spew out dust , are you allergic to anything , I hear some of these plug in air fresheners can give you a cough

 

[David O'Day]

Dave your cough do you live near any factories that spew out dust , are you allergic to anything , I hear some of these plug in air fresheners can give you a cough

What are you dribbling bout

 

[fernandopartridge]

Asda and Aldi introduce a rule to only pick stuff up if people are buying it. Bit late, have they only just realised?

People should do that anyway, I was in Aldi last week and some scruffy fucker was picking up virtually every packet of something from the fridge. Why do you need to handle anything if you're not blind?

 

[wingy]

the problem is the government is being caught lying on a daily basis, herd immunity, PPE, testing etc. When that happens it's very easy to perpetrate stuff like this or even worse the crackpot 5G theory. It would be great if every fucker just stuck to the facts, wishful thinking I know.

Especially when they don't want to own any part of it

Take the double speak abound the Liverpool game yesterday.
What the hell does that crap mean?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

People should do that anyway, I was in Aldi last week and some scruffy fucker was picking up virtually every packet of something from the fridge. Why do you need to handle anything if you're not blind?

Not everybody who is visually impaired is blind

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Not everybody who is visually impaired is blind

yep look at Mr Magoo - he struggles for instance

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not everybody who is visually impaired is blind

I was using blind as a catch all term. This person wasn't mind as they were not examining it closely, just picking things up and putting them down again.

 

[shmmeee]

Asda and Aldi introduce a rule to only pick stuff up if people are buying it. Bit late, have they only just realised?

Hows that going to work when they stack half the stuff so you can’t see what it is without picking it up?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was using blind as a catch all term. This person wasn't mind as they were not examining it closely, just picking things up and putting them down again.

Understood

 

[djr8369]

It would if it was true....

I haven't had a chance to look into it but obviously the government has gotten PR agencies to perform dubious tasks on their behalf and have put out false narratives on social media before. That didn't have much of a negative effect so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

 

[djr8369]

I don’t think anything brings down governments much anymore. Can you imagine a chancellor quoting in the past saying his office wasn’t independent then the government continuing.

That's true. Trump and Brexit have damaged politics beyond repair. And yes, before anyone mentions it Iraq didn't help.

 

[chiefdave]

Hows that going to work when they stack half the stuff so you can’t see what it is without picking it up?

Speaking of stacking how are they getting it on the shelves without touching it?

 

[clint van damme]

I haven't had a chance to look into it but obviously the government has gotten PR agencies to perform dubious tasks on their behalf and have put out false narratives on social media before. That didn't have much of a negative effect so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

The problem is the government is now starting to challenge content on social media it considers counter productive and perhaps even dangerous during the pandemic which is fine.

However, during the general election when the fact check stuff came to light Raab said no one gives a toss about social media cut and thrust which really gave people a licence for this sort of thing

Its like when Gove made his we've had enough of experts comment.
There are consequence to this irresponsible rhetoric.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The problem is the government is now starting to challenge content on social media it considers counter productive and perhaps even dangerous during the pandemic which is fine.

However, during the general election when the fact check stuff came to light Raab said no one gives a toss about social media cut and thrust which really gave people a licence for this sort of thing

Its like when Gove made his we've had enough of experts comment.
There are consequence to this irresponsible rhetoric.

But it also gives a govt (or someone with dictatorial tendencies) to take that challenging of content and untruths and use it to crack down on dissidence rather than actual wrong information because it all depends on what the person in charge decides is wrong.